Malazan Empire: The Dark Defiles - just finished it! - Malazan Empire

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The Dark Defiles - just finished it! No spoilers, then spoilers, oh, such f###ing spoilers...

#21 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:45 PM

View Postacesn8s, on 23 April 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 06 April 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

And if you mean the other epilogue, Dakovath saved the wanderer prince who would grow up to be Ringil's lover, and gave him the power he would teach Ringil about, that would allow Ringil to save the world.
It's unclear whether Dakovath went back in time to do this, or did it then not quite knowing what would happen.


I just finished the book. Excellent read.

I took it as Dakovath imparted Gil's essence/soul/whatever into Hjal. Gil's Grey places lover is actually himself in a different life. Dakovath wanted to save Gil, but he had to be asked the right question.


I see why you took it that way, but I don't think that's what Morgan intended by the scene, rather it was that Hjel became a Mage because of Dakovash saving him, and by extension Hjel teaching Ringil was a result.
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#22 User is offline   acesn8s 

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 12:20 PM

View PostAbyss, on 24 April 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

View Postacesn8s, on 23 April 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 06 April 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

And if you mean the other epilogue, Dakovath saved the wanderer prince who would grow up to be Ringil's lover, and gave him the power he would teach Ringil about, that would allow Ringil to save the world.
It's unclear whether Dakovath went back in time to do this, or did it then not quite knowing what would happen.


I just finished the book. Excellent read.

I took it as Dakovath imparted Gil's essence/soul/whatever into Hjal. Gil's Grey places lover is actually himself in a different life. Dakovath wanted to save Gil, but he had to be asked the right question.


I see why you took it that way, but I don't think that's what Morgan intended by the scene, rather it was that Hjel became a Mage because of Dakovash saving him, and by extension Hjel teaching Ringil was a result.


That could work as well. I like that idea because Hjal teaching Gil allows Gil to help Archeth.
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Posted 27 May 2015 - 06:19 AM

It took me five spilled ice cream months to track down a hardcover edition with the dragon on the cover.

I finished it just now. What a brilliantly written series. The only rough stretch is indeed where Ringil considers the cabal. Everything else is twisty and turny and imbued with grief, refusal to give up and a lust for freedom that is in the best of Morgan's writings.

No wonder Erikson's blurb is on the back cover of this. It fits in well with the Malazan series. The looping back of so many plot threads show us that nothing is truly throwaway, while also sticking to the theme of a broken world that cannot help but enter into recursion.

Brilliant, brilliant series and well worth the five months to find the right cover art.
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Posted 15 June 2015 - 06:07 PM

Oh and...

Spoiler

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 05:01 AM

View Postamphibian, on 15 June 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

Oh and...

Spoiler



Great theory!
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#26 User is offline   paradanmellow 

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 01:57 PM

View PostFiddler, on 26 December 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

I read this series and the whole 'Takeshi Kovacs and company as gods of the little people' aspect was just a literary punt. Morgan had the opportunity to create a new thing, a new world with enough of an initial fan base to get it going and instead he falls back on Takeshi Kovacs and co. The first Kovacs book was a masterpiece, the second was meh, the third was a goddamn trainwreck with more plot holes than the second and third matrix movies combined. Anyways, I didn't like this series due to it's reliance on props, such as kovacs, and Ringils' being gay, and Archeth being a lesbian. From chapter one he's throwing Ringil's sexuality out there, hell it's your introduction to the character in the first book! No character development, no plot, just how this character is gay and having sex with stable boys and trading on his war veteran status... Sorry but it isn't the stuff of epics but just an epic amount of stuff, to me.

There have been other characters in fantasy literature that were gay, but being gay was part of their character, not the gimmick that props up the plot premise. Does Richard K. Morgan know how to write? Certainly, he's making a living doing it, but then again so is Lauren K. Hamilton and a ton of other people whose body of work I regard as garbage.

This is just my opinion, so feel free to ignore it.

Edit- Oh yeah Ringil is named after a sword from LOTR, which I found to be yet another egregious error on RKM's part. I wouldn't be surprised if the names of the other characters were stolen from other books as well.


As everyone said already the series was amazing! Even now, if I have just as much as a glance at the text, I will not be able to stop reading! It's got a very nice flow, artistically ripe and all that, plus the dark humor, tone and action we've enjoyed in Altered Carbon.
However, you make really good points as to its faults (and the Kovacs series too!). And because I love the fantasy version, I will not refrain from destroying it criticizing it as well. I'm with you in the bitter aftertaste boat and will add my 2 cents in the balance. Yet I will not second the virulence of your attacks because stealing names from Tolkein is just fine, it's like using biblical references, and complaining about it sounds too emotionally wounded imo. Let's try a milder variant:
Why oh why did Morgan have to tie it to the Kovacs series?? Damn it, man, whose great idea was that? What's the f**king gain? This really burst my bubble! Thanks to this unnecessary bind, the books' universe loses credibility. And that can only be prevented by either unreading Kovacs or knowing nothing about the scifi side of it in the first place. What a bummer! I only hope this isn't a trend, to cross-reference your standalone work until hardcore fans actively seek the clues to it. :D As for the sexual part, there are some exquisitely graphic scenes there. Sweet mother of toilet seat, yes!! I hate the purity of other fantasy works, as if they're meant to be read by children... But - but - indeed, if Ringil is gay that's not the first thing we should know about him. To me he sounds like a teenager who's really upset people don't hug and noogie him on the street while saying: it' alright! It's perfectly natural! Enjoy! Then again, he might have a very good excuse to be so defensive/counterphobic about it. The society he lives in sees fit to torture children who happen to be discovering the freedom of love. I mean, burn that place to the ground, Gil! :) I don't agree his introduction into the book was bad though, it was in fact excellent. He's Angeleyes after all, owner of a huge sword of complicated name and unworldly material, charming both men and ladies and (bonus) good for the inn's business. A mascot! An icon of badassery, both pretty and outrageous. People will never tire of worshiping such archetypal characters. And sleeping with different stable boys each night only adds to it. :D
And one last thing: maybe there's a bit too much cussing going on, gives me the impression that the 3 main heroes are essentially nihilists in the bad sense, not good for my mojo. Dakovash by comparison is one carefree butterfly, going around, smirking at what the world has augmented to and his ridiculous role in running it. (wait, what? does this justify linking to the sci fi series? oh, nooooo!)
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