[Dr. Philodox]

Hi guys,

I had made a few notes while reading Memories of Ice recently and had meant to follow up on these. I have since read HoC and have made some good headway into MT.

• Are different Gods able to claim the souls of their adherents? So where does Hood fit into this? Is he just the guy who gets the souls that his peers didn't become attached to?
  
• Why do the Barghast need to put so much effort into keeping their dead spirits in check? Why does Hood not collect their souls?
  
• How was sorcery performed prior to K'rul creating the warrens? Is this explained later in the series?
  
• The Elder Gods should have slain Kallor from the start. He was an enormous tyrant and a dangerous adversary. It might have worked out better for everyone had they gone full combat mode on him from the start.
  
• Why did the T'lan Imass not concern themselves with Kallor's reign of terror? You'd think they'd have shown a little more interest in this matter considering that he was worse than most if not all Jaghut Tyrants (This is a fact we hear from K'rul).
  
• Spoiler

  The T'lan Imass may be boned (ahem) whether they live forever or are released to die; considering a Jaghut will be in charge of their souls.
  
  
• I really do enjoy Kallor in this book. A smug,decrepit,abrasive and calculating ass-hole; still able to best most warriors and not afraid to show it.I love how he boasts about how old he is (and is clearly lying) when surrounded by the likes of Rake and company - many of whom are far more ancient. I feel a little conflicted in liking him however considering the appalling massacre he committed.
  
• RathBurn is insane - she abandoned her God but doesn't waste time chastising Brood for not keeping his promise to Burn and killing them all?
  
• How could Toc not have regrets for joining the Tenescowri? He wasn't going to be any safer going into their midst. And he would face cannibalism as the only potential food source. Nice fellow, but much going on upstairs it seems.
  
• I was struck by how different the relationship between Emancipor and Bauchelain was in this book. I prefer Bauchelain's role as the uncaring employer, although I can see why this had to soften somewhat for the novels to work.

This post has been edited by Edmond Leonard: 24 February 2016 - 10:27 PM

[worry]

1. RAFO
2. Cuz they're jerks. And magic.
3. Yeah, it's explained.
4. Gods are inherently idiots. That's why they make worlds like ours.
5. The ritual, tunnel vision, Imass (esp T'lan) have a weird relationship w/ humans.
6. Maybe why they create the warren in the Mhybe's dream.
7. Massacre shmassacre. None of the ancients are innocent.
8. Yup.
9. Unknowable. He made it to Coral intact though.
10. We'll see what future novellas have in store in terms of filling the gaps.

[Dr. Philodox]

Dumbledude, on 24 February 2016 - 10:40 PM, said:

1. RAFO
2. Cuz they're jerks. And magic.
3. Yeah, it's explained.
4. Gods are inherently idiots. That's why they make worlds like ours.
5. The ritual, tunnel vision, Imass (esp T'lan) have a weird relationship w/ humans.
6. Maybe why they create the warren in the Mhybe's dream.
7. Massacre shmassacre. None of the ancients are innocent.
8. Yup.
9. Unknowable. He made it to Coral intact though.
10. We'll see what future novellas have in store in terms of filling the gaps.

Regarding point 6 - in fairness he did kill 7 million people to prove a point. I've yet to see evidence of a more evil act

[worry]

That's actually point 7. Your simple, easy-to-make mistake has invalidated your opinions for all time.

[Kanese S's]

Edmond Leonard, on 24 February 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:

Hi guys,

I had made a few notes while reading Memories of Ice recently and had meant to follow up on these. I have since read HoC and have made some good headway into MT.

• Are different Gods able to claim the souls of their adherents? So where does Hood fit into this? Is he just the guy who gets the souls that his peers didn't become attached to?
  
• Why do the Barghast need to put so much effort into keeping their dead spirits in check? Why does Hood not collect their souls?
  
• How was sorcery performed prior to K'rul creating the warrens? Is this explained later in the series?
  
• The Elder Gods should have slain Kallor from the start. He was an enormous tyrant and a dangerous adversary. It might have worked out better for everyone had they gone full combat mode on him from the start.
  
• Why did the T'lan Imass not concern themselves with Kallor's reign of terror? You'd think they'd have shown a little more interest in this matter considering that he was worse than most if not all Jaghut Tyrants (This is a fact we hear from K'rul).
  
• Spoiler

  The T'lan Imass may be boned (ahem) whether they live forever or are released to die; considering a Jaghut will be in charge of their souls.
  
  
• I really do enjoy Kallor in this book. A smug,decrepit,abrasive and calculating ass-hole; still able to best most warriors and not afraid to show it.I love how he boasts about how old he is (and is clearly lying) when surrounded by the likes of Rake and company - many of whom are far more ancient. I feel a little conflicted in liking him however considering the appalling massacre he committed.
  
• RathBurn is insane - she abandoned her God but doesn't waste time chastising Brood for not keeping his promise to Burn and killing them all?
  
• How could Toc not have regrets for joining the Tenescowri? He wasn't going to be any safer going into their midst. And he would face cannibalism as the only potential food source. Nice fellow, but much going on upstairs it seems.
  
• I was struck by how different the relationship between Emancipor and Bauchelain was in this book. I prefer Bauchelain's role as the uncaring employer, although I can see why this had to soften somewhat for the novels to work.

1. That's complicated and best answered by reading further.
2. Because Hood is lazy. Also their ancestors might be dead, but they're still Barghast and therefore probably more trouble than they're worth. And jerks. As mentioned.
3. Yes.
4. Yes, they should have. Gods are not infallible in this setting. Also, Anomander Rake should have poked him with Dragnipur upon first meeting him. And Caladan Brood should have crushed his skull. But they didn't. Because people make mistakes.
5. Because they're jerks.
6.Yes.
7. You should. He's a piece of shit. Definitely one of my top five most hated named characters.
8. Yes. People sometimes go insane. Even devoutly religious people.
9. He felt it had to be done. With Envy, he felt he stood out and was a huge target. With the Tenescowri, he was one among thousands. He did make it to Coral, after all. Envy is often unable to consider that not everyone is as capable or durable as she is.
10. Yes.

[Dr. Philodox]

Why does everyone think the Barghast spirits are jerks? How much of a jerk can they be when they are known to deliver warnings and advice to the tribes?

I guess my issue with Kallor is that I really want to root for him but stop myself because he doesn't deserve one inch of success. I can forgive him for killing Whiskeyjack, and even being a tyrant - to an extent - and would probably overlook him burning a few hundred people or so . To burn 7 million people by your own hand? That surpassed any reasonable?.. level of evil. Its pretty neat that i'm even conflicted about this in the first place!

Thats also a good point about Rake and company. Rake and his notions of justice, and he still manages to turn a blind eye to one of the biggest bastards that ever lived.

This post has been edited by Edmond Leonard: 27 February 2016 - 11:51 AM

[Andorion]

Regarding opinions of Kallor my advice is to RAFO. Rake didn't squish him as they needed his tactical expertise in the wars. I think. Not everything Rake does can be explained easily

[Kanese S's]

AbysmalSpreadsheet, on 27 February 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

Why does everyone think the Barghast spirits are jerks? How much of a jerk can they be when they are known to deliver warnings and advice to the tribes?

I guess my issue with Kallor is that I really want to root for him but stop myself because he doesn't deserve one inch of success. I can forgive him for killing Whiskeyjack, and even being a tyrant - to an extent - and would probably overlook him burning a few hundred people or so . To burn 7 million people by your own hand? That surpassed any reasonable?.. level of evil. Its pretty neat that i'm even conflicted about this in the first place!

Thats also a good point about Rake and company. Rake and his notions of justice, and he still manages to turn a blind eye to one of the biggest bastards that ever lived.

I guess I'm not really conflicted at all about Kallor. I hate the fucker.

As for the Barghast spirits being jerks, bit of a joke. But it would also explain why the Barghast are intent on keeping them under control.

[Dr. Philodox]

Zoolanderis Derake, on 24 February 2016 - 10:40 PM, said:

6. Maybe why they create the warren in the Mhybe's dream.

Come to think of it, is it ever explained just what Hood's motivation was for offering the Mhybe his eternal protection? Was he just being kind? Seems a little too generous to the T'lan Imass when you consider that they are his racial enemies and still not facing up to his embrace.

[lobo the wolfman]

AbysmalSpreadsheet, on 29 February 2016 - 09:50 PM, said:

Zoolanderis Derake, on 24 February 2016 - 10:40 PM, said:

6. Maybe why they create the warren in the Mhybe's dream.

Come to think of it, is it ever explained just what Hood's motivation was for offering the Mhybe his eternal protection? Was he just being kind? Seems a little too generous to the T'lan Imass when you consider that they are his racial enemies and still not facing up to his embrace.

Spoiler

The Jaghut as a whole are pragmatic, it could be a way for Hood to end the eternal conflict, by offering them a chance to move on, thus sparing what remains of his race.

[Dr. Philodox]

lobo the wolfman, on 18 March 2016 - 09:30 AM, said:

AbysmalSpreadsheet, on 29 February 2016 - 09:50 PM, said:

Zoolanderis Derake, on 24 February 2016 - 10:40 PM, said:

6. Maybe why they create the warren in the Mhybe's dream.

Come to think of it, is it ever explained just what Hood's motivation was for offering the Mhybe his eternal protection? Was he just being kind? Seems a little too generous to the T'lan Imass when you consider that they are his racial enemies and still not facing up to his embrace.

Spoiler

The Jaghut as a whole are pragmatic, it could be a way for Hood to end the eternal conflict, by offering them a chance to move on, thus sparing what remains of his race.

I like your thinking.