[belisar6]

In House of Chains, everyone's wondering if the Tavore's otataral sword will be enough to single-handedly neutralize the Whirlwind. But in Deadhouse Gates there were hundreds of prisoners mining the stuff. So far, the Adjunct's sword and Kalam's dagger are treated as unique items. What exactly is the Malazan empire doing with all the otataral they're mining? It seems like they should have mined enough to provide otataral items spread throughout their regular troops, to protect them from the kind of devastating sorcery we saw at Pale.

[Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai]

they can't make it too common or their mage cadres will be useless, plus I think it is difficult to manufacture but thats just a guess, I think that the mages are mining it mainly as a punishment and to keep them out of the way

[Gorefest]

Mainly punishment indeed. So far the Malazan empire has predominantly come across opponents who are vastly inferior to them on the magic front, so why risk killing off your most powerful asset by lugging around chests full or otataral to the battlefield? Also, it is supposedly a very difficult mineral to work with and any otataral 'weapon' is rather useless as an actual weapon (very brittle), so it is more a status symbol and on occasion comes in handy against the odd aggressive mage.

[Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai]

I would agree that the weapons would be quite useless as some of them are carried around in a crate, they must not be a commonly used weapon to be carried around as such.

[Andorion]

One of the principal strengths of the Empire is it's late cadre. If you distribute Otataral among the rank and file you risk it finding it's way into the wrong hands. And one fine day on a battlefield without warning the mate cadre is neutralized. Far better to control the supply and source and stockpile it out of harms way

[belisar6]

I get it from a story stand point. It would be a lot less interesting if all your High Mages could be neutralized by a bunch of grunts carrying around an item made from otataral, or even just a pouch of raw otataral dust. Still, if they want to make that rare, it seems like it should be more like kryptonite, found in the odd meteor crash, etc.

[Gorefest]

But how is it not rare? The only known location of otataral is otataral island. And meteor crash is a very apt metaphore there....

[Abyss]

belisar6, on 16 June 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

In House of Chains, everyone's wondering if the Tavore's otataral sword will be enough to single-handedly neutralize the Whirlwind. But in Deadhouse Gates there were hundreds of prisoners mining the stuff. So far, the Adjunct's sword and Kalam's dagger are treated as unique items. What exactly is the Malazan empire doing with all the otataral they're mining? It seems like they should have mined enough to provide otataral items spread throughout their regular troops, to protect them from the kind of devastating sorcery we saw at Pale.

As of HoC, I didn't get the sense that there was an abundance of Otataral out there. It's around sure - Lorn and Tavore's swords, Kalam's knife, some of the Red Swords' armour, the walls of whatever city... but i figured the massive mining setup seen in DG was just to produce a relatively small amount that would then be used very selectively.

[worry]

Kellanved's last name was De Beers.

[Andorion]

Abyss, on 16 June 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

belisar6, on 16 June 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

In House of Chains, everyone's wondering if the Tavore's otataral sword will be enough to single-handedly neutralize the Whirlwind. But in Deadhouse Gates there were hundreds of prisoners mining the stuff. So far, the Adjunct's sword and Kalam's dagger are treated as unique items. What exactly is the Malazan empire doing with all the otataral they're mining? It seems like they should have mined enough to provide otataral items spread throughout their regular troops, to protect them from the kind of devastating sorcery we saw at Pale.

As of HoC, I didn't get the sense that there was an abundance of Otataral out there. It's around sure - Lorn and Tavore's swords, Kalam's knife, some of the Red Swords' armour, the walls of whatever city... but i figured the massive mining setup seen in DG was just to produce a relatively small amount that would then be used very selectively.

There may also be unknown deposits and sources. The red stuff the Teblor use to make blood-oil is possibly a form of Otataral. But its clearly rare and valuable if you remember that Baruk used it to pay Rallick in GotM instead of a bag of gold or whatever

[Kellanved's shadow]

Also Otataral if not handled properly can lead to some very nasty side effects especially if it is refined. The blood oil used by the Teblor can make you go crazy with battle fever if it makes even the slightest contact with the skin. If you have long exposure to it or if you rub the refined stuff on your body like Rallik did then you can become immune to magic. This would be a problem if the empire want's to track you down or just to simply find your location if your under cover. Along with the fact that Otataral makes your weapon useless for fighting and you wonder why the Malazans rarely use it.

[A Hound of Shadow]

It was also mentioned in HoC that in the forging process when using Otataral, it reacts very badly to heat. Smiths had a heap of trouble figuring out how to forge it safely. This, plus the greater negatives against the Malazan magic strengths and assuming it is a rare material (as these previous replies have highlighted), indicates that very few weapons are in circulation.

[Planck]

It's mentioned there is otataral in Northern Genabackis where the Teblor live, hence Karsa's aversion to magic.

I always wondered what Kalam meant when he said that otataral had a weird reaction with Moranth munitions.

[Gorefest]

You get mules making tea.

[Sir.Bumpaclottus]

Planck, on 19 July 2016 - 09:49 PM, said:

It's mentioned there is otataral in Northern Genabackis where the Teblor live, hence Karsa's aversion to magic.

I always wondered what Kalam meant when he said that otataral had a weird reaction with Moranth munitions.

Is that ever proven or mentioned again? ( about bloodoil and otataral connection. )

Cause in HoC that was just pure speculation not really based on anything, just a guess.

So if its not proven or mentioned again, ill rather go with the jaghut women's theory on Karsas resistance to magic. Since its a waay cooler one.

[Kruppe of Darujhistan]

Sir.Bumpaclottus, on 28 May 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

So if its not proven or mentioned again, ill rather go with the jaghut women's theory on Karsas resistance to magic. Since its a waay cooler one.

Please refresh our memories on the Jaghut woman's theory.

[Sir.Bumpaclottus]

Kruppe of Darujhistan, on 29 May 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

Sir.Bumpaclottus, on 28 May 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

So if its not proven or mentioned again, ill rather go with the jaghut women's theory on Karsas resistance to magic. Since its a waay cooler one.

Please refresh our memories on the Jaghut woman's theory.

Oh, yeah, thought i had written it.

When karsa lifts the stone thats infused with tellan or something, that traps the jaghut. He just lifts it and break the magic.

And she says something like: wow, amazing, never seen that before, Ignorance honed into a weapon.

So i took it as, his resistance to magic comes from that he just dont believe in magic. Hes convinced magic is bullshit. So he resist it on sheer will or faith. Like some kind of reversed placebo effect.

Hope that made sense, not so good at writing in english as i am reading it.

[Abyss]

Sir.Bumpaclottus, on 30 May 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

Kruppe of Darujhistan, on 29 May 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

Sir.Bumpaclottus, on 28 May 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

So if its not proven or mentioned again, ill rather go with the jaghut women's theory on Karsas resistance to magic. Since its a waay cooler one.

Please refresh our memories on the Jaghut woman's theory.

Oh, yeah, thought i had written it.

When karsa lifts the stone thats infused with tellan or something, that traps the jaghut. He just lifts it and break the magic.

And she says something like: wow, amazing, never seen that before, Ignorance honed into a weapon.

So i took it as, his resistance to magic comes from that he just dont believe in magic. Hes convinced magic is bullshit. So he resist it on sheer will or faith. Like some kind of reversed placebo effect.

Hope that made sense, not so good at writing in english as i am reading it.

i always took it as various things were in play... Northern Genabackis has otataral deposits, causing the trees and whatever else to leech it to weird effect. The native Teblor are using bloodwood and bloodoil and more or less living on the stuff so they all have a level of healing and magic resistance. Karsa is a particularly powerful example of a Teblor, and when he lifts Calm's rock, he's already started gathering his own warren of souls, point being he's sufficiently powerful to ignore the effect of the investments on the rock. Calm is commenting on how willful he is. It's not that he doesn't believe in magic, it's that he doesn't care because he believes it won't affect him. He's ignoring the fact that it should.

Also, for what it's worth, the rock was placed by Imass and/or Icarium, so Elder warrens, Tellan and maybe Omtose Phellack likely. Otataral is less effective against that.

[Sir.Bumpaclottus]

Abyss, on 30 May 2017 - 05:32 PM, said:

Sir.Bumpaclottus, on 30 May 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

Kruppe of Darujhistan, on 29 May 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

Sir.Bumpaclottus, on 28 May 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

So if its not proven or mentioned again, ill rather go with the jaghut women's theory on Karsas resistance to magic. Since its a waay cooler one.

Please refresh our memories on the Jaghut woman's theory.

Oh, yeah, thought i had written it.

When karsa lifts the stone thats infused with tellan or something, that traps the jaghut. He just lifts it and break the magic.

And she says something like: wow, amazing, never seen that before, Ignorance honed into a weapon.

So i took it as, his resistance to magic comes from that he just dont believe in magic. Hes convinced magic is bullshit. So he resist it on sheer will or faith. Like some kind of reversed placebo effect.

Hope that made sense, not so good at writing in english as i am reading it.

i always took it as various things were in play... Northern Genabackis has otataral deposits, causing the trees and whatever else to leech it to weird effect. The native Teblor are using bloodwood and bloodoil and more or less living on the stuff so they all have a level of healing and magic resistance. Karsa is a particularly powerful example of a Teblor, and when he lifts Calm's rock, he's already started gathering his own warren of souls, point being he's sufficiently powerful to ignore the effect of the investments on the rock. Calm is commenting on how willful he is. It's not that he doesn't believe in magic, it's that he doesn't care because he believes it won't affect him. He's ignoring the fact that it should.

Also, for what it's worth, the rock was placed by Imass and/or Icarium, so Elder warrens, Tellan and maybe Omtose Phellack likely. Otataral is less effective against that.

I meant the jaghut woman he frees, right before he gets his horse. But pretty much the same thing do.

But are there any evidence or later mention of any connection between blodoil and otataral?

Yea thats what i meant with not believing in magic ( That it cant affect him and he believes it some weak bullshit.) He can see it so he knows it exist.

So i understood it that he believes so much that it becomes true.

[Abyss]

Right, i confused Calm and the Jaghut woman, my bad, sorry, but same explanation holds. Moreso because Karsa is more powerful by that point in the story.

Someone, possibly Nom, possibly Leoman, makes the Bloodwood/oil Otataral connection, but i'm blanking on who.