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Nevyn's spoilery DL reading thread And I won't be using tags

#1 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 05:39 PM

I won't go complete chapter by chapter.


Just impressions at various points as I go along.

Right now I am mostly through Chapter 3 or so.


Impressions so far ...

Prologue was a lot of fun. Some fun hints dropped. Kellanved frustrating Dancer is going to be a lot of fun in this book.

Was surprised how quickly he widened the sphere and brought in other characters. Dassem met right away, and already with a grievance against Dancer. And having already gotten it on with Ryllandaras.

Crimson Guard already introduced.

Loving the potential of some of the Li Heng mages ending up in the Guard ... that could be a fun story arc.

So far the pace of storytelling feels super fast compared to prior books, as it is all more or less one setting. A few different POVs, but still it feels far more condensed.

Really interesting what they are doing and implying with the elder gods and the Azath. If I am reading this right so far, it is a much clearer take on the Azath, as well as attributing more of a specific (and collective) WILL to the Azath than we have seen previously.

Thinking the Protectress has misunderstood the QoD's prophecy.

Still wondering how all of this will time out. Feels like big steps are being taken at a time where Kellanved does not have much organized support yet. Then again, maybe the prequels will visit Li Heng a couple different times ...
Tatts early in SH game: Hmm, so if I'm liberal I should have voted Nein to make sure I'm president? I'm not that selfish

Tatts later in SAME game: I'm going to be a corrupt official. I have turned from my liberal ways, and now will vote against the pesky liberals. Viva la Fascism.
When Venge's turn comes, he will get a yes from Mess, Dolmen, Nevyn and Venge but a no from the 3 fascists and me. **** with my Government, and i'll **** with yours
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#2 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 07:52 PM

I started typing out spoilers for Egwene and wow, it is amazing how much has been covered already.


The prologue was Kellanved (gives his name as Wu) and Dorin 's first meeting. They are competing for the same 'prize', a mysterious cave they are drawn to. Kellanved tricks Dancer into thinking he is stalking Kellanved, when Kellanved is in fact following. Inside is Gothos! and a certain Nacht. There is some fun conversation, and Kellanved comments on a tile reading Gothos is looking at. Eventually they leave the cave with the Nacht, and Dancer tries to kill Kellanved but is again fooled by an illusion. The cave seems to be an Azath (or associated with one), and at the end of the prologue Gothos has a conversation with it. It is implies that the Azath are manipulating events to get Kellanved and Dancer on a certain path.

This is a bit unclear in the prologue, but gets clearer later.

Dorin follows Kellanved (or, rather, goes to look for him) to Li Heng, it being the only major centre nearby. On the way, he finds a caravan that has been hit by Ryllandaras, and there is one warrior (and a little girl) alive. The warrior is badly hurt and claims to have fought with Ryllandaras all night. Dorin does not believe him, and goes to move on. The warrior (let's just call him, say, Dassem) demands help tending to the dead, and does not get it, vowing to avenge the insult.

Once inside, Dorin keeps trying to track and kill Wu, essentially out of pride for having been outsmarted. They both get involved with the underworld. Dorin has a rough start in the city, and an odd girl helps patch him up, something she has a habit of doing, but usually for birds of prey. She is the first one to name him Dancer after seeing him do his exercises.

From this point, rather a lot is going on, all sort of tied together by Dancer trying to both find work as an assassin and get even, and by Silk doing work for the Protectress on multiple fronts. Some highlights:

  • Ho, Silk, Mara, and Smokey all as mages serving the protectress.
  • Ho working on a potential prison for Ryllandaras
  • Silk investigating Dorin's assassinations, since the protectress forbids that.
  • Silk and others investigating a new cult to Hood, since that cult is forbidden. Dassem and the girl there again, as well as a priest. Dassem introduces himself to the mages as Death's Sword.
  • The protectress revealing that the Queen of Dreams told her that her killer would have the face of death or something like that.
  • The beginnings of a Kanese siege. Also, a delegation of Sword Dancers escorting someone in to negotiate for Itko Kan
  • Kanese "nightblade" assassins infiltrating the city.
  • The Crimson Guard (including prince Kazz) escorting a Ghiscari prince to the city, and then back out ... off to hunt Ryllandaras. The CG are already a known mercenary company. They have some duels with the Kanese outside the city walls.
  • Kellanved rumoured to be working for an underworld boss, also getting on the radar of the city's mages. And hints that he is snooping around.
  • And of course ... ELDER f'ing GODS. Nightchill camped outside the city, ends up communing with the Errant first and then K'rul. And by the sound of things, she is trying to figure out what the Azath are planning. They are referring to the Azath as their "cousins". And again, I could be completely misreading this.




Tatts early in SH game: Hmm, so if I'm liberal I should have voted Nein to make sure I'm president? I'm not that selfish

Tatts later in SAME game: I'm going to be a corrupt official. I have turned from my liberal ways, and now will vote against the pesky liberals. Viva la Fascism.
When Venge's turn comes, he will get a yes from Mess, Dolmen, Nevyn and Venge but a no from the 3 fascists and me. **** with my Government, and i'll **** with yours
1

#3 User is offline   Kartoolian Spider Squisher 

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 12:32 PM

The elder gods are Azathanai.

Also, did no one catch on that Iko=Shimmer.

This post has been edited by Kartoolian Spider Squisher: 27 February 2016 - 12:41 PM

There is a line before me that demarcates where you stop being treated as citizens and start being treated as soldiers. It is a line only I can see and I swear until all of you--once you cross it you have declared War. Against your city, against your government, and against Me. And make no mistake: I Love to fight Wars.

Ares, God of War
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#4 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 06:28 PM

View PostKartoolian Spider Squisher, on 27 February 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

The elder gods are Azathanai.


I know, but the exact relation to the houses was never particularly clear.

Quote

Also, did no one catch on that Iko=Shimmer.


Nope, had not caught that but it makes sense.
Tatts early in SH game: Hmm, so if I'm liberal I should have voted Nein to make sure I'm president? I'm not that selfish

Tatts later in SAME game: I'm going to be a corrupt official. I have turned from my liberal ways, and now will vote against the pesky liberals. Viva la Fascism.
When Venge's turn comes, he will get a yes from Mess, Dolmen, Nevyn and Venge but a no from the 3 fascists and me. **** with my Government, and i'll **** with yours
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#5 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 06:46 PM

Done Chapter 11 now.

Still enjoying the journey. Dorin going against his nature and working for Pung, and instead undermining a couple of the jobs feels a bit wrong for the character, but it moves the story forward.

Wu remains awesome. Building his kids army, doing cool things with illusions, and generally avoiding attention of the city mages.

The moment Wu, Dassem and Dorin arrive at the gate and encounter the guards and city mages is priceless.


The meeting of Ryllandaras and the Protectress is pretty cool, as well as some of the set up for shadow. It feels like ICE and SE are carefully coordinating the revelations in their two current series. A brief tease about Edgewalker. Wondering if we'll see the Protectress in Fall of Light.


Still waiting to see just what monsters the King is planning to unleash. His plans within the walls don't seem to be going so well.


Speaking of which, the nightblades have been planning to approach Dorin for some time now with no action. Does working for Pung really hide him that effectively? Waiting for that 'conversation' ....




Kindle says I am 56% done. Wow, this book is going fast.
Tatts early in SH game: Hmm, so if I'm liberal I should have voted Nein to make sure I'm president? I'm not that selfish

Tatts later in SAME game: I'm going to be a corrupt official. I have turned from my liberal ways, and now will vote against the pesky liberals. Viva la Fascism.
When Venge's turn comes, he will get a yes from Mess, Dolmen, Nevyn and Venge but a no from the 3 fascists and me. **** with my Government, and i'll **** with yours
0

#6 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 04:19 AM

Ok, when I started a reading thread, I think I overestimated the size of the book, and underestimated the time I would spend reading.


In other words, I have finished it.

By far the most enjoyable ICE book I have read.

Nice new little tidbits of information, a nice introduction to the characters without moving too fast, and he manages to do an origin story more or less while having it feel like a natural part of another story. Very nice and it leaves me looking forward to the rest of the series, something none of ICE's previous novels accomplished for me.

And as I mentioned earlier, there are some decent teasers in there tying in to what SE will be doing with Fall of Light.
Tatts early in SH game: Hmm, so if I'm liberal I should have voted Nein to make sure I'm president? I'm not that selfish

Tatts later in SAME game: I'm going to be a corrupt official. I have turned from my liberal ways, and now will vote against the pesky liberals. Viva la Fascism.
When Venge's turn comes, he will get a yes from Mess, Dolmen, Nevyn and Venge but a no from the 3 fascists and me. **** with my Government, and i'll **** with yours
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#7 User is offline   Andorion 

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 05:29 AM

View PostNevyn, on 28 February 2016 - 04:19 AM, said:

Ok, when I started a reading thread, I think I overestimated the size of the book, and underestimated the time I would spend reading.


In other words, I have finished it.

By far the most enjoyable ICE book I have read.

Nice new little tidbits of information, a nice introduction to the characters without moving too fast, and he manages to do an origin story more or less while having it feel like a natural part of another story. Very nice and it leaves me looking forward to the rest of the series, something none of ICE's previous novels accomplished for me.

And as I mentioned earlier, there are some decent teasers in there tying in to what SE will be doing with Fall of Light.


Same here. I finished way faster than I thought I would

The allusions to the Edur and the Liosan are very interesting. The Liosan are more militaristic because of an older model - Urusander's legion?

Also did Ho strike you as strange? I didn't understand the description of his D'ivers experiment
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#8 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 28 February 2016 - 05:34 AM

View PostAndorion, on 28 February 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

View PostNevyn, on 28 February 2016 - 04:19 AM, said:

Ok, when I started a reading thread, I think I overestimated the size of the book, and underestimated the time I would spend reading.


In other words, I have finished it.

By far the most enjoyable ICE book I have read.

Nice new little tidbits of information, a nice introduction to the characters without moving too fast, and he manages to do an origin story more or less while having it feel like a natural part of another story. Very nice and it leaves me looking forward to the rest of the series, something none of ICE's previous novels accomplished for me.

And as I mentioned earlier, there are some decent teasers in there tying in to what SE will be doing with Fall of Light.


Same here. I finished way faster than I thought I would

The allusions to the Edur and the Liosan are very interesting. The Liosan are more militaristic because of an older model - Urusander's legion?

Also did Ho strike you as strange? I didn't understand the description of his D'ivers experiment


Ho is a tricky one because he is mysterious to the main POV characters and does not have his own.

It is not what I would have expected them to do with Ho, but its a really cool take on the idea. Certainly explains a bit more of how Ho ends up betrayed by his aspects. Never really heard of each individual Divers gaining strength from the mere existence of the others, but he has been tinkering so maybe it is just a way he can use it.
Tatts early in SH game: Hmm, so if I'm liberal I should have voted Nein to make sure I'm president? I'm not that selfish

Tatts later in SAME game: I'm going to be a corrupt official. I have turned from my liberal ways, and now will vote against the pesky liberals. Viva la Fascism.
When Venge's turn comes, he will get a yes from Mess, Dolmen, Nevyn and Venge but a no from the 3 fascists and me. **** with my Government, and i'll **** with yours
0

#9 User is offline   Fid 

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 08:59 PM

One of Ho's experiments that Wu discovers seems to just shout Lar - which suggests that we have the source of the three-aspected Mage Awl-Thar-Lar from ROTCG.

Meeting one of the first Talons - in Baudin senior - was quite a nice link, and the development of the Talons will be worth waiting for.
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#10 User is offline   Egwene 

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 11:43 AM

Caught up with everyone and managed to read the book. Loved it :p

Thanks for keeping me supplied with morsels whilst I was still in the desert, Nevyn!!!!

I am thrilled that although the story obviously continues, we weren't left with an almighty cliff hanger. I am most curious about the girl... will she feature again? I hope so - I really liked her character. She is obviously able to use her birds as 'eyes'.

I don't think she appears in the main series... the only blind sorceress in the main series that I can think of is the Mare sea witch Ieleen and her eyes are not gauged out.

I love the idea that Ullara still lives and that she is still in touch with Cotillion.
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#11 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 04:20 AM

View PostNevyn, on 27 February 2016 - 06:28 PM, said:

View PostKartoolian Spider Squisher, on 27 February 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

The elder gods are Azathanai.


I know, but the exact relation to the houses was never particularly clear.

Quote

Also, did no one catch on that Iko=Shimmer.


Nope, had not caught that but it makes sense.



I had wondered if that was where Iko's storyline was going given what we knew of Shimmer's history. Wasn't surprised, liked the development.


View PostFid, on 29 February 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

One of Ho's experiments that Wu discovers seems to just shout Lar - which suggests that we have the source of the three-aspected Mage Awl-Thar-Lar from ROTCG.

Meeting one of the first Talons - in Baudin senior - was quite a nice link, and the development of the Talons will be worth waiting for.


Yeah, the growth of the Talons, the involvement with the Shadow Cult and the eventual conflict w the Claw is something I hope ICE digs into.

View PostEgwene, on 01 March 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

Caught up with everyone and managed to read the book. Loved it :thumbsup:

Thanks for keeping me supplied with morsels whilst I was still in the desert, Nevyn!!!!

I am thrilled that although the story obviously continues, we weren't left with an almighty cliff hanger. I am most curious about the girl... will she feature again? I hope so - I really liked her character. She is obviously able to use her birds as 'eyes'.

I don't think she appears in the main series... the only blind sorceress in the main series that I can think of is the Mare sea witch Ieleen and her eyes are not gauged out.

I love the idea that Ullara still lives and that she is still in touch with Cotillion.


Seconded. Interesting character with a lot of room for future stories.
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MARSHALL: So? I mauled Mayor Humdinger's face and set him on fire that one time and he was totally fine the next week.
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#12 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 12:57 PM

I would be surprised if he did. My impression was that the talons were a borderline cult dedicated to Dancer by the end, whereas the claw were the officiall assassins of the empire. I always assumed the conflict was a result of Laseen not tolerating a brotherhood of assassins within the empire that was no under her control.
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#13 User is offline   Giantblaze 

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 05:20 PM

View PostMorgoth, on 16 March 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

I would be surprised if he did. My impression was that the talons were a borderline cult dedicated to Dancer by the end, whereas the claw were the officiall assassins of the empire. I always assumed the conflict was a result of Laseen not tolerating a brotherhood of assassins within the empire that was no under her control.


In Deadhouse when Kulp, i think, finally questions who Baudin is they go on a talk about the Talon and Claw. I'm pretty sure Heboric explains them as the Talon worked outside of the empire, doing assassinations and what not, while the Claw worked internally (kind of like a secret police). He then goes on to talk about how first the Claw moved in silent and made the Talon deaths look like botched assignments but someone slipt up and it turned into an all out assassin war.
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#14 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 06:36 PM

View PostGiantblaze, on 16 March 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

View PostMorgoth, on 16 March 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

I would be surprised if he did. My impression was that the talons were a borderline cult dedicated to Dancer by the end, whereas the claw were the officiall assassins of the empire. I always assumed the conflict was a result of Laseen not tolerating a brotherhood of assassins within the empire that was no under her control.


In Deadhouse when Kulp, i think, finally questions who Baudin is they go on a talk about the Talon and Claw. I'm pretty sure Heboric explains them as the Talon worked outside of the empire, doing assassinations and what not, while the Claw worked internally (kind of like a secret police). He then goes on to talk about how first the Claw moved in silent and made the Talon deaths look like botched assignments but someone slipt up and it turned into an all out assassin war.



Yep.

Also, in NoK, Shadow cult assassins and/or former Talon, some of whom had infiltrated the Claw, were wiped out by Laseen's loyalist Claw.
PUST: Go forth, Hounds of Life! Go forth and do my bidding!
CHASE: (quietly) I dunno pups... he seems to be bidding us to hurt a bunch of people.
MARSHALL: So? I mauled Mayor Humdinger's face and set him on fire that one time and he was totally fine the next week.
CHASE: Good point. (louder) OK pups, Paw Patrol is on a roll!
PUST: WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN???
-The Malazan Book of the Paw Patrol
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