[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 11 September 2018 - 06:46 PM, said:

A great thread on why it's so bad to allow Ford or even be okay with... his desire to use the Notwithstanding Clause for the Toronto Council decision he dislikes and wants to override...

click for entire thread..

The province elected him.
Anyone who was okay with voting for him isn't going to flinch now that he's showing the big bad courts and the evil city of Toronto who's boss.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 11 September 2018 - 07:02 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 11 September 2018 - 06:46 PM, said:

A great thread on why it's so bad to allow Ford or even be okay with... his desire to use the Notwithstanding Clause for the Toronto Council decision he dislikes and wants to override...

click for entire thread..

The province elected him.
Anyone who was okay with voting for him isn't going to flinch now that he's showing the big bad courts and the evil city of Toronto who's boss.

40% of people in Ontario isn't "the province" but that's another discussion. In his presser he kept spouting "2.3million people elected me"...and I'm over here like "Doug, there are nearly 14 million people in Ontario chucklefuck, and 3.9million of THEM didn't vote for you. never mind the 42% that didn't bother to vote."

What bothers me most is that my whole family (original family, not my wife) are all die-hard PC. And they voted him in because he was "Anyone but Liberal/NDP".

This is on them...I've called them out on this directly since yesterday, and SILENCE. From every single one of them.

Man, sometimes family is shit.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 11 September 2018 - 07:13 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 11 September 2018 - 07:11 PM, said:

...
40% of people in Ontario isn't "the province" but that's another discussion. In his presser he kept spouting "2.3million people elected me"...and I'm over here like "Doug, there are nearly 14 million people in Ontario chucklefuck, and 3.9million of THEM didn't vote for you. never mind the 42% that didn't bother to vote."

What bothers me most is that my whole family (original family, not my wife) are all die-hard PC. And they voted him in because he was "Anyone but Liberal/NDP".

This is on them...I've called them out on this directly since yesterday, and SILENCE. From every single one of them.

Man, sometimes family is shit.

Thing is, he's not wrong. The % who didn't vote waived their right to have a say. They voted to let the people who bothered voting decide. Democracy in action.


Did you expect your family to respond with 'yeah, oops, we should have voted for Wynn'? It's become clear a party can run a semi-sentient rutabaga as leader candidate and win if the opposing party has pissed people off badly enough.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 11 September 2018 - 07:56 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 11 September 2018 - 07:11 PM, said:

...
40% of people in Ontario isn't "the province" but that's another discussion. In his presser he kept spouting "2.3million people elected me"...and I'm over here like "Doug, there are nearly 14 million people in Ontario chucklefuck, and 3.9million of THEM didn't vote for you. never mind the 42% that didn't bother to vote."

What bothers me most is that my whole family (original family, not my wife) are all die-hard PC. And they voted him in because he was "Anyone but Liberal/NDP".

This is on them...I've called them out on this directly since yesterday, and SILENCE. From every single one of them.

Man, sometimes family is shit.

Thing is, he's not wrong. The % who didn't vote waived their right to have a say. They voted to let the people who bothered voting decide. Democracy in action.


Did you expect your family to respond with 'yeah, oops, we should have voted for Wynn'? It's become clear a party can run a semi-sentient rutabaga as leader candidate and win if the opposing party has pissed people off badly enough.

I mean , I would hope they could see to holding the leader they elected accountable for shitty decisions. They can’t seem to.

[QuickTidal]

The Public/Courts: So what's your hurry and intention with Bill 5?

Doug Ford: (don't say revenge, don't say revenge)....REVENGE!

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 12 September 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

The Public/Courts: So what's your hurry and intention with Bill 5?

Doug Ford: (don't say revenge, don't say revenge)....REVENGE!

[Nevyn]

Abyss, on 11 September 2018 - 07:56 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 11 September 2018 - 07:11 PM, said:

...
40% of people in Ontario isn't "the province" but that's another discussion. In his presser he kept spouting "2.3million people elected me"...and I'm over here like "Doug, there are nearly 14 million people in Ontario chucklefuck, and 3.9million of THEM didn't vote for you. never mind the 42% that didn't bother to vote."

What bothers me most is that my whole family (original family, not my wife) are all die-hard PC. And they voted him in because he was "Anyone but Liberal/NDP".

This is on them...I've called them out on this directly since yesterday, and SILENCE. From every single one of them.

Man, sometimes family is shit.

Thing is, he's not wrong. The % who didn't vote waived their right to have a say. They voted to let the people who bothered voting decide. Democracy in action.

Did you expect your family to respond with 'yeah, oops, we should have voted for Wynn'? It's become clear a party can run a semi-sentient rutabaga as leader candidate and win if the opposing party has pissed people off badly enough.

He got only 40% of the people who DID vote.

And he never had reducing city council on the platform he put before ontario voters.

So yeah, he won. But when he is arguing his council change is the will of the people, that is about 5000 levels of bull****.

I mean, even among those who did vote for him, he probably would not have wide support for this measure. I mean he could sell it to them with populist nonsense, but the truth is most of them simply don't care.

But that is also the potential problem. People who don't care about the council should still be up in arms about the manner of rushing this change, and then such a perverted use of the notwithstanding clause, but most of them will just shrug and think of it like inside baseball, and PC MPPs who should be facing heat not to support this will walk away clean.

[QuickTidal]

Caroline Mulroney finally made a comment....regurgitating Ford's bullshit talking points too.

Boy, she ended her own political career faster than I thought she would.

My hope (and it's kind of slim, but I'm being pessimistic) is that the political price for using the NWSC is not only the next provincial election, but the demise of the PC party as it is right now.

But yeah, Ford's whole "We have mandate!" thing annoyed the shit out of me and it annoyed me more than NONE of the press gathered at that presser felt the burning need to say to him "How can this be a mandate of your voters when you NEVER mentioned this to voters?"

I can't stand this shit.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 12 September 2018 - 06:36 PM, said:

... "How can this be a mandate of your voters when you NEVER mentioned this to voters?"
....

"Because they elected me and now I HAAAAAVE THE POWERRRRRRRR!"

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 12 September 2018 - 06:51 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 12 September 2018 - 06:36 PM, said:

... "How can this be a mandate of your voters when you NEVER mentioned this to voters?"
....

"Because they elected me and now I HAAAAAVE THE POWERRRRRRRR!"

Ugh.

I can't watch this Trump-like bullshit fly here. It's sickening.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 12 September 2018 - 07:06 PM, said:

Abyss, on 12 September 2018 - 06:51 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 12 September 2018 - 06:36 PM, said:

... "How can this be a mandate of your voters when you NEVER mentioned this to voters?"
....

"Because they elected me and now I HAAAAAVE THE POWERRRRRRRR!"

Ugh.

I can't watch this Trump-like bullshit fly here. It's sickening.

Yep. We thought we were better than this. We thought wrong.

[Nevyn]

QuickTidal, on 12 September 2018 - 06:36 PM, said:

Caroline Mulroney finally made a comment....regurgitating Ford's bullshit talking points too.

Boy, she ended her own political career faster than I thought she would.

My hope (and it's kind of slim, but I'm being pessimistic) is that the political price for using the NWSC is not only the next provincial election, but the demise of the PC party as it is right now.

But yeah, Ford's whole "We have mandate!" thing annoyed the shit out of me and it annoyed me more than NONE of the press gathered at that presser felt the burning need to say to him "How can this be a mandate of your voters when you NEVER mentioned this to voters?"

I can't stand this shit.

I mean, you could argue she was ending it either way, or more if she went against Ford.

As much as I want to see establishment MPPs pushing back on this chucklehead, if you can't get a group together and agreed, the ones with bigger career aspirations won't dare oppose him. And as a cabinet member she might have to resign her post to vote against it (I forget but I believe that is the case).

But yes, if the Tories all party line pass this, I would like to see even the MPPs in "safe" ridings to feel the pain. I just dont consider it likely.

[rant]

NB party leaders English debate (traditionally we have leaders debates in both french and english) today (BTW NB is having an election lol).
Moderater literally (using literally properly) forgot the NDP leader 3 times, which was hilarious and exactly in keeping with NB politics (I dont think they've ever filled a seat here)....but really unfortunate as she was also the only woman on stage.

This post has been edited by rant: 13 September 2018 - 02:04 AM

[QuickTidal]

And the use of Sec 33. (notwithstanding clause) to overrule a superior court judge and ram Bill 5 through passes 63-17.

Not ONE Tory broke fucking ranks. Not one spine amongst them.

Every single Non-Conservative MP banged their desks and made a scene as it came time to read for the vote...and each and every one was named by name by the speaker, and removed from the Legislature for disobedience. I'm exceedingly proud of this little act of defiance. It doesn't amount to much, but it's pretty much the MAXIMUM of what the Opposition CAN do to object to the use of the Clause, and I applaud that they did that for us. Before the day was over my friend and I were talking about it, and both of us mentioned how we liked that people in the public gallery were making protests but that we wanted the opposition to be as obstinate directly...and they were. My respect for all of them went up.

The Tory's can get fucked. Towing DoFo's party line dictator bullshit, they all need to be held accountable in the next election for this. This event should not be brushed under the rug and forgotten (as I THINK they hope it might be). It needs to be rubbed in their cowardly little faces every single chance we get.

In case anyone is interested, here is the full list of Ayes and Nays.

Spoiler

Ayes

Anand, Deepak
Baber, Roman
Babikian, Aris
Barrett, Toby
Bethlenfalvy, Peter
Bouma, Will
Calandra, Paul
Cho, Raymond Sung Joon
Cho, Stan
Clark, Steve
Coe, Lorne
Crawford, Stephen
Cuzzetto, Rudy
Downey, Doug
Dunlop, Jill
Elliott, Christine
Fedeli, Victor
Ford, Doug
Fullerton, Merrilee
Ghamari, Goldie
Gill, Parm
Hardeman, Ernie
Harris, Mike
Hogarth, Christine
Jones, Sylvia
Kanapathi, Logan
Karahalios, Belinda
Ke, Vincent
Khanjin, Andrea
Kramp, Daryl
Kusendova, Natalia
Lecce, Stephen
MacLeod, Lisa
Martin, Robin
Martow, Gila
McDonell, Jim
McKenna, Jane
Miller, Norman
Mulroney, Caroline
Oosterhoff, Sam
Pang, Billy
Pettapiece, Randy
Phillips, Rod
Rasheed, Kaleed
Rickford, Greg
Roberts, Jeremy
Romano, Ross
Sabawy, Sheref
Sandhu, Amarjot
Sarkaria, Prabmeet Singh
Scott, Laurie
Simard, Amanda
Skelly, Donna
Smith, Dave
Smith, Todd
Thanigasalam, Vijay
Thompson, Lisa M.
Tibollo, Michael A.
Triantafilopoulos, Effie J.
Wai, Daisy
Walker, Bill
Wilson, Jim
Yakabuski, John

Nays

Armstrong, Teresa J.
Bisson, Gilles
Coteau, Michael
Des Rosiers, Nathalie
Fraser, John
French, Jennifer K.
Gélinas, France
Gravelle, Michael
Hatfield, Percy
Hunter, Mitzie
Lindo, Laura Mae
Mamakwa, Sol
Miller, Paul
Sattler, Peggy
Schreiner, Mike
Vanthof, John
Wynne, Kathleen O.

[QuickTidal]

Also, on my way home from work last night I saw the 77-year old woman, who was thrown into handcuffs and removed from the Public Gallery at Queen's Park yesterday for refusing to move when the Gallery was cleared, just outside my subway station. I recognized her based on her clothes, and hair (both of which are clear in the video of her being led out of the Gallery). She was walking quite slowly, as if it were difficult in some way. Perhaps a bad hip, knees or other daily affliction we all suffer as we age. I didn't want to disturb her, even to tell her "thank you" as I felt I would be invading her privacy to do so. But at one point before the traffic light turned for her to cross the crosswalk, she looked up and saw me and I smiled and gave her a thumbs up. She crooked a bit of a smile back at me in response. That was it. A little tiny moment.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 13 September 2018 - 03:22 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 13 September 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

... they all need to be held accountable in the next election for this. This event should not be brushed under the rug and forgotten (as I THINK they hope it might be). It needs to be rubbed in their cowardly little faces every single chance we get. ...

Too far off to really matter i fear. Probably why they felt so comfortable doing it. Four years from now no one whose vote may shift is going to care about that TO specific too-many-bureaucrats thing that happened in 2018.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 13 September 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 13 September 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

... they all need to be held accountable in the next election for this. This event should not be brushed under the rug and forgotten (as I THINK they hope it might be). It needs to be rubbed in their cowardly little faces every single chance we get. ...

Too far off to really matter i fear. Probably why they felt so comfortable doing it. Four years from now no one whose vote may shift is going to care about that TO specific too-many-bureaucrats thing that happened in 2018.

Oh no, I'm thinking that some other use of the NWC will occur between now and then, and it's going to hammer home what they've done.

[Nevyn]

One thing that worries me.

Most have been treating this mostly as a Ford ism.


Settling scores from his time on council, picking fights with the judge, and generally being autocratic. But there is also the matter of why it is so important for him to have it happen for THIS election.


It feels to me like this could also be a temporary voter suppression tactic. With the ridings all redone, you get fewer people organized to do a run and fewer people knowing or caring who to vote for. So if I were a Torontonian I'd be concerned that Ford may be organizing supporters with a plan to dramatic shift the balance of council based on an organization and turnout strategy.

That would then give a window where he controls queen's park and the city and can push through subway plans and other such municipal Fordisms.

[QuickTidal]

Nevyn, on 13 September 2018 - 04:45 PM, said:

One thing that worries me.

Most have been treating this mostly as a Ford ism.


Settling scores from his time on council, picking fights with the judge, and generally being autocratic. But there is also the matter of why it is so important for him to have it happen for THIS election.


It feels to me like this could also be a temporary voter suppression tactic. With the ridings all redone, you get fewer people organized to do a run and fewer people knowing or caring who to vote for. So if I were a Torontonian I'd be concerned that Ford may be organizing supporters with a plan to dramatic shift the balance of council based on an organization and turnout strategy.

That would then give a window where he controls queen's park and the city and can push through subway plans and other such municipal Fordisms.

The rush is 100% a gerrymander. Toronto core is very much NDP/Liberal en masse. Busting the Wards into larger and less, makes it easier to push the PC voters to have more of a voice in the areas where they traditionally haven't. You also get the offset of the confusion making councillors who might run not want to run, and people not knowing when to vote. And to give his PC'Fordlike councillors or others who might run like that a possibility to fuck the council into a Ford one.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 13 September 2018 - 05:08 PM

[QuickTidal]

Nail Cheese (AKA a perfect satirical summation of what has just happened)