[Andorion]

iso9001, on 18 January 2016 - 03:25 PM, said:

Hi all,

I have finally finished MoI It all went fine until last chapter but that last chapter was a little bit disappointment for me or I failed to understand what was happening. I hope it is the latter

Here are my questions:

1) Why did ghosts appear and then annihilate the Dogslayers? Was it Raraku's doing? What were its motives?
2) So, were Claw members just waiting out of the Whirlwind so when Goddess released it they went in and started assasinations?
3) What was Lostara'a mission given by Cotillion?
4) Pearl's mission was to find Felisin but he also assasinated people. So he ran into a bad guy and decided to take him off while he had spare time?
5) Where and why did Reloe go with the help of Bidithal?
6) Heboric was able to block Karsa before with his Ghost Hands. I wonder if he still can?
7) Ammanas was shocked with the fact the two hounds of darkness were released. And Karsa killed them.! Well, IDK what Ammanas had in his mind but Karsa's killing of two hounds might give Ammanas a heart attack
8) Cutter says something happened to him? What happened?
9) Was Tavore's plan to use Korbolo's Dogslayers to kill the enemy from inside?
10) I always thought Whirlwind Goddess was in the fragment of Kurald Emurlahn but it seems she wants it for herself. So where was she? Why do people want this fragment for themselves? What will they gain?
11) So Goddess is Imass and in fact Onrack's wife who was betrayed by Onrack. So how did she become a Goddess? How is she affecting Sha'ik? If she doesn't own the warren, from where do her powers come from?
12) Is Raraku being filled with water again? Why?
13) At the end of the book Raraku rises to claim the shattered warren. What does that mean?
14) What is children of Kilava?
15) I'm not clear why the two dogs (Bent and the other one) and the mare (Duiker's) helped bring the spirits of the slain to Raraku's heart?
16) I am going to start Midnight Tides. Any other suggestion before MT?

Also, too may disappointments for me with the ending. Here is the list:

1) The song told Fiddler that he must kill or aid Kalam kill the Goddess but AFAIK Talon killed her. This was a disappointment for me.
2) Kalam and QB came out of a warren after Fiddler was saved by Hedge. What were they doing? Hiding? If so, why?
3) I like Karsa and his development but his level of power (killing the hounds close enough to easily) makes me feel uncomfortable. Do you feel the same?
4) After the cold iron / hot iron talk, people said "Leoman this" and "Leoman that" but we couldn't see much of him.
5) I kind of think the relation between Onrack and Trull is imbalanced. Not enough time was spent and nothing special happened between them but they are like blood brothers. I am having hard time reading their parts. What about you?
6) No war at all? Well I am happy that most of the army survived but I hoped more action

Regards

Reading your questions makes me realize that for some unknown reason I have forgotten huge parts of HoC. Nevertheless I will try to answer those I am not totally blanking on

1. The ghosts were the memories of Raraku, yes
2. Yep, I think
6. Regarding Heborics hands RAFO
7. Yup, especially as the Hounds were so very powerful
12+13. Raraku was once an inland sea. With the resurrection of its memories the sea rises again and the shattered warren becomes part of raraku
14. Kilava is the sister of Onos Toolan. Children RAFO
15. The Chain of Dogs was an epic event that resonated throughout Seven Cities and gained its own worshippers. Worship has power. The unquiet dead of the Chain thus lingered. The two dogs Bent and Roach were the only survivors of the Chain to return and the ghosts followed them. They wanted vengeance on the Dogslayers
16. MT: Total change of scene, plot, characters. Be warned, its jarring. Hold on, ask questions, read carefully. The payoff is huge

Ending
3. Karsa is supposed to make you feel uneasy. That is the reaction he evokes from everybody. Regarding his power, RAFO a bit, we can discuss him in detail later
4. Leoman RAFO
5. It will help once you find out more about Trull. Ask this question again at the end of Bonehunters
6. Future Fighting - if any - RAFO

[Abyss]

iso9001, on 18 January 2016 - 03:25 PM, said:

1) Why did ghosts appear and then annihilate the Dogslayers? Was it Raraku's doing? What were its motives?

Raraku woke up and decided that it was tired of being controlled by the Whirlwind Goddess and didn't feel like letting the CG take over.

It called up its dead ghosts to take out the Dogslayer army, but a few other elements were drawn in as well.

Quote

2) So, were Claw members just waiting out of the Whirlwind so when Goddess released it they went in and started assasinations?

No. That was Pearl.

But the threat of lurking Claw is voiced a few times because that's a known Malazan tactic used in 7C.

Quote

3) What was Lostara'a mission given by Cotillion?

There are these people running around calling themselves Talon. I made the Talon, I pretty much wiped out the Talon, so find out what these bogus Talon are up to for me.

Quote

4) Pearl's mission was to find Felisin but he also assasinated people. So he ran into a bad guy and decided to take him off while he had spare time?

Yes, bcs he's still a Claw and wanted the karma with Laseen.

Quote

5) Where and why did Reloe go with the help of Bidithal?

Not sure what you mean. Maybe sending agents to stab the Whirlwind Goddess in the head?

Quote

8) Cutter says something happened to him? What happened?

What hasn't?

Quote

9) Was Tavore's plan to use Korbolo's Dogslayers to kill the enemy from inside?

No. That was Dom's plan.

Tavore was counting on Raraku rising up.

Quote

10) I always thought Whirlwind Goddess was in the fragment of Kurald Emurlahn but it seems she wants it for herself. So where was she? Why do people want this fragment for themselves? What will they gain?

Yes she was. Yes she did. In it - it's Raraku but has evolved. Power. Power.

Quote

11) So Goddess is Imass and in fact Onrack's wife who was betrayed by Onrack. So how did she become a Goddess? How is she affecting Sha'ik? If she doesn't own the warren, from where do her powers come from?

Yes. Time patience and eating weaker spirits. Exactly how it seemed. Herself, and she was controlling Raraku so she had that too.

Quote

12) Is Raraku being filled with water again? Why?

Just part of it. Because it used to be a sea and decided to go retro.

Quote

13) At the end of the book Raraku rises to claim the shattered warren. What does that mean?

It absorbed the Whirlwind warren into itself.

Quote

14) What is children of Kilava?

Either Kilava is some sort of primal Eve for the human race, or the Whirlwind Goddess is batshite crazy.

Quote

15) I'm not clear why the two dogs (Bent and the other one) and the mare (Duiker's) helped bring the spirits of the slain to Raraku's heart?

The two dogs were the only survivors of the entire Chain, falling at Coltaine's feet when he was crucified. There's power in that kind of symbolism.

Duiker rode that horse through the entire Chain, not as impressive as the dogs, but still significant.

Quote

16) I am going to start Midnight Tides. Any other suggestion before MT?

No.

Quote

Also, too may disappointments for me with the ending. Here is the list:

1) The song told Fiddler that he must kill or aid Kalam kill the Goddess but AFAIK Talon killed her. This was a disappointment for me.

What are you referring to?

Quote

2) Kalam and QB came out of a warren after Fiddler was saved by Hedge. What were they doing? Hiding? If so, why?

QB rejoined Kalam in the camp via his acorn link, and they dropped off Dom for the Malazans and then went to find Fid.

Quote

3) I like Karsa and his development but his level of power (killing the hounds close enough to easily) makes me feel uncomfortable. Do you feel the same?

No.

Quote

4) After the cold iron / hot iron talk, people said "Leoman this" and "Leoman that" but we couldn't see much of him.

The first ambush and the raids were all him.

Quote

5) I kind of think the relation between Onrack and Trull is imbalanced. Not enough time was spent and nothing special happened between them but they are like blood brothers. I am having hard time reading their parts. What about you?

I enjoyed the hell out of their parts and bought the weay their brotherhood evolved. Onrack thrived on Trull's empathy.

Quote

6) No war at all? Well I am happy that most of the army survived but I hoped more action

You got that in the three previous books, here SE gave us something different.

Don't worry tho, just RAFO.

[iso9001]

Thank you Andorion and Abyss, you cleared lots of things for me.

While reading the books, I develop some expectations. When those are not met, I feel unsatisfied at first. But then I come here and tell you guys how I feel and you show me the other way (like there were wars in previous 3 books and this book doesn't have as much). That way, I can see your points and can continue all satisfied. If it weren't for you guys, I most possibly wouldn't enjoy this epic series as much as I do now. So thank you all again.

Regards

[Gorefest]

iso9001, on 18 January 2016 - 03:25 PM, said:

16) I am going to start Midnight Tides. Any other suggestion before starting?

Also, too may disappointments for me with the ending. Here is the list:

1) The song told Fiddler that he must kill or aid Kalam kill the Goddess but AFAIK Talon killed her. This was a disappointment for me. 2) Kalam and QB came out of a warren after Fiddler was saved by Hedge. What were they doing? Hiding? If so, why?
3) I like Karsa and his development but his level of power (killing the hounds close enough to easily) makes me feel uncomfortable. Do you feel the same?
4) After the cold iron / hot iron talk, people said "Leoman this" and "Leoman that" but we couldn't see much of him.
5) I kind of think the relation between Onrack and Trull is imbalanced. Not enough time was spent and nothing special happened between them but they are like blood brothers. I am having hard time reading their parts. What about you?
6) No war at all? Well I am happy that most of the army survived but I hoped more action

I'll skip most of the questions as Andorion and Abyss already said it all. This last bit, though:

16) Just brace yourself for another character deluge. It will be the last big one. Remember that HoC ends with Trull starting to tell his story to Onrack; MT basically is that story. So where book 1 and 3 followed one set of cast members and book 2 and 4 another set, MT will introduce to you the final set of important cast members before everything start to get tied together. So don't feel disheartened at first when everything looks odd or unconnected, just trust in Erikson.

1) i think you have missed the idea of what the song actually was. Remember that Tanno spirit walker from DG?
2) making a drop-off
3) can't say I do. Why would it be uncomfortable?
4) Apart from all his military prowess and harrassing the malazan army? Plus, he's not dead or captured
5) i thought the way their relationship developed was beautifully structured. Trull who is very forthcoming with the gift of empathy and who is immensely compassionate, versus Onrack who has lost all his emotions and empathy in the Ritual. Both cut off (shorn) from their people. Both with lots of emotional baggage and losses, with Trull feeling deeply for Onrack's losses and Onrack slowly starting to feed of Trull's emotions to realise what he (and the Imass as a people) lost. It's powerful stuff. And it is not over yet, lots of books to come.
6) how bloodthirsty. Don't worry, still plenty of action to come. The 'anticlimax' is actually the whole point of the book, it's a theme running through this whole installment. Each book is but a chapter in a larger story, and lots of the events in HoC are merely a setup for larger things to come.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 18 January 2016 - 07:03 PM

[iso9001]

Thank you Gorefest,


I am not actually bloodthirsty and I was also happy that not many people died. It was just my expectations (which was risen by Erikson himself ) and after reading your comments I also thought this ending was just appropriate and fine.

When I read the dramatis personae, I saw that there were lots of new chars. At first, I was intimidated but then I realized it would be good to trust Erikson and enjoy this new world. I also trust in you guys Therefore, let the epic story continue

Regards

[Andorion]

iso9001, on 19 January 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

Thank you Gorefest,

I am not actually bloodthirsty and I was also happy that not many people died. It was just my expectations (which was risen by Erikson himself ) and after reading your comments I also thought this ending was just appropriate and fine.

When I read the dramatis personae, I saw that there were lots of new chars. At first, I was intimidated but then I realized it would be good to trust Erikson and enjoy this new world. I also trust in you guys Therefore, let the epic story continue

Regards

In many ways HoC is a book meant for setup. A lot of major future events are initiated here. Read on and you will find out

[Kanese S's]

iso9001, on 18 January 2016 - 03:25 PM, said:

Hi all,

I have finally finished MoI It all went fine until last chapter but that last chapter was a little bit disappointment for me or I failed to understand what was happening. I hope it is the latter

Here are my questions:

1) Why did ghosts appear and then annihilate the Dogslayers? Was it Raraku's doing? What were its motives?
2) So, were Claw members just waiting out of the Whirlwind so when Goddess released it they went in and started assasinations?
3) What was Lostara'a mission given by Cotillion?
4) Pearl's mission was to find Felisin but he also assasinated people. So he ran into a bad guy and decided to take him off while he had spare time?
5) Where and why did Reloe go with the help of Bidithal?
6) Heboric was able to block Karsa before with his Ghost Hands. I wonder if he still can?
7) Ammanas was shocked with the fact the two hounds of darkness were released. And Karsa killed them.! Well, IDK what Ammanas had in his mind but Karsa's killing of two hounds might give Ammanas a heart attack
8) Cutter says something happened to him? What happened?
9) Was Tavore's plan to use Korbolo's Dogslayers to kill the enemy from inside?
10) I always thought Whirlwind Goddess was in the fragment of Kurald Emurlahn but it seems she wants it for herself. So where was she? Why do people want this fragment for themselves? What will they gain?
11) So Goddess is Imass and in fact Onrack's wife who was betrayed by Onrack. So how did she become a Goddess? How is she affecting Sha'ik? If she doesn't own the warren, from where do her powers come from?
12) Is Raraku being filled with water again? Why?
13) At the end of the book Raraku rises to claim the shattered warren. What does that mean?
14) What is children of Kilava?
15) I'm not clear why the two dogs (Bent and the other one) and the mare (Duiker's) helped bring the spirits of the slain to Raraku's heart?
16) I am going to start Midnight Tides. Any other suggestion before MT?

Also, too may disappointments for me with the ending. Here is the list:

1) The song told Fiddler that he must kill or aid Kalam kill the Goddess but AFAIK Talon killed her. This was a disappointment for me.
2) Kalam and QB came out of a warren after Fiddler was saved by Hedge. What were they doing? Hiding? If so, why?
3) I like Karsa and his development but his level of power (killing the hounds close enough to easily) makes me feel uncomfortable. Do you feel the same?
4) After the cold iron / hot iron talk, people said "Leoman this" and "Leoman that" but we couldn't see much of him.
5) I kind of think the relation between Onrack and Trull is imbalanced. Not enough time was spent and nothing special happened between them but they are like blood brothers. I am having hard time reading their parts. What about you?
6) No war at all? Well I am happy that most of the army survived but I hoped more action

Regards

1. Because Raraku was awakened and didn't like what was going on in it.
2. Don't remember specifically, but seems likely. Also Pearl is a claw and plenty capable of performing assassinations in addition to his main mission.
3. I don't remember.
4. Yeah. Though he's also not the best of fellows.
5. I don't remember. Probably something about acquiring power.
6. Possibly.
7. Yes. Good thing he's an ascendant and thus likely doesn't suffer from such things.
8. Lots of things have happened to Cutter.
9. No. That was Korbolo's plan, only.
10. She was, but that fragment was connected to Raraku. And people wanted power.
11. Persistence over a long period of time, dominating the other spirits, becoming a mythical figure and eventually acquiring worshipers.
12. It was once a sea and so has become one again.
13. Took in the fragment of the shattered warren fully.
14. If Dryjhna is correct, humanity. But she's also pretty nuts, so whether that is accurate, who knows.
15. As avatars for the ghosts of the Chain of Dogs. Those animals survived the journey. Symbolism is powerful in this series, in terms of how magic works and so forth.
16. Keep in mind that it's essentially the story of how Trull came to be chained to that wall in the Nascent.


Second set.
1. Not sure if you're thinking of the right thing. "The Song" is the Tanno Spiritwalker thing. I think they met him in Book 2.
2. Meeting up through the acorn thing, then going to find "Strings."
3. He is a powerful character. Also ancient terrors are often overconfident in this series.
4. All the harassing and raiding and ambushing stuff was done by Leoman. Note that he survives the book.
5. One saved the other's life, and in turn is being helped to feel again.
6. No big battle, no. Lots of skirmishes. There is battle aplenty in the next few books, though.