[Abyss]

iso9001 said:

1451387137[/url]' post='1214077']

Kanese S said:

1451376477[/url]' post='1214068']
It gets murky, since as you say, "High Mage" definitely seems to be a formal title in the Malazan military as well as used outside it.

At least at the Siege of Pale, there were three identifiable tiers of mages. Squad Mages, who seemed to be, like Quick Ben, attached to small military units, Cadre Mages, who seemed to be part of a group of mages assigned to that particular army, more powerful (at least in name) than the squad mages, and High Mages, folks like Tayschrenn and Nightchill, who were called in from elsewhere, specifically for that assignment.

Being a High Mage seems to be a pretty damn Big Deal.

At least if I'm remembering right, there don't seem to ever be that many of them at once. Rare enough so that not even every field army gets one. Using multiple High Mages at once at Pale really seemed to widen people's eyes a bit in-universe.

I seem to remember the reaction during the Siege of Pale. There was also a terror-like shock when Gesler and his team was getting out of Aren (was it Aren?) along with Heboric when a High Mage entered the scene. They were all holding their breaths

Regards

The Gesler and co scene was at the start of DG when Kulp and the Marines set out ... The marine outpost is attacked and Kulp noted there's a High Mage among the Whirlwind rebels... He seems to be using the term to explain the level of power he's up against, but note that Kulp, a 'mere' squad mage, manages to push back the High Mage.

[iso9001]

I believe the squad mages are not "mere" mages just like in cases of Tattersail and QB

Regards

[iso9001]

Now I am headed for the next chapters and here are some questions:

1) I kinda dislike Krokus and his imbalanced resolution. He fell in love with a noble at first sight. Then he fell for Apsalar whom he knew for onyl a couple of weeks before he decided to go with her to her home town. And now he is following her like a puppy. Even turning into Cutter couldn't change my mind. What about you people?
2) How come Krokus is sure that Apsalar is heading for Ascendancy?
3) We know that ST and Cot can travel to the mortal world. So, why Fener's being in the mortal realm affect him whereas ST and Cot? Why can't he return to his realm? What is the difference?
4) The Whirldwind was a piece of shattered warren right? How a warren's outside is viewed as a Whirlwind? What is the Goddess exactly? I think I am misunderstanding something here

Regards

[LinearPhilosopher]

iso9001, on 30 December 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Now I am headed for the next chapters and here are some questions:

1) I kinda dislike Krokus and his imbalanced resolution. He fell in love with a noble at first sight. Then he fell for Apsalar whom he knew for onyl a couple of weeks before he decided to go with her to her home town. And now he is following her like a puppy. Even turning into Cutter couldn't change my mind. What about you people?
2) How come Krokus is sure that Apsalar is heading for Ascendancy?
3) We know that ST and Cot can travel to the mortal world. So, why Fener's being in the mortal realm affect him whereas ST and Cot? Why can't he return to his realm? What is the difference?
4) The Whirldwind was a piece of shattered warren right? How a warren's outside is viewed as a Whirlwind? What is the Goddess exactly? I think I am misunderstanding something here

Regards

1)the general consensus is SE is bad at writing romance.
3) have you read MOI? I know this is the HOC section but still, i dont wana spoil you.
4)RAFO

[Gorefest]

iso9001, on 30 December 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Now I am headed for the next chapters and here are some questions:

1) I kinda dislike Krokus and his imbalanced resolution. He fell in love with a noble at first sight. Then he fell for Apsalar whom he knew for onyl a couple of weeks before he decided to go with her to her home town. And now he is following her like a puppy. Even turning into Cutter couldn't change my mind. What about you people?
2) How come Krokus is sure that Apsalar is heading for Ascendancy?
3) We know that ST and Cot can travel to the mortal world. So, why Fener's being in the mortal realm affect him whereas ST and Cot? Why can't he return to his realm? What is the difference?
4) The Whirldwind was a piece of shattered warren right? How a warren's outside is viewed as a Whirlwind? What is the Goddess exactly? I think I am misunderstanding something here

Regards

1) He's an angsty teen. It is what they do. Just watch any romantic teen drama or comedy, beginning with Romeo and Juliette. Hormones over common sense. It starts off with Crokus feeling protective over her when she loses Cot's possession - and you imagine her being hot and vulnerable doesn't hurt in setting up that sort of relationship - but then when she finds her own footing and it turns out she is actually quite powerful and able to take care of herself, they are already halfway across the world.
2) can't remember Crokus thinking that, but it's not a major stretch of the imagination when you see some of the stuff that Apsalar is capable of, coupled to her being previously possessed by a God. Remember that Ascendant is not the same as God. Any sufficiently powerful being can be considered an ascendant.
3) the main difference is that, even when ST and Cots manifest themselves in the mortal realm, they are still in touch with the Shadow realm and can draw power from it. Fener has been completely separated from his power source, his realm, and he cannot get back. And a bit of RAFO.
4) you will learn what the whirlwind is later, so for now RAFO.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 30 December 2015 - 01:27 PM

[Kanese S's]

iso9001, on 30 December 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

I believe the squad mages are not "mere" mages just like in cases of Tattersail and QB

Regards

Tattersail is a Cadre Mage, not a Squad Mage. QB is basically hiding as a Squad Mage. Spindle is likely a more "typical" mage for that rank.

iso9001, on 30 December 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Now I am headed for the next chapters and here are some questions:

1) I kinda dislike Krokus and his imbalanced resolution. He fell in love with a noble at first sight. Then he fell for Apsalar whom he knew for onyl a couple of weeks before he decided to go with her to her home town. And now he is following her like a puppy. Even turning into Cutter couldn't change my mind. What about you people?
2) How come Krokus is sure that Apsalar is heading for Ascendancy?
3) We know that ST and Cot can travel to the mortal world. So, why Fener's being in the mortal realm affect him whereas ST and Cot? Why can't he return to his realm? What is the difference?
4) The Whirldwind was a piece of shattered warren right? How a warren's outside is viewed as a Whirlwind? What is the Goddess exactly? I think I am misunderstanding something here

Regards

1. Teenagers being impulsive and kinda dumb? That never happens! Seriously, he's like 17 or some shit. Not an age known for the best decision-making. As others have said, Apsalar at first appeared scared and vulnerable, but only when they were on an other continent did she manifest her abilities, revealing that she was actually quite a bit more powerful than Crokus.
2. Because if you pay attention to her storyline... she very likely is.
3. Because they do that on purpose and maintain contact with their warren. Fener was flung out of his completely, with no warning, and is fully manifested in the mortal realm, which is incredibly dangerous for a god.
4. Read and find out.

[iso9001]

Thank you guys for the clear answers.

When I read the answers to my first question, I remembered my own youth and now I can feel Krokus

Regards

This post has been edited by iso9001: 07 January 2016 - 11:21 PM

[iso9001]

Hi all,

I wish you a happy new year And here are my new year questions



1) If every warren is Krul's veins (or blood), then if Krul didn't decide to create the warrens, there wouldn't have been any mage, any God (because there wouldn't be any realms)? Well, at least not alien God we can say right?
2) Is there any specific reason why Krul decided to create warrens/realms? Gods and priests draw their power from Krul's blood. Am I correct?
3) Karsa is disturbed because Heboric can see what is haunting him. But AFAIK he has not long parted ways with Torvald and he was not this soft then. What happened to him that he started to see people (and their children) he killed following him? Why is that bothering him? What could possibly happen to him that he started to feel remorse (if it is remorse what he feels)? Was he reshaped by Raraku?
4) Karsa's thoughts about Whirlwind and Order makes me think that Whirldwind and its Goddess are in a deal with CG...
5) Heboric thinks that his severed hands found a new master. Is it the jade giant he touched?
6) Kalam thinks after buying his two long knives that Cotillion was there during last chaining. How is that possible in terms of time? Wasn't the chaining a long long time ago?
7) Do we get to know who was the previous owner of Kalam's new knives?
8) Paran thinks to bless the new House of Chains because he wants them to play by the rules (I know this was first suggested by Gruntle). What are these new rules? What are the cons and pros af having a blessed house?
9) Is Irriz a Seven Cities local who turned against the Empire and thus trying to kill a Malazan company?

Regards

[worry]

LOTS of questions we can't answer beyond RAFO. But I will say that knowing that what you thought you knew might not actually be the definitive truth is a good start.

7: You get Kalam's thoughts, pretty much.
8: It chains deities to the Deck of Dragons and thus strengthens the two-way street between god and worshiper.
9: Irriz is ex-Ashok Regiment in particular. They're all 7 Cities natives, but formally part of Malazan military (unlike the Red Blades). So you're right, but there's a more personal component.

[Gorefest]

iso9001, on 31 December 2015 - 11:43 PM, said:

1) If every warren is Krul's veins (or blood), then if Krul didn't decide to create the warrens, there wouldn't have been any mage, any God (because there wouldn't be any realms)? Well, at least not alien God we can say right?
2) Is there any specific reason why Krul decided to create warrens/realms? Gods and priests draw their power from Krul's blood. Am I correct?
3) Karsa is disturbed because Heboric can see what is haunting him. But AFAIK he has not long parted ways with Torvald and he was not this soft then. What happened to him that he started to see people (and their children) he killed following him? Why is that bothering him? What could possibly happen to him that he started to feel remorse (if it is remorse what he feels)? Was he reshaped by Raraku?
4) Karsa's thoughts about Whirlwind and Order makes me think that Whirldwind and its Goddess are in a deal with CG...
5) Heboric thinks that his severed hands found a new master. Is it the jade giant he touched?
6) Kalam thinks after buying his two long knives that Cotillion was there during last chaining. How is that possible in terms of time? Wasn't the chaining a long long time ago?
7) Do we get to know who was the previous owner of Kalam's new knives?
8) Paran thinks to bless the new House of Chains because he wants them to play by the rules (I know this was first suggested by Gruntle). What are these new rules? What are the cons and pros af having a blessed house?
9) Is Irriz a Seven Cities local who turned against the Empire and thus trying to kill a Malazan company?

Spoiler

1) Not exactly. Magic existed long before K'rul created the warrens. Only, it was very chaotic, unorganised, and was only accessible to certain races and entities. What K'rul did was lift the restriction on magic access for a select few powerful beings or races and make it accessible to anyone with a talent or feel for it. But you will learn more about this in the Kharkanas trilogy.
2) again, Forge of Darkness and future novels will give more answers, but in essence he was the great leveller; he wanted to lift the exclusivity of magic and give all races and beings an even playing field. And, in the process, apply certain restrictions and rules to an essentially very chaotic force.
3) I don't think he feels remorse for anything, but he learns about responsibility and that actions have consequences. He spends several years in the desert with Heboric and the others, so plenty of time for introspection and gaining insight into a wider world that was previously unknown to him. Don't forget that everything he was told by his granddad was basically a big lie.
4) you will learn more on the whirlwind goddess and her relationship with other entities in later books. For now, rafo.
5) it is the power related to those Jade giants.
6) there have been several chainings, the most recent of which involved shadowthrone and cots.
7) Yes.

8) at the moment, the crippled god is bound by no rules. Being a part of the deck confines him to the restrictions and order placed upon magic through k'rul's blood. It legitimises him, but also makes him accountable and forces him into a magic 'straightjacket'.
9) irriz used to be in the Ashok regiment, which was a malazan regiment made up of seven cities natives. Kindly was his captain. Irriz rebelled and joined the whirlwind.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 01 January 2016 - 10:11 PM

[worry]

Dang! Leave room for learning, bro!

[Kanese S's]

iso9001, on 31 December 2015 - 11:43 PM, said:

Hi all,

I wish you a happy new year And here are my new year questions



1) If every warren is Krul's veins (or blood), then if Krul didn't decide to create the warrens, there wouldn't have been any mage, any God (because there wouldn't be any realms)? Well, at least not alien God we can say right?
2) Is there any specific reason why Krul decided to create warrens/realms? Gods and priests draw their power from Krul's blood. Am I correct?
3) Karsa is disturbed because Heboric can see what is haunting him. But AFAIK he has not long parted ways with Torvald and he was not this soft then. What happened to him that he started to see people (and their children) he killed following him? Why is that bothering him? What could possibly happen to him that he started to feel remorse (if it is remorse what he feels)? Was he reshaped by Raraku?
4) Karsa's thoughts about Whirlwind and Order makes me think that Whirldwind and its Goddess are in a deal with CG...
5) Heboric thinks that his severed hands found a new master. Is it the jade giant he touched?
6) Kalam thinks after buying his two long knives that Cotillion was there during last chaining. How is that possible in terms of time? Wasn't the chaining a long long time ago?
7) Do we get to know who was the previous owner of Kalam's new knives?
8) Paran thinks to bless the new House of Chains because he wants them to play by the rules (I know this was first suggested by Gruntle). What are these new rules? What are the cons and pros af having a blessed house?
9) Is Irriz a Seven Cities local who turned against the Empire and thus trying to kill a Malazan company?

Regards

1. You'll see. It's complicated.
2. See above.
3. Character development. Also *lots* of time for self-reflection.
4. Keep reading.
5. Again, keep reading.
6. There has been more than one chaining.
7. What Worry said. That's pretty much it.
8. By being blessed and made an "official" part of the deck, the Crippled God and his House of Chains will have to move under the same limits in machinations as all the rest, and be held to aspect forced on him by his worshipers.
9. As the others said. Irriz is essentially a deserter/traitor.

[iso9001]

Thank you all, you are explanatory as always

When I first started readin Malazan series, I thought that I wouldn't read books other than the original 10 books since this is a very long journey and there are lots of other books still waiting Tough I am not sure that I will keep that in my e-book reader since they contain lots of information. Maybe you guys have your own some must-read and might-be-skipped book list?

Regards

[Gorefest]

Might be skipped? I am unfamiliar with this language that you speak, I fear.

[iso9001]

Gorefest, on 01 January 2016 - 07:38 PM, said:

Might be skipped? I am unfamiliar with this language that you speak, I fear.

I meant the books that I wouldn't miss much if I don't read For example, Return of the Crimson Guard seems to be a "might-be-skipped" book

Regards

[worry]

To the answerers:

Spoiler

I don't mean to offend, since you were simply answering questions that somebody asked, and I'm certainly not scolding anyone since that isn't my place or point, but don't you think there's value in not answering someone's questions even if it's not technically a spoiler? For example (and perhaps the thing that bothers me personally the most), the answer about the multiple chainings. Sure, Iso asked about it, had some confusion. But don't you think that confusion has value in and of itself at this point? Don't you think maybe figuring out this kind of stuff, as you read, is part of the fun of the series? Like, this is still a very early book, and though there are implications of things we learn more conclusively later, not everybody 'gets it' on the first hint. So why not leave them to it? I'd also point out that the person asking the questions isn't the only person reading the answers. The thread is going to exist well after the OP finishes the series. Point being, satisfying one person's curiosity isn't necessarily the right thing to do, no matter how much that individual might want it. And I am distinguishing this kind of thing from someone who legitimately did 'miss something' or even standard text analysis, and I acknowledge the line can be fuzzy. But I am arguing for erring on the side of RAFO even when it's not technically a matter of clearcut spoilers. Thank you for listening!

[Andorion]

iso9001, on 01 January 2016 - 08:49 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 01 January 2016 - 07:38 PM, said:

Might be skipped? I am unfamiliar with this language that you speak, I fear.

I meant the books that I wouldn't miss much if I don't read For example, Return of the Crimson Guard seems to be a "might-be-skipped" book

Regards

Urm RotCG is most definitely not a might be skipped book. Did you see the ultimate read order? You are in HoC right now, so it should go like this

MT
NoK
TBH

then there's a RG RotCG debate. But you definitely have to read RotCG before TTH

[Andorion]

worry, on 01 January 2016 - 09:32 PM, said:

To the answerers:

Spoiler

I don't mean to offend, since you were simply answering questions that somebody asked, and I'm certainly not scolding anyone since that isn't my place or point, but don't you think there's value in not answering someone's questions even if it's not technically a spoiler? For example (and perhaps the thing that bothers me personally the most), the answer about the multiple chainings. Sure, Iso asked about it, had some confusion. But don't you think that confusion has value in and of itself at this point? Don't you think maybe figuring out this kind of stuff, as you read, is part of the fun of the series? Like, this is still a very early book, and though there are implications of things we learn more conclusively later, not everybody 'gets it' on the first hint. So why not leave them to it? I'd also point out that the person asking the questions isn't the only person reading the answers. The thread is going to exist well after the OP finishes the series. Point being, satisfying one person's curiosity isn't necessarily the right thing to do, no matter how much that individual might want it. And I am distinguishing this kind of thing from someone who legitimately did 'miss something' or even standard text analysis, and I acknowledge the line can be fuzzy. But I am arguing for erring on the side of RAFO even when it's not technically a matter of clearcut spoilers. Thank you for listening!

Agree about the chainings thing

[Gorefest]

Spoiler tagged my original post. I agree that it was a bit overzealous. There's helpful and there's overbearing. I'll try and stick to the first a bit more.

[Puck]

Andorion, on 02 January 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

iso9001, on 01 January 2016 - 08:49 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 01 January 2016 - 07:38 PM, said:

Might be skipped? I am unfamiliar with this language that you speak, I fear.

I meant the books that I wouldn't miss much if I don't read For example, Return of the Crimson Guard seems to be a "might-be-skipped" book

Regards

Urm RotCG is most definitely not a might be skipped book. Did you see the ultimate read order? You are in HoC right now, so it should go like this

MT
NoK
TBH

then there's a RG RotCG debate. But you definitely have to read RotCG before TTH

I disagree. Provided one is okay with accepting that some things happen offscreen, pretty much all of which have no important bearing on the MBotF, RotCG can be skipped, as can all the ICE books. I know I skipped them initially, and know others who have, and it doesn't take away from the MBotF. Making either series (SE's and ICE's) so dependent on each other as to requiere reding the other to be of value is, imho, not doing either of them justice. They can be read together, but they don't requiere it. At least the MBotF does not.

The only issue I see is priorities, e.g. completionism. Some people want ALL THE INFO (which, let's be honest, not even reading both series provides), and some want to enjoy the ride. Both series even have a different focus, it's like interveawing two different tales. It's true that there are spoilers for the MBotF in ICE's books, but the other way around I can think of only one.

There's also the issue of the possibly jarring change of style between SE and ICE, but I digress. What I'm trying to say is that there's this constant push for people who express the possibility of not reading ICE in some strict reading order to do so anyway, which is silly.