[Manderley]

So, I finished reading Gardens of the Moon a few days back and I definitely liked it. Despite the awe inducing descriptions and moments I though the best part of the book was the dry and dark humour present throughout the book. Maybe it was because I paid more attention while reading it than I normally would but I did not find it all that difficult to follow as is generally implied with this book. That said, while i was able to follow the general plot and character motivations the magic and terms used were puzzling to say the least.

What's an adept? I think it was Kruppe who was referred to as but it's never really explained.

What's an ascendant? And what's the difference between an ascendant and a god?

Kruppe's dreams? Is it basically just a parallel world that mimics the real world (something like Telaran'rhiod in WoT if you will)? And does the dreamer become more powerful in such a scenario? I thought it was a bit ridiculous how Kruppe was able to handle the Tyrant so easily after he had dispatched 5 dragons not moments ago.

Who/what is an Azath? And what happened exactly to Coll's house and why did it only allow Rollick and that assiassin head to go inside?

Warrens...all of it. To be honest I felt completely lost when the topic of warrens were brought up.

There are some places are repeatedly mentioned but not marked on the map which is infuriating. Fox's pass is mentioned numerous times and the best I can make out is that it's somewhere close to Black Dog Forest.

Oponn...what's the motivation with trying to influence mortals? Is there anything beyond trolling and curiosity?

Heirlock...Is he just batshit insane or is there any rhyme or reasoning to his actions after being reborn as a puppet?

Shadowthrone. Another one who's motivations are rather puzzling. I'd have thought both Rake and him wouldn't mind working together given they both do not like the Empire.

And I must admit, I kinda fucked when it comes to geography. Through GotM whenever seven cities was brought up I assumed they were talking about the free cities on Genabackis. Only realized I messed up when I opened up Deadgouse Gates and realized it was a different continent...:facepalm:

[Andorion]

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

So, I finished reading Gardens of the Moon a few days back and I definitely liked it. Despite the awe inducing descriptions and moments I though the best part of the book was the dry and dark humour present throughout the book. Maybe it was because I paid more attention while reading it than I normally would but I did not find it all that difficult to follow as is generally implied with this book. That said, while i was able to follow the general plot and character motivations the magic and terms used were puzzling to say the least.

What's an adept? I think it was Kruppe who was referred to as but it's never really explained.

What's an ascendant? And what's the difference between an ascendant and a god?

Kruppe's dreams? Is it basically just a parallel world that mimics the real world (something like Telaran'rhiod in WoT if you will)? And does the dreamer become more powerful in such a scenario? I thought it was a bit ridiculous how Kruppe was able to handle the Tyrant so easily after he had dispatched 5 dragons not moments ago.

Who/what is an Azath? And what happened exactly to Coll's house and why did it only allow Rollick and that assiassin head to go inside?

Warrens...all of it. To be honest I felt completely lost when the topic of warrens were brought up.

There are some places are repeatedly mentioned but not marked on the map which is infuriating. Fox's pass is mentioned numerous times and the best I can make out is that it's somewhere close to Black Dog Forest.

Oponn...what's the motivation with trying to influence mortals? Is there anything beyond trolling and curiosity?

Heirlock...Is he just batshit insane or is there any rhyme or reasoning to his actions after being reborn as a puppet?

Shadowthrone. Another one who's motivations are rather puzzling. I'd have thought both Rake and him wouldn't mind working together given they both do not like the Empire.

And I must admit, I kinda fucked when it comes to geography. Through GotM whenever seven cities was brought up I assumed they were talking about the free cities on Genabackis. Only realized I messed up when I opened up Deadgouse Gates and realized it was a different continent...:facepalm:

Azath : most information about azath is RAFO, but for your purposes, an azath is a building /place that essentially exists to capture and imprison entities of great power. What happened in the garden was that a new azath house was born and it imprisoned the jaghut tyrant. Why and who an azath lets in is decided by the azath and therefore unknown to everyone else.

Warrens are RAFO

If memory serves, in Gardens an adept means a person skilled at magic.

An ascendant is a being who has transcended mortality and reached a new level of existence. Ascendants are very powerful, extremely long lived and generally hard to kill. If an ascendant gains worshippers he may become a God.

Kruppe's dreams are part of the mystery that is kruppe. as you read on you will see that there is a lot more to kruppe. So RAFO

Oponn operates on the basis of push and pull. Toying with mortals and their fates is what they do.

Hairlock was never very stable to begin with, then the trauma of his injury and the soul transfer process drove him insane. He was also corrupted by chaos during his trips through the Warrens.

Shadowthrone and his motivations are completely RAFO

[HoosierDaddy]

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

So, I finished reading Gardens of the Moon a few days back and I definitely liked it. Despite the awe inducing descriptions and moments I though the best part of the book was the dry and dark humour present throughout the book. Maybe it was because I paid more attention while reading it than I normally would but I did not find it all that difficult to follow as is generally implied with this book. That said, while i was able to follow the general plot and character motivations the magic and terms used were puzzling to say the least.

What's an adept? I think it was Kruppe who was referred to as but it's never really explained.

Someone who is more easily able to channel the warrens magic.

Quote

What's an ascendant? And what's the difference between an ascendant and a god?

Have fun with that one. RAFO.

Quote

Kruppe's dreams? Is it basically just a parallel world that mimics the real world (something like Telaran'rhiod in WoT if you will)? And does the dreamer become more powerful in such a scenario? I thought it was a bit ridiculous how Kruppe was able to handle the Tyrant so easily after he had dispatched 5 dragons not moments ago.

Kruppe is always far more than he seems. And fatter.

Quote

Who/what is an Azath? And what happened exactly to Coll's house and why did it only allow Rollick and that assiassin head to go inside?

Part 1. RAFO, maybe. Part 2. RAFO, maybe.

Quote

Warrens...all of it. To be honest I felt completely lost when the topic of warrens were brought up.

They are esoteric and supposed to be confusing as hell. You are missing nothing.

Quote

There are some places are repeatedly mentioned but not marked on the map which is infuriating. Fox's pass is mentioned numerous times and the best I can make out is that it's somewhere close to Black Dog Forest.

It'd be nice to have detailed maps, yeah? Maybe there's something about the city it's around?

Quote

Oponn...what's the motivation with trying to influence mortals? Is there anything beyond trolling and curiosity?

The god/s of luck like to dice. Shocking?

Quote

Heirlock...Is he just batshit insane or is there any rhyme or reasoning to his actions after being reborn as a puppet?

Already pissed off, being made pinnochio did not do him good. He wants to kill lots of people before hand, even more after.

Quote

Shadowthrone. Another one who's motivations are rather puzzling. I'd have thought both Rake and him wouldn't mind working together given they both do not like the Empire.

Keep reading.

Quote

And I must admit, I kinda fucked when it comes to geography. Through GotM whenever seven cities was brought up I assumed they were talking about the free cities on Genabackis. Only realized I messed up when I opened up Deadgouse Gates and realized it was a different continent...:facepalm:

The Malazan Empire is large. Deadhouse Gates is pretty good.

[Puck]

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

What's an adept? I think it was Kruppe who was referred to as but it's never really explained.

Someone with the ability/talent to use magic (e.g. Kruppe, Quick Ben, etc.) and/or read the Deck of Dragons (e.g. Tattersail).

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

What's an ascendant? And what's the difference between an ascendant and a god?

Someone who has transcended mortal boundaries, and that's pushing spoilerific territory. Basically, RAFO. But you can think of it like something along the lines of Greek gods and demigods, the gods being pretty much the same concept and the ascendants somewhere between mortals and gods, the difference being that gods are worshipped as such.

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Kruppe's dreams? Is it basically just a parallel world that mimics the real world (something like Telaran'rhiod in WoT if you will)? And does the dreamer become more powerful in such a scenario? I thought it was a bit ridiculous how Kruppe was able to handle the Tyrant so easily after he had dispatched 5 dragons not moments ago.

There will be more about Kruppe, so RAFO. His dreams are special.

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Who/what is an Azath? And what happened exactly to Coll's house and why did it only allow Rollick and that assiassin head to go inside?

It was not Coll's house they could not enter, but the growing Azath house, which was in Coll's garden. At this point, you're no supposed to know much about the Azath houses, but Andotion already explained a lot of it. It grew as a reaction the the power imbalance that was happening in Darujhistan. DG has more info on the matter of the Azath houses.

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Warrens...all of it. To be honest I felt completely lost when the topic of warrens were brought up.

Think of Warrens as something like the elemental powers switcheroo you probably know from other works. A Warren is an aspected path of magic a mage can tap into, simply put. For example, Tattersail used the Warren of Tyr, which is the Path of Light, so her magic is light-ascpected, while Quick Ben primarily uses Meanas, the Path of Shadow/Illusion, which is the dominant aspect in his magic.

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Oponn...what's the motivation with trying to influence mortals? Is there anything beyond trolling and curiosity?

Oponn are the Jesters of Chance, trolling is their nature. Also, because they can.

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Heirlock...Is he just batshit insane or is there any rhyme or reasoning to his actions after being reborn as a puppet?

As Andorion already pointed out, a lot of things came together with Hairlock, and spending time in the chaos between the Warrens is not conductive to one's sanity.

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Shadowthrone. Another one who's motivations are rather puzzling. I'd have thought both Rake and him wouldn't mind working together given they both do not like the Empire.

Shadowthrone and his motivations/actions is entirely RAFO.

[Abyss]

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

...What's an adept? I think it was Kruppe who was referred to as but it's never really explained.

the term suggests a level of accomplishment in an area. Kruppe may be an adept at sorcery, and iirc the term is used to describe Murillio's accomplishment as a duelist.

Quote

What's an ascendant? And what's the difference between an ascendant and a god?

There's a LOT of RAFO to this.
To the extent that it's explained in GotM, an ascendant is someone who has become more powerful than the norm for their race. A god is a being who has an aspect (ie: Fener is aspected to War, among other things) who is worshipped by followers. Some ascendants are gods, not all gods are ascendants, and the power levels are wildly varied for both.

Quote

Kruppe's dreams? Is it basically just a parallel world that mimics the real world (something like Telaran'rhiod in WoT if you will)? And does the dreamer become more powerful in such a scenario? I thought it was a bit ridiculous how Kruppe was able to handle the Tyrant so easily after he had dispatched 5 dragons not moments ago.

Kruppe had a LOT of help, and even then he couldn't completely defeat the Tyrant.

Quote

Who/what is an Azath? And what happened exactly to Coll's house and why did it only allow Rollick and that assiassin head to go inside?

RAFO.
All you need to take from GotM is that Azath at times show up to contain superpowerful beings like the Tyrant.

Quote

Warrens...all of it. To be honest I felt completely lost when the topic of warrens were brought up.

That's its beauty - a magic system that doesn't break down into neat little easily explained chunks.
Huge RAFO, but from GotM you can conclude that warrens are dimensions that mages and others draw power from.

Quote

...Oponn...what's the motivation with trying to influence mortals? Is there anything beyond trolling and curiosity?

RAFO but note that gods tend to be compelled to act within their aspects, and Oponn's is luck.

Quote

Heirlock...Is he just batshit insane or is there any rhyme or reasoning to his actions after being reborn as a puppet?

Both. He was looking for power to challenge the Empire and it drove him nuts

Quote

Shadowthrone. Another one who's motivations are rather puzzling. I'd have thought both Rake and him wouldn't mind working together given they both do not like the Empire.

So much RAFO.

So welcome to the party Manderly - you have some glorious, glorious reading ahead of you. If you enjoyed GotM, what comes next is going to blow your mind, reassemble it, then blow it again.

[Manderley]

Cheer for the help. Looks like most of it is going to be explained so I'm going to keep my eyes open...

A couple of questions have dawned on me while reading the above.

What exactly happened to to the Jaghut Tyrant? He gets a load of build up, destroys 5 dragons and then somehow finds himself trapped in a dream and then gets swallowed by an azath (?). Seems a bit messed up or am I missing something here?

And why were the Crimson Guard protecting the coin bearer? I can understand the Adjunct wanting to kill him. I can understand Rollick, Kruppe and others wanting to protect given he's either friend but the Crimson Guard seems random.

[Andorion]

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

Cheer for the help. Looks like most of it is going to be explained so I'm going to keep my eyes open...

A couple of questions have dawned on me while reading the above.

What exactly happened to to the Jaghut Tyrant? He gets a load of build up, destroys 5 dragons and then somehow finds himself trapped in a dream and then gets swallowed by an azath (?). Seems a bit messed up or am I missing something here?

And why were the Crimson Guard protecting the coin bearer? I can understand the Adjunct wanting to kill him. I can understand Rollick, Kruppe and others wanting to protect given he's either friend but the Crimson Guard seems random.

The fate of the Tyrant will be revealed later so RAFO

The Crimson Guard were protecting the Coibearer on the orders of Caladan Brood the warlord. This is revealed in chapter ten during Crone's conversation with brood. The Tiste Andii assassin mages were hunting the Coin Bearer and Brood feared that if Rake got the Coin he would use it to kill Oponn. This would unbalance the power struggle in Darujhistan the Malazan Empire would take overt military action against Rake and like Pale Darujhistan would be destroyed in the ensuing battle. So to avoid this Brood ordered the Guard to protect the coinbearer.

[iso9001]

Andorion, on 25 September 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

Cheer for the help. Looks like most of it is going to be explained so I'm going to keep my eyes open...

A couple of questions have dawned on me while reading the above.

What exactly happened to to the Jaghut Tyrant? He gets a load of build up, destroys 5 dragons and then somehow finds himself trapped in a dream and then gets swallowed by an azath (?). Seems a bit messed up or am I missing something here?

And why were the Crimson Guard protecting the coin bearer? I can understand the Adjunct wanting to kill him. I can understand Rollick, Kruppe and others wanting to protect given he's either friend but the Crimson Guard seems random.

The fate of the Tyrant will be revealed later so RAFO

The Crimson Guard were protecting the Coibearer on the orders of Caladan Brood the warlord. This is revealed in chapter ten during Crone's conversation with brood. The Tiste Andii assassin mages were hunting the Coin Bearer and Brood feared that if Rake got the Coin he would use it to kill Oponn. This would unbalance the power struggle in Darujhistan the Malazan Empire would take overt military action against Rake and like Pale Darujhistan would be destroyed in the ensuing battle. So to avoid this Brood ordered the Guard to protect the coinbearer.

Then why didn't Brood kill the con bearer and took the coin himself? If he wants to keep the coin away from Rake, I believe he would be the most appropriate place to keep it wouldn't it? Besides, he woouldn't need to protect the coin bearer no more so that the guards could be used somewhere else. It looks like a win-win to me

[Andorion]

iso9001, on 27 September 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Andorion, on 25 September 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

Cheer for the help. Looks like most of it is going to be explained so I'm going to keep my eyes open...

A couple of questions have dawned on me while reading the above.

What exactly happened to to the Jaghut Tyrant? He gets a load of build up, destroys 5 dragons and then somehow finds himself trapped in a dream and then gets swallowed by an azath (?). Seems a bit messed up or am I missing something here?

And why were the Crimson Guard protecting the coin bearer? I can understand the Adjunct wanting to kill him. I can understand Rollick, Kruppe and others wanting to protect given he's either friend but the Crimson Guard seems random.

The fate of the Tyrant will be revealed later so RAFO

The Crimson Guard were protecting the Coibearer on the orders of Caladan Brood the warlord. This is revealed in chapter ten during Crone's conversation with brood. The Tiste Andii assassin mages were hunting the Coin Bearer and Brood feared that if Rake got the Coin he would use it to kill Oponn. This would unbalance the power struggle in Darujhistan the Malazan Empire would take overt military action against Rake and like Pale Darujhistan would be destroyed in the ensuing battle. So to avoid this Brood ordered the Guard to protect the coinbearer.

Then why didn't Brood kill the con bearer and took the coin himself? If he wants to keep the coin away from Rake, I believe he would be the most appropriate place to keep it wouldn't it? Besides, he woouldn't need to protect the coin bearer no more so that the guards could be used somewhere else. It looks like a win-win to me

Because firstly brood is facing the malazan army in the field so he can't just take a week off to go to darujhistan. Secondly brood is a very powerful ascendant himself and his taking the coin would also attract a lot of trouble. third brood is a nice guy who doesn't kill innocent kids if he can help it. Fourth the coin bearer free in darujhistan makes up part of the power game there so preserving him preserves the balance

[iso9001]

Andorion, on 27 September 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

iso9001, on 27 September 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Andorion, on 25 September 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

Cheer for the help. Looks like most of it is going to be explained so I'm going to keep my eyes open...

A couple of questions have dawned on me while reading the above.

What exactly happened to to the Jaghut Tyrant? He gets a load of build up, destroys 5 dragons and then somehow finds himself trapped in a dream and then gets swallowed by an azath (?). Seems a bit messed up or am I missing something here?

And why were the Crimson Guard protecting the coin bearer? I can understand the Adjunct wanting to kill him. I can understand Rollick, Kruppe and others wanting to protect given he's either friend but the Crimson Guard seems random.

The fate of the Tyrant will be revealed later so RAFO

The Crimson Guard were protecting the Coibearer on the orders of Caladan Brood the warlord. This is revealed in chapter ten during Crone's conversation with brood. The Tiste Andii assassin mages were hunting the Coin Bearer and Brood feared that if Rake got the Coin he would use it to kill Oponn. This would unbalance the power struggle in Darujhistan the Malazan Empire would take overt military action against Rake and like Pale Darujhistan would be destroyed in the ensuing battle. So to avoid this Brood ordered the Guard to protect the coinbearer.

Then why didn't Brood kill the con bearer and took the coin himself? If he wants to keep the coin away from Rake, I believe he would be the most appropriate place to keep it wouldn't it? Besides, he woouldn't need to protect the coin bearer no more so that the guards could be used somewhere else. It looks like a win-win to me

Because firstly brood is facing the malazan army in the field so he can't just take a week off to go to darujhistan. Secondly brood is a very powerful ascendant himself and his taking the coin would also attract a lot of trouble. third brood is a nice guy who doesn't kill innocent kids if he can help it. Fourth the coin bearer free in darujhistan makes up part of the power game there so preserving him preserves the balance

First: He doesn't have to go himself. His guards could do the job
Second: Why? Cotillion did not hesitate for the sword Chance?
Third: Didn't know that. Yet, He doesn't have to kill the boy in order to take the coin does he?
Fourth: Agreed

[Andorion]

iso9001, on 27 September 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

Andorion, on 27 September 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

iso9001, on 27 September 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Andorion, on 25 September 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

Cheer for the help. Looks like most of it is going to be explained so I'm going to keep my eyes open...

A couple of questions have dawned on me while reading the above.

What exactly happened to to the Jaghut Tyrant? He gets a load of build up, destroys 5 dragons and then somehow finds himself trapped in a dream and then gets swallowed by an azath (?). Seems a bit messed up or am I missing something here?

And why were the Crimson Guard protecting the coin bearer? I can understand the Adjunct wanting to kill him. I can understand Rollick, Kruppe and others wanting to protect given he's either friend but the Crimson Guard seems random.

The fate of the Tyrant will be revealed later so RAFO

The Crimson Guard were protecting the Coibearer on the orders of Caladan Brood the warlord. This is revealed in chapter ten during Crone's conversation with brood. The Tiste Andii assassin mages were hunting the Coin Bearer and Brood feared that if Rake got the Coin he would use it to kill Oponn. This would unbalance the power struggle in Darujhistan the Malazan Empire would take overt military action against Rake and like Pale Darujhistan would be destroyed in the ensuing battle. So to avoid this Brood ordered the Guard to protect the coinbearer.

Then why didn't Brood kill the con bearer and took the coin himself? If he wants to keep the coin away from Rake, I believe he would be the most appropriate place to keep it wouldn't it? Besides, he woouldn't need to protect the coin bearer no more so that the guards could be used somewhere else. It looks like a win-win to me

Because firstly brood is facing the malazan army in the field so he can't just take a week off to go to darujhistan. Secondly brood is a very powerful ascendant himself and his taking the coin would also attract a lot of trouble. third brood is a nice guy who doesn't kill innocent kids if he can help it. Fourth the coin bearer free in darujhistan makes up part of the power game there so preserving him preserves the balance

First: He doesn't have to go himself. His guards could do the job
Second: Why? Cotillion did not hesitate for the sword Chance?
Third: Didn't know that. Yet, He doesn't have to kill the boy in order to take the coin does he?
Fourth: Agreed

He can't get the guard to do it as whoever gets the coin maybe influenced.

Cotillion is a God. Brood is an ascendant.

[Itwæs Nom]

iso9001, on 27 September 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

Second: Why? Cotillion did not hesitate for the sword Chance?

iirc ascendants and gods dont really care about that sword that much, the coin is something bigger.
Also only having the sword is different from bearing that coin. I think the problem with sword might begin if it was taken by someone powerful who would want to use it regularly, which Cot prob isnt gonna do.

[Puck]

iso9001, on 27 September 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

Andorion, on 27 September 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

iso9001, on 27 September 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Andorion, on 25 September 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

Cheer for the help. Looks like most of it is going to be explained so I'm going to keep my eyes open...

A couple of questions have dawned on me while reading the above.

What exactly happened to to the Jaghut Tyrant? He gets a load of build up, destroys 5 dragons and then somehow finds himself trapped in a dream and then gets swallowed by an azath (?). Seems a bit messed up or am I missing something here?

And why were the Crimson Guard protecting the coin bearer? I can understand the Adjunct wanting to kill him. I can understand Rollick, Kruppe and others wanting to protect given he's either friend but the Crimson Guard seems random.

The fate of the Tyrant will be revealed later so RAFO

The Crimson Guard were protecting the Coibearer on the orders of Caladan Brood the warlord. This is revealed in chapter ten during Crone's conversation with brood. The Tiste Andii assassin mages were hunting the Coin Bearer and Brood feared that if Rake got the Coin he would use it to kill Oponn. This would unbalance the power struggle in Darujhistan the Malazan Empire would take overt military action against Rake and like Pale Darujhistan would be destroyed in the ensuing battle. So to avoid this Brood ordered the Guard to protect the coinbearer.

Then why didn't Brood kill the con bearer and took the coin himself? If he wants to keep the coin away from Rake, I believe he would be the most appropriate place to keep it wouldn't it? Besides, he woouldn't need to protect the coin bearer no more so that the guards could be used somewhere else. It looks like a win-win to me

Because firstly brood is facing the malazan army in the field so he can't just take a week off to go to darujhistan. Secondly brood is a very powerful ascendant himself and his taking the coin would also attract a lot of trouble. third brood is a nice guy who doesn't kill innocent kids if he can help it. Fourth the coin bearer free in darujhistan makes up part of the power game there so preserving him preserves the balance

First: He doesn't have to go himself. His guards could do the job
Second: Why? Cotillion did not hesitate for the sword Chance?
Third: Didn't know that. Yet, He doesn't have to kill the boy in order to take the coin does he?
Fourth: Agreed

1. Same argument. Brood's a nice guy. He wouldn't kill an innocent boy, so why would he make his people do that?
2. The coin was directly invested by Oponn, which is different from the sword Chance, which Paran named such.
3. Taking the coin ain't that easy. Rake's best night hunters failed because, duh, the coin is invested by Oponn - it'll make damn sure it remains where it's supposed to be and brings bad luck on those who want it, while making the Coinbearer lucky.

This post has been edited by Puckstein: 27 September 2015 - 02:07 PM

[iso9001]

Andorion, on 27 September 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

iso9001, on 27 September 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

Andorion, on 27 September 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

iso9001, on 27 September 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Andorion, on 25 September 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

Cheer for the help. Looks like most of it is going to be explained so I'm going to keep my eyes open...

A couple of questions have dawned on me while reading the above.

What exactly happened to to the Jaghut Tyrant? He gets a load of build up, destroys 5 dragons and then somehow finds himself trapped in a dream and then gets swallowed by an azath (?). Seems a bit messed up or am I missing something here?

And why were the Crimson Guard protecting the coin bearer? I can understand the Adjunct wanting to kill him. I can understand Rollick, Kruppe and others wanting to protect given he's either friend but the Crimson Guard seems random.

The fate of the Tyrant will be revealed later so RAFO

The Crimson Guard were protecting the Coibearer on the orders of Caladan Brood the warlord. This is revealed in chapter ten during Crone's conversation with brood. The Tiste Andii assassin mages were hunting the Coin Bearer and Brood feared that if Rake got the Coin he would use it to kill Oponn. This would unbalance the power struggle in Darujhistan the Malazan Empire would take overt military action against Rake and like Pale Darujhistan would be destroyed in the ensuing battle. So to avoid this Brood ordered the Guard to protect the coinbearer.

Then why didn't Brood kill the con bearer and took the coin himself? If he wants to keep the coin away from Rake, I believe he would be the most appropriate place to keep it wouldn't it? Besides, he woouldn't need to protect the coin bearer no more so that the guards could be used somewhere else. It looks like a win-win to me

Because firstly brood is facing the malazan army in the field so he can't just take a week off to go to darujhistan. Secondly brood is a very powerful ascendant himself and his taking the coin would also attract a lot of trouble. third brood is a nice guy who doesn't kill innocent kids if he can help it. Fourth the coin bearer free in darujhistan makes up part of the power game there so preserving him preserves the balance

First: He doesn't have to go himself. His guards could do the job
Second: Why? Cotillion did not hesitate for the sword Chance?
Third: Didn't know that. Yet, He doesn't have to kill the boy in order to take the coin does he?
Fourth: Agreed

He can't get the guard to do it as whoever gets the coin maybe influenced.

Cotillion is a God. Brood is an ascendant.

I thought Cotillion was also an ascendant, not a God. But when I checked the Wikia, it's written as "Patron God of Assassins". At first, I thought he was like Shadowthrone's second-in-command without his own High House (that makes him an ascendant not a God) but I guess I am mistaken.

BTW, if the coin cannot be taken that easily as you suggested, why did Serrat and Lorn tried to take it? Are they self-confident or just fools?

This post has been edited by iso9001: 27 September 2015 - 03:53 PM

[Andorion]

iso9001, on 27 September 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

Andorion, on 27 September 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

iso9001, on 27 September 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

Andorion, on 27 September 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

iso9001, on 27 September 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Andorion, on 25 September 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

Manderley, on 25 September 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

Cheer for the help. Looks like most of it is going to be explained so I'm going to keep my eyes open...

A couple of questions have dawned on me while reading the above.

What exactly happened to to the Jaghut Tyrant? He gets a load of build up, destroys 5 dragons and then somehow finds himself trapped in a dream and then gets swallowed by an azath (?). Seems a bit messed up or am I missing something here?

And why were the Crimson Guard protecting the coin bearer? I can understand the Adjunct wanting to kill him. I can understand Rollick, Kruppe and others wanting to protect given he's either friend but the Crimson Guard seems random.

The fate of the Tyrant will be revealed later so RAFO

The Crimson Guard were protecting the Coibearer on the orders of Caladan Brood the warlord. This is revealed in chapter ten during Crone's conversation with brood. The Tiste Andii assassin mages were hunting the Coin Bearer and Brood feared that if Rake got the Coin he would use it to kill Oponn. This would unbalance the power struggle in Darujhistan the Malazan Empire would take overt military action against Rake and like Pale Darujhistan would be destroyed in the ensuing battle. So to avoid this Brood ordered the Guard to protect the coinbearer.

Then why didn't Brood kill the con bearer and took the coin himself? If he wants to keep the coin away from Rake, I believe he would be the most appropriate place to keep it wouldn't it? Besides, he woouldn't need to protect the coin bearer no more so that the guards could be used somewhere else. It looks like a win-win to me

Because firstly brood is facing the malazan army in the field so he can't just take a week off to go to darujhistan. Secondly brood is a very powerful ascendant himself and his taking the coin would also attract a lot of trouble. third brood is a nice guy who doesn't kill innocent kids if he can help it. Fourth the coin bearer free in darujhistan makes up part of the power game there so preserving him preserves the balance

First: He doesn't have to go himself. His guards could do the job
Second: Why? Cotillion did not hesitate for the sword Chance?
Third: Didn't know that. Yet, He doesn't have to kill the boy in order to take the coin does he?
Fourth: Agreed

He can't get the guard to do it as whoever gets the coin maybe influenced.

Cotillion is a God. Brood is an ascendant.

I thought Cotillion was also an ascendant, not a God. But when I checked the Wikia, it's written as "Patron God of Assassins". At first, I thought he was like Shadowthrone's second-in-command without his own High House (that makes him an ascendant not a God) but I guess I am mistaken.

BTW, if the coin cannot be taken that easily as you suggested, why did Serrat and Lorn tried to take it? Are they self-confident or just fools?

Cotillion is very definitely a God.

Regarding Serrat and Lorn neither knew the exact way in which the coin functioned. Serrat was under orders from Rake and she had to do her best.
Lorn knew even less, save and except that the coin bearer was Oponns card in the game and taking him out was in the interests of the Empire.

[Herrick The Younger]

Hi all. I finished my second read of Gardens of the Moon a couple hours ago. I read up to the beginning of Reaper's Gale last year, but I quit because I became frustrated with the new characters, new location, and seemingly new storyline. Plus I didn't enjoy The Bonehunters very much and I was quite fatigued from reading it. However, I'm making another attempt to finish this series.

Why did The Empress and Rake both want Crokus killed? What effect was Oponn having on the war by making Crokus the Coin Bearer?

This post has been edited by Herrick: 05 April 2016 - 02:15 AM

[Andorion]

Herrick, on 05 April 2016 - 02:15 AM, said:

Hi all. I finished my second read of Gardens of the Moon a couple hours ago. I read up to the beginning of Reaper's Gale last year, but I quit because I became frustrated with the new characters, new location, and seemingly new storyline. Plus I didn't enjoy The Bonehunters very much and I was quite fatigued from reading it. However, I'm making another attempt to finish this series.

Why did The Empress and Rake both want Crokus killed? What effect was Oponn having on the war by making Crokus the Coin Bearer?

Crokus had essentially become a pawn of Oponn. he was having unnaturally good luck. Such an agent could in the long term be extremely dangerous. But far worse was the fact that a god, an actual god, was directly and openly interfering in mortal affairs by controlling a human. Explicit divine interference is never good. Because Gods are powerful and the most basic doctrine of the Malazan universe is Power draws Power. Oponn having an agent in Darujhistan immensely complicated the field for Rake who wanted to defend it and the Empress who wanted to conquer it.

[Abyss]

Herrick, on 05 April 2016 - 02:15 AM, said:

Why did The Empress and Rake both want Crokus killed? What effect was Oponn having on the war by making Crokus the Coin Bearer?

Oponn are gods of luck and chance, good and bad and generally random.
Rake and Laseen both had plans for Darujhistan, knew via the Deck or otherwise that Oponn was planning to become involved, and that Oponn's involvement could utterly screw their plans however careful they were, because that's what Luck does.
The Coin was Oponn's way to throw a random element into the city, knowing that however things played out between the Malazans, Rake's army and whoever else was involved, the coin would prompt the Coin Bearer to become involved and screw things up for someone, possibly everyone. Oponn doesn't care who gets screwed, and had a history of conflict with the Empire and Rake. Crocus was a random person, but well suited to the role, so not that random. Consider that because he was the Coin Bearer, he stopped Lorn from killing his friends, prevented Baruk's death, and was in place to meet Sorry just as the Rope left her mind.
On top of all that Oponn also threw Paran into the game by resurrecting him after Sorry took him out, and aspecting his sword.

[Herrick The Younger]

Thanks for the explanations!

Another question. Does the Empress know why The Rope possessed Sorry? Does she know about the motivations of Shadowthrone and The Rope? This may be something that's revealed in the later books but I don't recall if it was alluded to in Gardens of the Moon. I tried to ask the question without spoiling the "nature" of Shadowthrone and The Rope. I hope I'm not breaking any rules.

[Egwene]

Herrick, on 05 April 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

Thanks for the explanations!

Another question. Does the Empress know why The Rope possessed Sorry? Does she know about the motivations of Shadowthrone and The Rope? This may be something that's revealed in the later books but I don't recall if it was alluded to in Gardens of the Moon. I tried to ask the question without spoiling the "nature" of Shadowthrone and The Rope. I hope I'm not breaking any rules.

She might have been able to glean some broad hints with regards to the possession by diviners of the Deck, especially Tayschrenn. Given the way the possession came about, with a lot of her soldiers getting killed in the process, she would definitely have had to assume that the action was directed against the Empire and that it posed a future threat. At the time of GotM, she probably had some inklings about Shadowthrone and The Rope but nothing conclusive and even if that had been the case, she would still not have known their intentions with regards to Sorry.

This post has been edited by Egwene: 21 June 2016 - 03:55 PM