[iso9001]

Hi all,

I have been reading MT for quite a time (I am on 75%) and thanks to the TOR rereads, I was able to follow the book just fine altough people often told it was a complicated book. I admit, without TOR, I would be completely lost Amanda makes me feel "not alone" and Bill acts like a teacher for me

My questions are:

1) How the death of the Azath House leads to Hold of Death? Was the Hold of Death present while Azath was alive or did it just "come into life" after Azath's death?
2) Can we assume that all Holds are the results of the deaths of the Azaths?
3) How is Kettle getting back alive? How does that happen?
4) Do we get to know whether Gothos intended to keep the dead from travelling with his ice or was it unintended?
5) When do we get to know why Mael asked Gothos to freeze the time?
6) Brys doesn't tell the Ceda about Kettle's being dead and I believe it was intentional. But then he tells Ceda. Why did he change his mind?
7) In TOR, Bill says "Note as well that odd focus of the conversation on how chilly it is below the Fifth Wing. Remember when we’ve seen Bugg deal with cold before and you’ve got a good reason for the strange cold now in the tunnels" but I don't remember how Bugg dealt with cold before. Does anyone remember?

I admit I am not a fan of Tehol and Bugg but I am not also irritated of them. What I loved about this book is Trull and Rhulad. I also loved the Crimson Guard. I told you before that Return of the Crimson Guard book can be skipped but I definitely changed my mind after Iron Bars

Regards

This post has been edited by iso9001: 18 February 2016 - 02:17 PM

[Kanese S's]

iso9001, on 18 February 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

Hi all,

I have been reading MT for quite a time (I am on 75%) and thanks to the TOR rereads, I was able to follow the book just fine altough people often told it was a complicated book. I admit, without TOR, I would be completely lost Amanda makes me feel "not alone" and Bill acts like a teacher for me

My questions are:

1) How the death of the Azath House leads to Hold of Death? Was the Hold of Death present while Azath was alive or did it just "come into life" after Azath's death?
2) Can we assume that all Holds are the results of the deaths of the Azaths?
3) How is Kettle getting back alive? How does that happen?
4) Do we get to know whether Gothos intended to keep the dead from travelling with his ice or was it unintended?
5) When do we get to know why Mael asked Gothos to freeze the time?
6) Brys doesn't tell the Ceda about Kettle's being dead and I believe it was intentional. But then he tells Ceda. Why did he change his mind?
7) In TOR, Bill says "Note as well that odd focus of the conversation on how chilly it is below the Fifth Wing. Remember when we’ve seen Bugg deal with cold before and you’ve got a good reason for the strange cold now in the tunnels" but I don't remember how Bugg dealt with cold before. Does anyone remember?

I admit I am not a fan of Tehol and Bugg but I am not also irritated of them. What I loved about this book is Trull and Rhulad. I also loved the Crimson Guard. I told you before that Return of the Crimson Guard book can be skipped but I definitely changed my mind after Iron Bars

Regards

1. The two events are happening concurrently. The absence of the Hold of Death was due to a Jaghut ritual. The Azath predates this.
2. Interesting idea.
3. RAFO
4. RAFO
5. I believe partly he didn't want what happened there to be completely lost.
6. At first he was worried about Kettle, perhaps, but decides it's too important a detail to leave out.
7. RAFO

Tehol and Bugg I honestly am a big fan of. Trull and Rhulad provide quite a bit of drama in the most classical sense of the term.

Skipping Return of the Crimson Guard would be silly, I think. Some of my favorite parts of the series in there.

[iso9001]

Hi All,

I have finished the book

I have lots of questions tough most of them looks like to have RAFO answers but never the less Here is my grand list of questions and they have no particular order:


1) What happened to the scheme of Tehol, Shand and co.? Tehol's plan was always under cover and I didn't get the full extent of it. Also, what happened to the refugees that the Rat Catchers' Guild supposed to transfer? The whole plan seems so vague to me.
2) Why did Mael disguise himself? What was his purpose? Did he forget who he was or was he simply hiding?
3) I didn't understand what happened when Brys visited the Guardian. What was the Guardian guarding? And also what is the matter between Mael and the Guardian?
4) What is the significance of the names Brys memorized? It was transferred to Tehol so I guess we will see him again? ( Hopefully )
5) Killing a God looked so easy in this book. Maybe they should have done the same with CG? Just saying.
6) It wasn't clear who was speaking (or I don't remember at all) while shorning Trull. Was it Rhulad?
7) It looks like Hannan Mosag chained a sea God. So, there are more than one sea Gods right? (Mael is one and the other is the chained one)
8) Why did Mael ask Gothos to freeze the time? What was his purpose? I asked this before but I finished reading the book without finding the answer. Maybe the answer lays in other books?
9) When people were praying for Mael (such as Withal), was he hearing the prayers and not answering or was he not aware of the prayers?
10) Why did the Azath die? Because of all the strong souls thriving to get out?
11) I am having difficulties with the Wyval hiding in Udinaas. What was his purpose? What was he trying to achieve? Was his master Silchas and was he trying to reach him along with Wither?
12) Trull is blood-bound to Lilac. Then he binds himself with Onrack (if I am not mistaken). So, can we assume one can bind numerous people to himself?
13) I am sure not all Avowed are as strong as Iron Bars but a few hundred Avowed in Crimson Guard gives me goose bumps Just how strong is Crimson Guard?
14) What is the Errant exactly? Except for being a God I mean What was he aiming? Is he the same with Oponn?
15) What happened to Sheltatha Lore? Did she manage to get out or beaten by Wither and Wyval?
16) I am guessing the answer to how and why Kurald Emurlahn was shattered is RAFO, right?
17) It was said Letheras is the first founding stones of Malazan but since they are destroyed, I can't see how it happened
18) What happens when the Andii wraiths die?
19) What is Mosag's demon and what is he doing for Mosag?
20) There is a two headed bug travelling with Tehol but I don't what exactly it is
21) What happens when Mael's cry is heard around the world?
22) I wonder why Tarthenal Gods were thrown into Azath grounds and simply not killed? Was it because it was hard to kill them (As we see, even Ublala can kill one of them) or was it to feed the Azath?
23) What is the significance of Brys' finger that Feather Witch took?
24) So there are lots of matters unfinished such as Feather Witch, Seren's group, Udinaas's son, Withal and Sandalath, Tehol and his grand scheme and etc. In which book do we get know the rest?
25) What happens when Withal destroys CG's tent?
26) According to TOR, Knight of Knives is just after GotM but according to my list, it is after MT. So should I continue with NoK or Bonehunters? Besides, in the forum titles, KoK is after The Bonehunters. So, Bonehunters or Kok?

Thanks for your time.

Regards

This post has been edited by iso9001: 21 February 2016 - 04:01 PM

[Andorion]

iso9001, on 21 February 2016 - 03:05 PM, said:

Hi All,

I have finished the book

I have lots of questions tough most of them looks like to have RAFO answers but never the less Here is my grand list of questions and they have no particular order:


1) What happened to the scheme of Tehol, Shand and co.? Tehol's plan was always under cover and I didn't get the full extent of it. Also, what happened to the refugees that the Rat Catchers' Guild supposed to transfer? The whole plan seems so vague to me.
2) Why did Mael disguise himself? What was his purpose? Did he forget who he was or was he simply hiding?
3) I didn't understand what happened when Brys visited the Guardian. What was the Guardian guarding? And also what is the matter between Mael and the Guardian?
4) What is the significance of the names Brys memorized? It was transferred to Tehol so I guess we will see him again? ( Hopefully )
5) Killing a God looked so easy in this book. Maybe they should have done the same with CG? Just saying.
6) It wasn't clear who was speaking (or I don't remember at all) while shorning Trull. Was it Rhulad?
7) It looks like Hannan Mosag chained a sea God. So, there are more than one sea Gods right? (Mael is one and the other is the chained one)
8) Why did Mael ask Gothos to freeze the time? What was his purpose? I asked this before but I finished reading the book without finding the answer. Maybe the answer lays in other books?
9) When people were praying for Mael (such as Withal), was he hearing the prayers and not answering or was he not aware of the prayers?
10) Why did the Azath die? Because of all the strong souls thriving to get out?
11) I am having difficulties with the Wyval hiding in Udinaas. What was his purpose? What was he trying to achieve? Was his master Silchas and was he trying to reach him along with Wither?
12) Trull is blood-bound to Lilac. Then he binds himself with Onrack (if I am not mistaken). So, can we assume one can bind numerous people to himself?
13) I am sure not all Avowed are as strong as Iron Bars but a few hundred Avowed in Crimson Guard gives me goose bumps Just how strong is Crimson Guard?
14) What is the Errant exactly? Except for being a God I mean What was he aiming? Is he the same with Oponn?
15) What happened to Sheltatha Lore? Did she manage to get out or beaten by Wither and Wyval?
16) I am guessing the answer to how and why Kurald Emurlahn was shattered is RAFO, right?
17) It was said Letheras is the first founding stones of Malazan but since they are destroyed, I can't see how it happened
18) What happens when the Andii wraiths die?
19) What is Mosag's demon and what is he doing for Mosag?
20) There is a two headed bug travelling with Tehol but I don't what exactly it is
21) What happens when Mael's cry is heard around the world?
22) I wonder why Tarthenal Gods were thrown into Azath grounds and simply not killed? Was it because it was hard to kill them (As we see, even Ublala can kill one of them) or was it to feed the Azath?
23) What is the significance of Brys' finger that Feather Witch took?
24) So there are lots of matters unfinished such as Feather Witch, Seren's group, Udinaas's son, Withal and Sandalath, Tehol and his grand scheme and etc. In which book do we get know the rest?
25) What happens when Withal destroys CG's tent?
26) According to TOR, Knight of Knives is just after GotM but according to my list, it is after MT. So should I continue with NoK or Bonehunters? Besides, in the forum titles, KoK is after The Bonehunters. So, Bonehunters or Kok?

Thanks for your time.

Regards

1. RAFO
2. Basically he was tired of being a God. He took some time off and ended up with Tehol
3.The Guardian was guarding the names of all the old forgotten gods. He was angry at Mael as this was part of Maels job which he was no longer doing.
4. RAFO
5. More complicated
6. Probably
7. Not really a sea god. More local I think, I don't remember
8. Don't remember
9. Probably hearing, but it took some time to get him out of his non-interventionist stance. Tehol's near-death was the crucial factor
10. The Azath was extremely old. They have expiration dates
11. You got it right
12. Possibly. I don't think he was bound to Onrack
13. Can't say without spoiling. Read RotCG (not now though)
14. Elder God. A bit different from Oponn. More to be explained so RAFO
15. RAFO
16. Sort of one of the ultimate RAFOs
17. What?
18. Don't remember this reference. If you meant those stuck in dragon blood and so on, aren't they already dead?
19. Which one?
20. RAFO
21. A number of major players become aware that Mael is active once again
22. Were they thrown?
23. RAFO RG
24. Same as above
25. I think the CG loses a bit of his power, though temporarily
26. Reading NoK before TBH lets you identify a character who turns up in TBH. Its a very short book, a novella so you could easily read it before TBH

[iso9001]

Very quick, nice and elegant answers, thank you Andorion.


As for the vague articles:

8) I seriously wonder about this tough Kanese answered it as RAFO. I think I should wait
12) He bound Onrack to him in order to save his life (AFAIK), not the other way around. But the point is binding more than one entity to yourself.
17) I am not sure how to explain so let's pass this
18) Andii wraiths are trapped due to Gothos' ritual (I believe the ritual prevented The Hold of Death manifesting itself in that particular area) and are serving to Edur. But they are also obliterated by Letherii magic. What happens to those wraiths who are destroyed?
19) The one Ceda had hard time luring out. To add one more, how did Mosag bind him to his command?
22) Well, that was a reference to Kettle's killing people and throwing them to Azath ground So, if they were dead before they are given to Azath, how is that they can get out alive?
23) NoK then, thank you very much

Regards

[Andorion]

iso9001, on 21 February 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

Very quick, nice and elegant answers, thank you Andorion.


As for the vague articles:

8) I seriously wonder about this tough Kanese answered it as RAFO. I think I should wait
12) He bound Onrack to him in order to save his life (AFAIK), not the other way around. But the point is binding more than one entity to yourself.
17) I am not sure how to explain so let's pass this
18) Andii wraiths are trapped due to Gothos' ritual (I believe the ritual prevented The Hold of Death manifesting itself in that particular area) and are serving to Edur. But they are also obliterated by Letherii magic. What happens to those wraiths who are destroyed?
19) The one Ceda had hard time luring out. To add one more, how did Mosag bind him to his command?
22) Well, that was a reference to Kettle's killing people and throwing them to Azath ground So, if they were dead before they are given to Azath, how is that they can get out alive?
23) NoK then, thank you very much

Regards

12. The two bindings maybe different in nature, also post-shorning Trull maybe a different person magic-legally speaking (total speculation)
17. If you are referring to Lether and the First Empire I think its RAFO
18. I believe they are totally obliterated as in nothing remains
19. This is the undersea demon? He got the name from the list the Guardian was guarding. That was why Brys was sent.
22. Kettle kills normal people and throws them into the grounds to feed the Azath and help it to survive. The Tarthenal Gods were imprisoned in ancient times. Totally different.

[iso9001]

Thank you Andorion,

On towards NoK

Regards

[Kanese S's]

iso9001, on 21 February 2016 - 03:05 PM, said:

Hi All,

I have finished the book

I have lots of questions tough most of them looks like to have RAFO answers but never the less Here is my grand list of questions and they have no particular order:


1) What happened to the scheme of Tehol, Shand and co.? Tehol's plan was always under cover and I didn't get the full extent of it. Also, what happened to the refugees that the Rat Catchers' Guild supposed to transfer? The whole plan seems so vague to me.
2) Why did Mael disguise himself? What was his purpose? Did he forget who he was or was he simply hiding?
3) I didn't understand what happened when Brys visited the Guardian. What was the Guardian guarding? And also what is the matter between Mael and the Guardian?
4) What is the significance of the names Brys memorized? It was transferred to Tehol so I guess we will see him again? ( Hopefully )
5) Killing a God looked so easy in this book. Maybe they should have done the same with CG? Just saying.
6) It wasn't clear who was speaking (or I don't remember at all) while shorning Trull. Was it Rhulad?
7) It looks like Hannan Mosag chained a sea God. So, there are more than one sea Gods right? (Mael is one and the other is the chained one)
8) Why did Mael ask Gothos to freeze the time? What was his purpose? I asked this before but I finished reading the book without finding the answer. Maybe the answer lays in other books?
9) When people were praying for Mael (such as Withal), was he hearing the prayers and not answering or was he not aware of the prayers?
10) Why did the Azath die? Because of all the strong souls thriving to get out?
11) I am having difficulties with the Wyval hiding in Udinaas. What was his purpose? What was he trying to achieve? Was his master Silchas and was he trying to reach him along with Wither?
12) Trull is blood-bound to Lilac. Then he binds himself with Onrack (if I am not mistaken). So, can we assume one can bind numerous people to himself?
13) I am sure not all Avowed are as strong as Iron Bars but a few hundred Avowed in Crimson Guard gives me goose bumps Just how strong is Crimson Guard?
14) What is the Errant exactly? Except for being a God I mean What was he aiming? Is he the same with Oponn?
15) What happened to Sheltatha Lore? Did she manage to get out or beaten by Wither and Wyval?
16) I am guessing the answer to how and why Kurald Emurlahn was shattered is RAFO, right?
17) It was said Letheras is the first founding stones of Malazan but since they are destroyed, I can't see how it happened
18) What happens when the Andii wraiths die?
19) What is Mosag's demon and what is he doing for Mosag?
20) There is a two headed bug travelling with Tehol but I don't what exactly it is
21) What happens when Mael's cry is heard around the world?
22) I wonder why Tarthenal Gods were thrown into Azath grounds and simply not killed? Was it because it was hard to kill them (As we see, even Ublala can kill one of them) or was it to feed the Azath?
23) What is the significance of Brys' finger that Feather Witch took?
24) So there are lots of matters unfinished such as Feather Witch, Seren's group, Udinaas's son, Withal and Sandalath, Tehol and his grand scheme and etc. In which book do we get know the rest?
25) What happens when Withal destroys CG's tent?
26) According to TOR, Knight of Knives is just after GotM but according to my list, it is after MT. So should I continue with NoK or Bonehunters? Besides, in the forum titles, KoK is after The Bonehunters. So, Bonehunters or Kok?

Thanks for your time.

Regards

1. You'll see.
2. Even Elder Gods need hobbies.
3. The Guardian is guarding the names of the forgotten gods. Also he's underwater. And Mael is the Elder God of the sea.
4. Sorta goes that as long as their names are remembered by someone, these gods aren't completely gone.
5. God killing is an unpredictable business. It also reeeeally depends on the god and how completely there they are in any one place at any one time.
6. It isn't supposed to be.
7. There are several. Mael is the oldest and bestest.
8. >.>
9. A little of column A, a little of column B.
10. Everything dies, eventually. I don't know this particular Azath's precise age, but it makes sense that if they can be born as they are in GotM, then they can also eventually wither and die. In GotM we see a brand new baby Azath house, and in MT we see one at the end of its 'life cycle.'
11. Yes.
12. Yes. Is he blood bound to Onrack? I mean, you can be blood brothers with multiple people, right? I'm not sure how that works. What are the rules of blood brothers? Are there rules?
13. Pretty strong. They were the most capable force that the Malazans encountered in their conquest of Quon Tali, if I recall correctly. "A few hundred avowed" sounds like a lot, but in this series you regularly see armies of thousands (though I should point out that not all Crimson Guard are avowed; the avowed are their elite core). Also, the Malazans have the "old guard," sort of their own set of heavy hitters. The Crusts, Tayschrenn (at one time joined by High Mages Nightchill, Bellurden, and Akaronys), Laseen, etc. (and of course, during the period of conquest, they also had Dancer, an assassin of great notoriety, and Kellenved himself, who was a very impressive mage). But yes, Iron Bars is pretty badass. Quite a few of the avowed are.
14. A douchebag. But yes, sort of a precursor to Oponn.
15. <.<
16. Yes.
17. Where does it say that?
18. Best not to think about, I suppose.
19. Running errands. Do you mean the forgotten minor sea god?
20. It's a two headed bug. It's a bug. It has two heads, which is weird enough that Tehol finds it interesting.
21. Other ascendants take notice.
22. Both. Also it's worth mentioning that the Azath preserves. Even if you're near death, if you're thrown into one, you won't die as long as you're in there. This means that eventually you'll heal a bit as your body ever so slowly mends its injuries. As to why they're killable now... well, often the hoary old ancient terrors aren't actually as much more powerful than modern entities as they think. Also they hadn't fought anyone in thousands of years, so maybe their skills were a little rusty.
23. You'll see.
24. RG mostly.
25. Presumably the CG is unhappy. Also I thought it was Mael that did that.
26. Night of Knives. It's a fun short book, doesn't really spoil anything for Bonehunters, and explains some stuff from earlier books in a bit more detail. Also takes place in a setting that appears again in Bonehunters. I think it works better before.

[iso9001]

Nice answers Kanese, thank you very much.

Regards