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The Canada Politics Thread American politics' smaller less interesting cousin!

#101 User is offline   Mentalist 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 04:33 AM

Looks like a Lib majority govt. Libs swept most of the GTA, esp the west end.

I'd have preferred a coalition w/ NDP, but at least Harper's gone. Now let's see how good the Libs are at cleaning up other people's messes....
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And I want to state that Ment has out-weaseled me by far in this game.
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#102 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 01:07 PM

View PostMentalist, on 20 October 2015 - 04:33 AM, said:

Looks like a Lib majority govt. Libs swept most of the GTA, esp the west end.

I'd have preferred a coalition w/ NDP, but at least Harper's gone. Now let's see how good the Libs are at cleaning up other people's messes....


A coalition likely would not have happened anyway. NDP and liberal need to compete for the same votes. But the NDP likely would not have toppled a liberal minority for awhile so that would have been ideal.

Still, happy no Harper day.
Tatts early in SH game: Hmm, so if I'm liberal I should have voted Nein to make sure I'm president? I'm not that selfish

Tatts later in SAME game: I'm going to be a corrupt official. I have turned from my liberal ways, and now will vote against the pesky liberals. Viva la Fascism.
When Venge's turn comes, he will get a yes from Mess, Dolmen, Nevyn and Venge but a no from the 3 fascists and me. **** with my Government, and i'll **** with yours
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#103 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 02:01 PM

Wow. Just wow. Wasn't expecting THAT.
By election day it was tight, Lib or Con minority seemed likely, but a Lib near sweep, NDP slaughter... nope, didn't see that coming.

This should be interesting.


Aside - and a Bloc re-emergence in Quebec. Fuck but no one was expecting THAT. The NDP must feel amazingly silly.
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#104 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 02:16 PM

View PostAbyss, on 20 October 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

Wow. Just wow. Wasn't expecting THAT.
By election day it was tight, Lib or Con minority seemed likely, but a Lib near sweep, NDP slaughter... nope, didn't see that coming.

This should be interesting.


Aside - and a Bloc re-emergence in Quebec. Fuck but no one was expecting THAT. The NDP must feel amazingly silly.


Can't say I expected it but nothing that happened last night surprised me. Once Mulcair's Quebec support started to crater, the strong anti-Harper crowd all started to flock to Trudeau. The NDP ran an all-or-nothing campaign for government, and once it was clear they would not form one, they weren't super appealing as part of a power share.

The bloc comeback is not a super shock. They can partly thank Harper for politicizing the Niqab and Trudeau for pointing out Mulcair's two way politics. At the end of the day it is a small comeback that still leaves them below official party status, and Duceppe did not get his seat back.
Tatts early in SH game: Hmm, so if I'm liberal I should have voted Nein to make sure I'm president? I'm not that selfish

Tatts later in SAME game: I'm going to be a corrupt official. I have turned from my liberal ways, and now will vote against the pesky liberals. Viva la Fascism.
When Venge's turn comes, he will get a yes from Mess, Dolmen, Nevyn and Venge but a no from the 3 fascists and me. **** with my Government, and i'll **** with yours
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#105 User is offline   LinearPhilosopher 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 02:54 PM

View PostNevyn, on 20 October 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

View PostMentalist, on 20 October 2015 - 04:33 AM, said:

Looks like a Lib majority govt. Libs swept most of the GTA, esp the west end.

I'd have preferred a coalition w/ NDP, but at least Harper's gone. Now let's see how good the Libs are at cleaning up other people's messes....


A coalition likely would not have happened anyway. NDP and liberal need to compete for the same votes. But the NDP likely would not have toppled a liberal minority for awhile so that would have been ideal.

Still, happy no Harper day.


that and mulcair stated several times trudeau repeatedly shot down any proposal for a coalition.

End of the day im not big on trudeau but its a welcome change over harper. Im curious as to whether or not he can undo the damage harper did. I'd like to start seeing more funding go to the cbc
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#106 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 03:06 PM

I'm happy to see Trudeau in office with a majority (I voted Lib).

Majorities get shit done.

And Trudeau is only about 5 years older than me, so he pretty much grew up in my era, and cares about the things I care about.

I heard that great swathes of young people flocked out to vote this time (which is rare)...and they basically showed the Baby Boomer's who have been entrenched Conservatives-for-LifeTM that they were no longer willing to live under a traditionalist yoke with a man in charge who looked after the 1%ers and no one else.
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#107 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 03:30 PM

One of the ironies of this election result is that the conservative strategy of the extra long campaign - which was designed to exhaust people and get them not to vote, as well as get certain issue discussions as far as possible from election day, backfired spectacularly. And the Niqab politics that hurt the NDP became a gift to Trudeau

The NDP support only fell off in the last 3 weeks, first in Quebec than everywhere. And it was THAT which really started the Liberal surge in the polls, as the liberals were suddenly the only credible choice for an alternative government.

The conservatives not only set up a long enough campaign for all that to play out, they also gave Mulcair the shove down the hill. They were likely headed for a loss regardless (strategic voting in Ontario), but instead of having divided foes in an uneasy alliance, they let support coalesce behind one guy.
Tatts early in SH game: Hmm, so if I'm liberal I should have voted Nein to make sure I'm president? I'm not that selfish

Tatts later in SAME game: I'm going to be a corrupt official. I have turned from my liberal ways, and now will vote against the pesky liberals. Viva la Fascism.
When Venge's turn comes, he will get a yes from Mess, Dolmen, Nevyn and Venge but a no from the 3 fascists and me. **** with my Government, and i'll **** with yours
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#108 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 03:32 PM

With Quebec moving away from the NDP, I was hoping Jean-Francois Fortin's new party would grab at least one seat and become sort of the Elizabeth May of the east. If we do end up getting proportional representation, that would have given them some credibility for the first proportional election to keep on as a small party.

And Paul Dewar lost his seat in central Ottawa! That's a shame, as he would have been a good candidate to become the next NDP leader.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#109 User is offline   Gnaw 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 03:51 PM

How come all the countries with decent politics tend to be in high snow zones?
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#110 User is offline   LinearPhilosopher 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 04:01 PM

View PostGnaw, on 20 October 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

How come all the countries with decent politics tend to be in high snow zones?


don't get me started on how horrible harpers term has been.
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#111 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 05:30 PM

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 20 October 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

View PostGnaw, on 20 October 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

How come all the countries with decent politics tend to be in high snow zones?


don't get me started on how horrible harpers term has been.


The biggest thing about Harper that pissed me off...was that he HID from us. Unless he was doing something he HAD to do and show his face...he effing just hid away in his office and hoped we weren't all wondering what he was doing.

In juxtaposition to that, this was Trudeau this morning in Montreal. At a subway station thanking riders for voting. Ever his fathers son...when he talks about being for the people, he means it. He's willing to be seen, and interact. We've not had that type of interaction with the populous since Chretien.
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#112 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 07:15 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 20 October 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 20 October 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

View PostGnaw, on 20 October 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

How come all the countries with decent politics tend to be in high snow zones?


don't get me started on how horrible harpers term has been.


The biggest thing about Harper that pissed me off...was that he HID from us. Unless he was doing something he HAD to do and show his face...he effing just hid away in his office and hoped we weren't all wondering what he was doing.

In juxtaposition to that, this was Trudeau this morning in Montreal. At a subway station thanking riders for voting. Ever his fathers son...when he talks about being for the people, he means it. He's willing to be seen, and interact. We've not had that type of interaction with the populous since Chretien.


Wasn't Harper praised for being very media-friendly 15 years ago, back when he was the opposition? Being in for power seems to have changed him, hopefully it doesn't change Justin.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#113 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 07:23 PM

View PostD, on 20 October 2015 - 07:15 PM, said:

Wasn't Harper praised for being very media-friendly 15 years ago, back when he was the opposition? Being in for power seems to have changed him, hopefully it doesn't change Justin.


I only recall him being generously in any kind of regular spotlight at the VERY beginning. So yeah, I think you're right.
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#114 User is offline   LinearPhilosopher 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 07:27 PM

View PostD, on 20 October 2015 - 07:15 PM, said:

View PostQuickTidal, on 20 October 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 20 October 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

View PostGnaw, on 20 October 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

How come all the countries with decent politics tend to be in high snow zones?


don't get me started on how horrible harpers term has been.


The biggest thing about Harper that pissed me off...was that he HID from us. Unless he was doing something he HAD to do and show his face...he effing just hid away in his office and hoped we weren't all wondering what he was doing.

In juxtaposition to that, this was Trudeau this morning in Montreal. At a subway station thanking riders for voting. Ever his fathers son...when he talks about being for the people, he means it. He's willing to be seen, and interact. We've not had that type of interaction with the populous since Chretien.


Wasn't Harper praised for being very media-friendly 15 years ago, back when he was the opposition? Being in for power seems to have changed him, hopefully it doesn't change Justin.


i can't remeber that ever being said about him
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#115 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 08:24 PM

View PostD, on 20 October 2015 - 07:15 PM, said:

Wasn't Harper praised for being very media-friendly 15 years ago, back when he was the opposition? Being in for power seems to have changed him, hopefully it doesn't change Justin.


No.

Harper was originally more of a back room guy, not usually the guy in front of the cameras. And that made sense since he really does not have much charisma.

He already had his issues with the media (the same bias complaint the right trots out in the US). And then his early experiences were not good as he became leader.

He had some photo ops go awry because he is just kind of awkward. Even worse, the first times his newly united party had a shot at winning government they fell way off message and it killed them in the polls. A lot of east coast voters tended to view the more west coast reform party conservatives with some level of contempt and distrust. He was working to break through that, had his party up in the polls against Martin, and then the national media hit on a few quotes from former reform party backbenchers (relating to right wing social policies), and the Liberals successfully convinced everyone West of Manitoba that this reflect a secret right wing social agenda, and the conservatives lost (yes, other parties do campaign on fear).

So by the time they finally won a minority I think he had gotten to a paranoid level of wanting to micromanage the message. No stray MP talking about abortion or gay marriage. No loose quotes to be misinterpreted. And it sort of translated into office. There was an us vs them paranoia with the media where he felt any non scripted dialogue could get twisted or attacked, and his solution was simply to cut them off. It was a massive overreaction, but an effective one. Voters did not largely care about the details of him cutting off media, and by doing so his government stayed on message. The only voices questioning them were in question period, and those were partisan fights. Far less damning than bad press.

Trudeau is somewhat unlikely to go down the same road mainly because the liberals are the party of the centre. They really don't have the same fringe candidates to control, or any sort of paranoia about the media (except a few isolated people). But you may still see them maintain a few of the same policies if the press do not call them out on it. They want to seem far more open and available than the conservatives. But the scheduled announcements and centrally coordinated message are effective, so in some cases could be used.
Tatts early in SH game: Hmm, so if I'm liberal I should have voted Nein to make sure I'm president? I'm not that selfish

Tatts later in SAME game: I'm going to be a corrupt official. I have turned from my liberal ways, and now will vote against the pesky liberals. Viva la Fascism.
When Venge's turn comes, he will get a yes from Mess, Dolmen, Nevyn and Venge but a no from the 3 fascists and me. **** with my Government, and i'll **** with yours
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#116 User is offline   LinearPhilosopher 

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 09:49 PM

add to the fact all if not the majority of conservative voters feel or "think" the cbc is just a right winged institution
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#117 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 02:08 AM

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 20 October 2015 - 09:49 PM, said:

add to the fact all if not the majority of conservative voters feel or "think" the cbc is just a right winged institution


Say wut?
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#118 User is offline   Una 

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 07:23 AM

View PostQuickTidal, on 20 October 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

The biggest thing about Harper that pissed me off...was that he HID from us. Unless he was doing something he HAD to do and show his face...he effing just hid away in his office and hoped we weren't all wondering what he was doing.

In juxtaposition to that, this was Trudeau this morning in Montreal. At a subway station thanking riders for voting. Ever his fathers son...when he talks about being for the people, he means it. He's willing to be seen, and interact. We've not had that type of interaction with the populous since Chretien.


Damn! Now I want a Justin Trudeau selfie!

Did anyone else find it weird that Stephen Harper did not announce his stepping down as party leader in his concession speech, but then had his spokesman send a message to the press confirming that he would be stepping down right before he walked on to the stage so that it would be announced by someone else AFTER the speech? Is that normal? To me, it comes across as rather cowardly to not say it himself, but I don't do enough politics to know if that's a normal, accepted practice.

I was cautiously optimistic that we would finally get rid of Harper. I wasn't really sold on Trudeau at the start of the campaign. I've historically voted Liberal, probably because my own leanings are very centre of centre, which tends to make them a better fit than NDP or Conservative. I would have been slightly uncomfortable voting NDP, but I hated the Conservative government with such a passion, I would have been willing to give them a shot. Muzzling federal scientists, then cutting their funding and firing them when that didn't work. Messing with the CIHR. Slowing refugee entry to a trickle and then explicitly saying "only Christians allowed." WTF? Election fraud. Voter suppression. Cheap shots at religious and ethnic minorities. Hiding from reporters. Forbidding cabinet ministers from making statements about their own freaking portfolios. As a doctor, I swear if feels like we haven't had a Health Minister in forever. I know we had one. But neither Rona Ambrose or Leona Aglukkaq ever seemed to be allowed to say anything or make any decisions, so it's like they weren't even there. (There was this surreal incident at a major health conference where Aglukkaq showed up, then as reporters approached her, she basically bolted down a hallway and ran into an elevator with a deer in headlights look because she was terrified that if the reporters got to her, she would have to say something, and if she said anything, she'd be in trouble with the boss.) It's been CRAZY. As it was, the Liberal candidate in my riding is solid and I felt no problem voting for her. And as the campaign wore on, I got more comfortable with Trudeau, so it's nice that it ended up aligning that way and I didn't have to vote in a way that made me uncomfortable just to get rid of Harper. I do know that many people felt they had to vote strategically though.

The Liberal majority surprises me, but I'll take it. There's a big mess to clean up though, and I'm not sure they'll be able to do it. Although I don't agree with all of his positions, I like Justin Trudeau and I like his energy. So again, cautiously optimistic. I heard that excerpt on the radio this morning as I was driving to work, where he was saying, "Many of you have worried that Canada has lost its compassionate and constructive voice in the world over the past 10 years. Well, I have a simple message for you on behalf of 35 million Canadians. We're back." I'm a little embarrassed to admit it, but I got a little chill down my back and I couldn't help but do a little fist pump. We have our country back! How does he do that?!
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#119 User is offline   LinearPhilosopher 

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 11:12 AM

View PostAbyss, on 21 October 2015 - 02:08 AM, said:

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 20 October 2015 - 09:49 PM, said:

add to the fact all if not the majority of conservative voters feel or "think" the cbc is just a right winged institution


Say wut?


you don't have many conservative friends do you?
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#120 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 11:56 AM

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 21 October 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 21 October 2015 - 02:08 AM, said:

View PostLinearPhilosopher, on 20 October 2015 - 09:49 PM, said:

add to the fact all if not the majority of conservative voters feel or "think" the cbc is just a right winged institution


Say wut?


you don't have many conservative friends do you?


Seems like perhaps your particular Tory friends have their wings reversed.
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