[QuickTidal]

Mentalist, on 20 October 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

First Crusade, siege of Antioch.
Crusaders starved nearly half to death besieging the city. Eventually, they bought off a commander of one of the towers to let them in. The Emir of the city holed up in the citadel, refusing to yield (or was it his son? Don't remember off the top of my head), and then a Turk relief army came, which greatly outnumbered the cruseaders. They couldn't hope to defend the city from inside and outside, so they took the field, and managed to scatter the Turks.

They actually later did the same thing after taking Jerusalem against a relieving Egyptian army @ Ascalon, but the numbers weren't as overwhelming that time, I don't think.

Don't forget that the rabble of Crusaders (mostly French) that arrived at Antioch did so with the belief (from the commanders...such as they were...basically nobles from different cities who took charge-ish) that Byzantium was going to be re-enforcing the Crusade with a large contingent of Byzantine's and they honestly all thought they'd mop the floor with Antioch and take it in days...but it never materialized, and the Crusaders were left to siege it themselves with lesser numbers...by the time the Turks showed up, it was already pretty bleak.

[QuickTidal]

On topic, I rarely encounter this...I don't know if I'm just accepting of stuff because I know in the end it serves to give me the story.

In Codex Alera book 6, why

Spoiler

didn't the Queen lop Tavi's head off? Cause the story would have ended there.

But yeah, a plothole has to be ESPECIALLY heinous to piss me off. See: INTERSTELLAR's ending for a movie example of this heinousness.

For books, one that stands out in my head...one of the James Rollins Sigma books (the 7th or 8th, can't recall) has a bad guy/evil corporation hideout that from the air is in the shape of the logo (known to the CIA and other government agencies AS their logo) for that evil corporation. No one had found it till the lead sees an Aerial photograph of the place when the events of the book go down. So this place, has existed for decades and NO one investigating them ever noticed that the thing is laid out like a logo and realized it as a hideout? WTF?

I love Rollins books, but that moment was a stinker.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 21 October 2015 - 05:48 PM

[Illuyankas]

By the same rationale, you must therefore agree that this military base needs to be investigated for Nazis.

[Macros]

Abyss, on 21 October 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

Macros, on 20 October 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

...
MBoTF spoilers for.. I forget book 9 or 10

Spoiler

constant use of italics to make a point of the bonehunters doing the impossible yet again. the shield wall holding against the supersized dinosaur killing machines was the final straw for me on that, Benedict Hull or whoever watching and thinking they're still holding just made me want to throw the book across the room, SUPER DINOSAUR KILLING MACHINES STOMP ON PUNY HUMANS FOR FUN ALSO JUST GET THE FUCK OUT OF THEIR WAY..

Was explained in the next book exactly how they did it, and they weren't as big as the other ones.

sorry abyss, I forgot its frowned upon to have problems with MBotF.

that scene is still utter bullshit

[Maark Abbott]

Macros, on 21 October 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

Abyss, on 21 October 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

Macros, on 20 October 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

...
MBoTF spoilers for.. I forget book 9 or 10

Spoiler

constant use of italics to make a point of the bonehunters doing the impossible yet again. the shield wall holding against the supersized dinosaur killing machines was the final straw for me on that, Benedict Hull or whoever watching and thinking they're still holding just made me want to throw the book across the room, SUPER DINOSAUR KILLING MACHINES STOMP ON PUNY HUMANS FOR FUN ALSO JUST GET THE FUCK OUT OF THEIR WAY..

Was explained in the next book exactly how they did it, and they weren't as big as the other ones.

sorry abyss, I forgot its frowned upon to have problems with MBotF.

that scene is still utter bullshit

DoD spoilers:

Spoiler

"They fucking ATE them!"

[QuickTidal]

Illuyankas, on 21 October 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

By the same rationale, you must therefore agree that this military base needs to be investigated for Nazis.

Different. Intentional. To which the architect of said barracks said:

"We knew what it [the building complex] was going to look like" - Architect John Mock




But I get your point. Still. It's fucking STUPID to be an evil organization, and shape your building like your logo. You may as well hang a shingle offering evil services.

[QuickTidal]

Had to go on a forum-search, cause I had two instances of stupidity form the last Dan Brown book I read (INFERNO) that I'd long forgotten...but here that are presented as I did back in 2013 (edited slightly because 2013 me was a jackwad).

1. Langdon and his companion (this time it's a female British Doctor with a high IQ) call the American consulate in Florence, Italy (where the events take place) to find out what's going on, and then they hide out across the street in the girls apartment (?!) from the address of their location that they give to the consulate to see if they can trust them...and then STAY in the building across the street till the baddies realize they must be in the vicinity....and Langdon then stupidly uses the girls HOME COMPUTER to log into his Harvard Edu email...and they raid the building.

2. The baddies (just as stupid as Langdon apparently) arrive in the apartment and realize that the IP address is not registered to Langdon (Derp)...and the lackey guy says it's registered under the initials "S.C."...and that "it shouldn't take too long to find out the persons whole name and proceeds to go about electronically finding it out...Me: Hey....Chauncy.....how's about you go to the fucking front door and find some mail? Huh? What do you think of that detective work?...Fuck. Like seriously.

[Abyss]

Macros, on 21 October 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

Abyss, on 21 October 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

Macros, on 20 October 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

...
MBoTF spoilers for.. I forget book 9 or 10

Spoiler

constant use of italics to make a point of the bonehunters doing the impossible yet again. the shield wall holding against the supersized dinosaur killing machines was the final straw for me on that, Benedict Hull or whoever watching and thinking they're still holding just made me want to throw the book across the room, SUPER DINOSAUR KILLING MACHINES STOMP ON PUNY HUMANS FOR FUN ALSO JUST GET THE FUCK OUT OF THEIR WAY..

Was explained in the next book exactly how they did it, and they weren't as big as the other ones.

sorry abyss, I forgot its frowned upon to have problems with MBotF.

that scene is still utter bullshit

Don't be that guy macros. It's right there in the book and i'm not dropping some massive phantom forum modgod cabal wrath on you by pointing it out.

... and if i was you wouldn't know it... because we are EVERYWHERE.
Nice pjs, btw.

[acesn8s]

Illuyankas, on 21 October 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

By the same rationale, you must therefore agree that this military base needs to be investigated for Nazis.

And this High School must have rebel scum!

[polishgenius]

To be fair, you don't exactly have to reach to find plotholes and stupidities in Malazan. We love it despite and, sometimes, because of those flaws, but it's pretty unarguable that they're there.

Huge spoilers for the whole series:

Spoiler

By far my biggest problem with the series is the amount of resurrections, in one way or another, of characters that got awesome and meaningful death scenes. I mean, by the end of the series, the only big deaths who're still dead are Trull, Itkovian and probably Rake. It's fucking ridiculous

But anyway.

Mod edit: Please mark where your spoilers are from. This goes for the whole thread; it's an interesting discussion but naturally the thread is going to be spoiler heavy, so please be considerate with tagging your spoilers.

-Grief.

[Tiste Simeon]

Abyss, on 22 October 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

Macros, on 21 October 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

Abyss, on 21 October 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

Macros, on 20 October 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

...
MBoTF spoilers for.. I forget book 9 or 10

Spoiler

constant use of italics to make a point of the bonehunters doing the impossible yet again. the shield wall holding against the supersized dinosaur killing machines was the final straw for me on that, Benedict Hull or whoever watching and thinking they're still holding just made me want to throw the book across the room, SUPER DINOSAUR KILLING MACHINES STOMP ON PUNY HUMANS FOR FUN ALSO JUST GET THE FUCK OUT OF THEIR WAY..

Was explained in the next book exactly how they did it, and they weren't as big as the other ones.

sorry abyss, I forgot its frowned upon to have problems with MBotF.

that scene is still utter bullshit

Don't be that guy macros. It's right there in the book and i'm not dropping some massive phantom forum modgod cabal wrath on you by pointing it out.

... and if i was you wouldn't know it... because we are EVERYWHERE.
Nice pjs, btw.

Request for abuse of Modgod powers to change Macros' avatar to that guy from the Simpsons with the huge hand!

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

polishgenius, on 22 October 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

Huge spoilers for the whole series:

Spoiler

By far my biggest problem with the series is the amount of resurrections, in one way or another, of characters that got awesome and meaningful death scenes. I mean, by the end of the series, the only big deaths who're still dead are Trull, Itkovian and probably Rake. It's fucking ridiculous

Fair, but some of them I kind of like anyway.

Spoiler

For example, Whiskeyjack is back but still very much dead, as is Toc (poor guy deserved to catch a break at last)

I agree though, the flaws are part of the overall charm.

[Maark Abbott]

Not so much a plothole as a repeated plot that I found with Feist (and that actually turned me off reading anything past Serpentwar)...

1. Bad guys appear.
2. Good guys are doing well against the bad guys.
3. Bad guys fight back, are definitely going to win.
4. Pug and Tomas do the thing.
5. The bad guys are vanquished.

[worry]

One man's plot hole is another man's plot lump.

[QuickTidal]

worry, on 23 October 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

One man's plot hole is another man's plot lump.

Judges?

Weak.

Superweak.

Do better Worry.

[Maark Abbott]

worry, on 23 October 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

One man's plot hole is another man's plot lump.

So you're saying that all plot holes should be filled with plot lumps? I'm sure that I can find it in myself to be outraged about this.

[End of Disc One]

If we're going to talk about Malazan, I always roll my eyes whenever someone says something profound, leaving the other characters shaken to the core.

[QuickTidal]

Maark, on 23 October 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

worry, on 23 October 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

One man's plot hole is another man's plot lump.

So you're saying that all plot holes should be filled with plot lumps? I'm sure that I can find it in myself to be outraged about this.

and now i want a Timbit.

[Maark Abbott]

End of Disc One, on 23 October 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

If we're going to talk about Malazan, I always roll my eyes whenever someone says something profound, leaving the other characters shaken to the core.

Witness.

[Abyss]

Maark, on 23 October 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

End of Disc One, on 23 October 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

If we're going to talk about Malazan, I always roll my eyes whenever someone says something profound, leaving the other characters shaken to the core.

Witness.

Potsherds.