[QuickTidal]

So, since I THINK I'm the first of us Butcher fans to get their hands on the book early, I thought I'd pull an Abyss and do a running thoughts thread as I read, and once people have the book they can follow along and we can discuss.

I'm really enjoying the book so far, and I think that the prologue that was released wasn't even really indicative of the meat of the book, especially with regards to Gwen.

Spoilers for Prologue, and Chapters 1-6

Spoiler

Okay, so far we have a few leads:

Gwen Lancaster - scion of High House Lancaster
Benedict Lancaster - Her Cousin, and a "warriorborn" with lion eyes that are slitted. This has not been really explained yet...whether he's was spliced to be created, or if this is a natural birth trait in some of the Spire citizens.
Bridget Tagwynn - Daughter of Meat-grower Franklin Tagwynn, the last two members of a house that descended from a famous Spire Fleet Admiral which has now fallen on hard times. Also known as Littlemouse (in Cat).
Rowl - Cat. Prince of the Silent Paws tribe, son of Maul. Friend to Bridget.
Maul - Chief of Silent Paws Tribe.
Mirl - One of Maul's lead Whiskers (spy/scouts).
Reginald Astor - Scion of House Astor. Kind of a shitty jerk. Draco-like if you will. Thinks his shit don't stink and talks about being people's "betters"
Barnaby Astor - Related to Reggie, but doesn't SEEM (as of Chapter 6) to be as much of a shit as Reggie is.
Lady Lancaster - Gwen's mother.
Esterbrook - Captain of the Lancaster House Armsmen. Also Warriorborn with slitted cat eyes.
Captain Grimm - Captain of the Merchant vessel Predator, does odd jobs for the fleet Admiral of Spire Albion and in an engagement with rival Spire Aurora has his ship massively damaged.

So, what we begin with after the prologue where Gwen leaves to join the Spirearch Guard, is a few chapters with Captain Grimm and his ill-fated attempt to take out a bigger (but not huge) rival ship, only to be caught off guard by it being a trap and then massively damaged by a huge flagship that comes to the first ships aid.

It's pretty cool and done like a true nautical battle. There are a few things to learn: ships are kept aloft with the use of magic crystals and machines that focus them in interesting ways (Lift machine, Guns, shields)...the ships all have a "shroud" which is essentially a shield that is hard to penetrate. They have etherweb sails that catch the etheric waves of energy in the one layer of the sky, and Predator has traditional sails as well to catch wind when needed. Grimm seems cool, and this is our only look at him so far. He's the perennial Ship's Captain and as such he's easy to like. His second in command is a Fleet-man named Creedy who is basically being punished from the Navy proper and having to serve on the Predator under Grimm. I like him too.

Then the rest of the chapters up to 6 focus on the Houses and the politics of the Spire.

First of all I have to get this off my chest.

INTELLIGENT, SELF-AWARE, TALKING TRIBES OF CATS. No, for real. Rowl is our intro to that, and we learn through him and Bridget (whom he calls Littlemouse, and her father Wordkeeper) that she speaks "cat" and it's not a common tongue (the High House members don't speak it).

But yeah. And Butcher does a SPLENDID job of basically translating the attitudes of actual cats to the page as tribes of inhabitants. Rowl, for example, tells Bridget that Gwen and Benedict are "dangerous"...but Bridget explains he means this as a compliment. Very much the cat attitude.

When Rowl demands to be Bridget's second in a duel, I was like OF COURSE he does! Awesome. Simply awesome.

Just when I think that Butcher can't surprise me, he gives me fantasy tribes of talking cats.

Gwen is MUCH more realistic than she appeared in the prologue. The banter between her and her cousin is excellent, and when we throw Bridget into the fray you FEEL the difference between a High House and a lower House. So that's nice. They aren't just talking heads. At Chapter 6 I think I have a good grasp on their individual personalities. I love the fact that Gwen and Benedict are astonished that Bridget has no interest in playing spiteful games against House Astor, and they laugh about it.

Reggie feels like an ass, but in a way that seems apt...just when I thought he'd have cronies (he still does), one of his number (Barnaby) shows that not everyone thinks that the Scion of House Astor is the best guy...he at least shows compassion that things should not have progressed to a duel.

Rowl and Mirl's conversation as they watch the humans spar, is interesting. Something is coming and the Cat tribes are the first to be aware of it. Not sure who Longthinker is, (he's not s cat, so either another animal or a human they trust) but his assertion that somehting is going down puts Rowl on alert. And Mirl's nebulous mention of people "training" in the Wayist Temple is worrying...ninja monks?! Maybe.

Anyways, so far I'm TRULY enjoying this new series by Butcher. It's nothing mind-blowing yet, but the worldbuilding is on full display and I'm enjoying reading it a great deal.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 24 September 2015 - 12:57 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

May I just be the first in this thread to mention that we all hate you and hope you are perpetually stuck behind slow moving people and always have sand in your shoes for some reason.

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 23 September 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

May I just be the first in this thread to mention that we all hate you and hope you are perpetually stuck behind slow moving people and always have sand in your shoes for some reason.

Both of these things afflict me often. ESPECIALLY the slow moving people!

Luckily, I have a book to read while it happens.

[Andorion]

This would push the patience of Gandhi himself!

[QuickTidal]

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 23 September 2015 - 05:23 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

Dang it QT I'm trying to be grumpy with you here!

[QuickTidal]

Fair enough good sir. Grump away!

[QuickTidal]

Chapters 7-12

Spoiler

We continue along the lines of the forthcoming duel with preparations on the Bridget/Benedict/Gwen side...while Grimm is acosted by the Fleet commander (Rook) to sell his small (now wounded) ship to him...Grimm is well aware that Rook only wants the crystals within it as they are prized amongst Albion...especially the Core Crystal whoch are basically priceless. Seeing Grimm not afraid to wallop the guy in the face twice was awesome. Butcher isn't afraid to let his underdogs scruffle with the highborn and screw the consequences.

Grimm and Bayard's scrap with whatever it is that is invading the dark ventilation shafts was cool, and showed off how badass Grimm can be when provoked.

The Etherealists are interesting (Ferus and Folly)...even though I know nothing about them, they seem like they do something that drives them batty. They also seem precognitive as Ferus predicts the upcoming battle. I hope we see them again, Folly especially as she gave me a Harley Quinn / Delerium (Sandman) vibe.

The best bit in this spat of chapters was Gwen and Benedict running across the Monarch of Albion, Addison, slumming it (looking rather unkempt) to eat some food he loves. Gwen's misstep, not realizing who he is, in scolding him and his reaction (not to mention Benedcict's) is PRICELESS. I really liked this first glimpse at him. His interaction with both of them was great.

The duel leading into the attack by Aurora is WELL managed. I fully had no idea that I was not going to get to see the duel, and just as I thought that's what the next chapter would be about, Albion is attacked. The action swiftly shifts to Grimm so we can see what's happening in the shipyards and how the Aurorian plan to get the majority of the Fleet marines off-habble is pretty genius. And actually shows a flaw in how current Habble defenses are super flawed. I look forward to Grimm's ragtag crew dealing with practiced marines.

If I had to guess, the scraggly grey-haired calm guy in the crowd during the duel and attack that winks at Bridget...Longthinker? Probably. Dunno otherwise why he'd be so calm. He probably knew the attack was coming....but then why not alert the Spirearch Guard?

Barnaby continues to prove that although he is of House Astor, he is NO Reggie, after he is rescued from under fallen masonry in the attack by Gwen, Bridget and Benny...and the end of the chapter in the tunnels with Benny realizing that the Spirearch Guards that run past them could not have organized so quickly and are the Aurorian infiltrators disguised...and having Gwen fire her gauntlet into one of their faces was a great way to end the chapter.

REALLY really enjoying this book. So different from what Butcher has written up till now, but in a great way.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 25 September 2015 - 12:45 PM

[worry]

I don't want to read the spoilers but just let me know if he reveals what a windlass is in the first book or if we have to wait for the sequels.

[QuickTidal]

Briar King, on 25 September 2015 - 04:52 AM, said:

Does it have a map? What's the pg count?

It's nearly 630 pages, and it has a map of Spire Albion - basically of Habble Morning, and an Inset of Habble Landing...and the inner covers have a schematic-y picture of Grimm's airship Predator.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 25 September 2015 - 11:06 AM

[QuickTidal]

worry, on 25 September 2015 - 05:15 AM, said:

I don't want to read the spoilers but just let me know if he reveals what a windlass is in the first book or if we have to wait for the sequels.

A windlass is a winch that helps lift or haul something. I'm PRETTY sure (at this point anyways) that the title is an analogy for Grimm himself...but only time will tell.

Correction. I've just come across a proper description. Of the airships in the Cinder Spires universe, there are different kinds which serve different functions...barges and windlasses are actually types of lesser airships that serve banal functions. A windlass would be utilized to service people between the landings of the spire (ex. Morning to Landing) and only needs to go up and down really...requiring it to only have a minimal amount of crystals to power it.

This ties into the story early on with Captain Grimm and the Predator, which ISN'T a windlass or a barge...but the rest would be spoilers.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 25 September 2015 - 12:44 PM

[QuickTidal]

Chapters 13-19

Spoiler

There are a few major things that happen here that are fun. First and foremost, continuing the story form the cliffhanger in the 12th chapter, there is a kind of Mexican standoff in the ventilation tunnels with the Auroran Marines and Gwen and Benedict...and what's best about it is that it's REALLY a standoff. No one budges, even when the bad guy (holding Bridget hostage) won't let things go when he literally has no option that doesn't end with him captured or killed...his honour won't let him let go of what is not a situation he can win. Butcher is great at making his character personalities stick (this also shows later with Grimm), and the Auroran Marine (Diego) shows this facet well. Thankfully, badass cat prince Rowl goes to get help and things split well for all involved.

Sidenote: It's interesting, I find myself wondering how the Spires (seemingly tall stone mountains with habitations that tower above the mists on the planet below) of which there are at least two (probably more though) are Albion and Aurora. Albion seems to be inhabited by typically Anglo-saxon named people (Lancaster, Astor)...while I've now met two Auroran's (Diego Ciriaco, and the commander of their incursion Renaldo) have Spanish names. Is it possible that this is a post-apocalyptic earth in which these landmasses are all that's left of mountain ranges which have been winnowed to thin, and have the descendants of different countries in charge of them? Just a thought. There is also mention of a "New Dawn" era which was a few hundred years in the past. Food for thought.

The battle at the Lancaster vattery is excellently done. It shows that Grimm knows how to command (even on the ground) and that his second Creedy can not only take orders, but does so with military precision. And now we add Mr. Stern (a small, thin teen who followed Grimm out of the Fleet when he was discharged, and is a snapshot with a gun) to Kettle, Creedy, and Journeyman (the grumpy, foul-mouthed Engineer aboard the Predator)...so the supporting crew of Grimm's ship are slowly rounding out into feasible characters. Warfare by Gauntlet and Sword is pretty damned thrilling and easy to see in my head. Butcher has shrewdly used "crystal magic" for most of the fantastical elements, which means we don't need immediate explanation for their "magic" nor do we need a magic system explained up front.

Ferus and Folly continue to be the most interesting characters to watch, partially because they both seem to be LOONY (and provide endless entertainment with their banter)...but also because Ferus especially seems to be VERY powerful. In their chapter he took out Gauntleted Auroran guards like they were children with wooden sticks. He also seems to have some deep past which he finds distasteful...and I wonder who they are going to visit.

Lastly, we get a bit of a window on who helped the Auroran's get into Spire Albion to begin with as commander Renaldo meets with the mysterious Lady Cavendish. She's pretty cold, and I want to know more about her.

I like that it seems that Spire Aurora was built upon stepping on your fellow man to get ahead and money grubbing...so when Renaldo walks through Habble Landing (a place of moderate to low income) in Spire Albion, he's disgusted by what he sees as the poor living middle class, while at home they apparently have to fight for every penny of wealth.

[Tiste Simeon]

I thought a windlass was a Northern girl with flatulence problems...

[Coco with marshmallows]

bought yesterday.

starting chapter 24 now.

thoroughly enjoying it so far.

[QuickTidal]

It's definitely more CODEX ALERA than DRESDEN...but I'd not say Sanderson persay.

[QuickTidal]

Chapters 20-30

Spoiler

The Spirearch has now thrown our ragtag team of characters together to get Ferus to Habble Landing to find his "Enemy" for some secretive reason to deal with the war. So Grimm and his ship and crew are co-opted under the promise of new crystals to ferry the team there. The new crystals seem to impress and make the Engineer Journeyman gleeful...so it sounds like Predator will be a ship to be reckoned with.

We've now met the main religion in the Spire, Wayism...the temple of which houses a MASSIVE library...though it should be noted that small groups of people (Bridget and her father among them) seem to pray to the "God In Heaven" which sounds like it's the Christian god of Abraham (one of the early notes that this world is a post-apocalyptic earth; the very first of those being that the books are the Cinder Spires series (denoting that perhaps the Spires are actually the hardened-cores of leftover volcanoes (See: Black Tusk in Whistler/Blackcomb)?). We've met a monk (ninja monks!) who has trained Benedict in the past. It seems like they REALLY take no sides in any conflict.

Gwen still feels quite petulant. I think her growth over the series is going to be slow. She's quick to anger and offense, will discharge her gauntlet at the first sign of trouble (even when it's not needed on a crowded street), and acts VERY much the spoiled daughter of a High House, offending the Captain and crew of the Predfator, Bridget, Master Ferus and Folly, and even on occasion her cousin...though he calls her on it and refers to it as a "Gwennism". It was nice to see Creedy put her in her place for her rather inflammatory words about Grimm. She's obtuse enough not to trust that Grimm's story is not how she heard it EVEN after the Spirearch shows his trust in the man. She's not annoying, but petulant for sure.

Folly is probably my favourite character right now. Her whole manner of talking to her crystals in a jar instead of talking directly to people is charming. It also speaks to me as a device....for when she REALLY needs to be serious about something in the plot....guaranteed she'll talk directly to someone's face and they'll all be aghast. She's great though. VERY Harley Quinn.

When they reach Habble Landing, we finally get some mention of other Spires than Albion and Aurora (as Bridget sees foreigners amongst the crowds)...Olympians, Atlanteans, Nephisians, and Pikers. So it will be interesting to see where they came from.

The surface is touched upon again. It's noted that wood is EXPENSIVE....probably because of the fact that it has to be gotten from the surface (which has been referred to as a green jungle hell), creatures from their are "wild" and dangerous.

A few questions I've had so far about setting. The spire and Habbles. It sounds like they are levels all the way down the spire...like a condo building...just 2 miles wide at any point and high enough that each level has ceilings that make everyone not go mad from claustrophobia. It SOUNDS like Spirestone is translucent...and in Habble Morning (the top habble) the ceiling is made of it enough to have a natural light bleed through, just not at full sun window strength...but what about further down? Are all Habbles cut into spirestone? If not is everything lit by ambient light crystals?

Anyways, things are starting to come together and we'll see just who Ferus has come to Landing to visit and why soon I expect.

[Maark Abbott]

So, uh, BK said you lot have Skies? *scratch scratch* I'll, uh, I'll be buying this soon then. If the comparison is apt, so much the better. I finished that game like 15 times.

[Maark Abbott]

And purely based on one page of BK's assumptions, I've gone and bought it. Hardback and all.

[End of Disc One]

Briar King, on 30 September 2015 - 02:31 AM, said:

Oh badass! I'm reminded of the Dreamcast game Skies of Arcadia!! I'm only on ch 1 but I hope this style persist.

One of my favorite games ever. IMO it has the most likable full cast in any video game I've played, and I love the feel of sailing through the skies.

[Imperial Historian]

I really enjoyed this, definitely butcher's strongest start to a series (though that isn't saying much). Enjoyable cast of characters, fun world and some nice world building in the background. I was sceptical at first from the previews but I'm in.