[Abyss]

I just finished Richard Morgan's THE DARK DEFILES, book three in his Land Fit For a Heroes series.I'll run some spoiler less commentary first, then I'm going full spoilers for all. Morgan books after the break.
I liked this books SO much. How much? I've posted else thread that the first thing I love to do after I finish a good fantasy/sf book is go back and read the best parts...With this book that amounted to almost a full reread.
If you've read THE STEEL REMAINS and THE COLD COMMANDS and enjoyed them, this book is going to be pure candy for you.Ringil, Archeth and Egar are all here, all in fine fine form, and all get crowning moments of pure fantasy lit awesome.
And not just a big finish either...Dark has, easily, the most action scenes in the series, each one distinct, vibrant and damn fun to read. The is also a real sense of peril... Characters, main and supporting, are not safe in this book.
But not just action... The world building keeps going... A lot of what we thought we learned from prior books gets turned sideways, a lot of the things we've wanted to see, we do. The character arcs are interesting, mostly logical, and make for a solid story all around.
If you haven't read the first two books but were a fan of the Kovacs books, you now have a solid trilo worth your time and money.
Picking up wheRe Gil and co left off in Cold with the search for the Illwrack Changeling, the expedition heads south to League lands. Things go seriously wrong fairly quickly, then they get worse.
And that's about all I can say without spoiling anything. It's a great book, worth your eye time and dollars.

[Abyss]

And now...
SPOILERS

SPOILERS
SPOILERS FOR ALL

YES ALL MORGAN BOOKS

YES EVEN THE KOVACS BOOKS

SPOILERS SPOILERS FUCKING GOATSUCKING
KRAKEN BALLS SIZED SPOILERS

Still with me?Sitting comfortably? Then we'll begin...

...but where do I even begin...?

Ringil's story wasn't surprising, rather it was epic. Massive fucking epic. He goes to war to get his friends back, gets a serious magic upgrade, kicks the Dwenda all,over the place, kills the Illwrack Changeling twice, makes a friend out of his nemesis.... With the sole exception of an overlong segment where he contemplates a conspiracy, Gils segments were pretty much riveting. His drive to save his friends, then to just kick the Dwendas collective ass, was just fun to read, in a bloody messy way. I don't even accept his death... Gil was too badass to die... He was just going to need some extra time to kill a few thousand Dwenda with his sword, then bust out of the Grey Spaces.


Egar... Interesting storyline for Eg... No power-up, his upgrade was leadership... Despite beating An ally not a coma early on, he Trake's leadership of the misc group post shipwreck and keeps most of them alive most of the way, even when things truly go to lizardshit. And then, his big finish... I suppose Eg, of anyone, was doomed to a glorious death. But oh, it was glorious. Dragon bane indeed. Everything about that sequence, from his beng the first to realize what was coming, to leading the fight, to ultimately killing the dragon so much, was just exactly how the character had to go out.

Archeth surprised me this book. I won't say she became a convincing leader... I don't think that she was supposed to. Bt she did become an utter blade throwing badass who earned the respect of the men stuck with her as leader, and while I've always enjoyed how. Morgan writes Archeth's fight scenes, he hit a whole other level here. Those blades...
Her storyline also gave us the most insight into the Kiriath, the Helmsmen and the new element, the WarHelms, all fascinating and nicely building on the history of the world to date.


We got lizard folk. Peons and warrior caste and a fucking dragon, finally!

We also got a solid supporting cast. To a certain extent the assortment of Imperial Eternals were the Redshirts of this book, but Morgan gave them distinct bits and made their deaths matter to the protagonists and by extension the reader at least a little. Hjel was interesting, more so after the epilogue... Soul mates indeed. The Helmsmen plotting was a nice touch, them doing more for the Kiriath legacy than Arceth herself.

Nice touch, revealing the Dwenda were a human offshoot. We had guessed that, but the way Gil rubbed their faces in it was lovely.

The Dark Court were in fine form... I need a Kovacs reread to figure out if I can recognize more of them.

The Ravensfriend... Oh, that was just a lovely moment at the end with Gil. Fist pump worthy holyshitdidijustreadthat level.

So call me a satisfied reader, and Morgan remains firmly on my preorder/read immediately list.

[Obdigore]

The Dark Court is clearly the group that Kovacs is with at the end of the third book. I want to call them the Blue Beetle, but that is Dresden's car. I identified 2 others of them while reading, I believe.

Watch him do a follow up where Ringil is part of the 'pantheon' in 1000 years. That would be awesome.

I love how open ended he left it re: Archeth and if she is going to be empress or not.

[Chance]

Obdigore, on 22 October 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

The Dark Court is clearly the group that Kovacs is with at the end of the third book. I want to call them the Blue Beetle, but that is Dresden's car. I identified 2 others of them while reading, I believe.

Watch him do a follow up where Ringil is part of the 'pantheon' in 1000 years. That would be awesome.

I love how open ended he left it re: Archeth and if she is going to be empress or not.

Vidaura and Quellcrist are pretty obvious but are there any other identifiable ?

Archeth will at least kill that damn emperor. After that pretty open

It would be damn great if his next project had some form of connection. Is there any info about what he is doing next? A glorious idea would be one where we got to know others of the dark court before they where such (if they ain't people we know).

This post has been edited by Chance: 22 October 2014 - 06:24 PM

[Abyss]

Chance, on 22 October 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Obdigore, on 22 October 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

The Dark Court is clearly the group that Kovacs is with at the end of the third book. ... I identified 2 others of them while reading, I believe.

Watch him do a follow up where Ringil is part of the 'pantheon' in 1000 years. That would be awesome.

I love how open ended he left it re: Archeth and if she is going to be empress or not.

Vidaura and Quellcrist are pretty obvious but are there any other identifiable ?

Archeth will at least kill that damn emperor. After that pretty open

It would be damn great if his next project had some form of connection. Is there any info about what he is doing next? A glorious idea would be one where we got to know others of the dark court before they where such (if they ain't people we know).

I also imagine Kovacs' group at the end of FURIES becoming the Dark Court, but aside from Dakovach and Kelgrist, we have little to work with. Given some of the variations in ther Kovacs series, it's even possible for some of the Court to be same person.

Archeth and Jhiral... wow... that epilogue... after all the epic-level fantasy throwdowns in this book, it was pretty amazing how an asshole monarch abusing a slave-girl can carry so much weight. Credit again to Morgan, because while this is Jhiral and Ishgrim's more or less only scene in the book, Archeth has spent so much time thinking about them that the impact is wild. It throws open the possibility of everything Archeth denied, Gil said would never happen, and the Helmsmen are actively aiming for.


There's a story to be told about the time between Kovacs and Ringil, that's for certain. Between the Book-keepers, the Moon becoming the Band, the Dwenda empire, the Kiriath arrival and the Lizard Folk war he's got a metric tonne of interesting ground to cover.

That said, if Pat's comments elsethread re sales are accurate, i suspect we're likely to get something more in the nature of more Kovacs than more Ringil & co.

[Pig Iron]

The very last scene was ambiguous - Dakovac had a strong feeling of Ringil there (or had he just taken Ringil's sword?). Who's to say they are not one and the same? Strange things happen in the Gray Places, and what did Chtu ... mean Book Keeper do to Ringil on the altar?

Hope next books are Kovacs et al vs whatever aliens made the merry band break reality and sail like thoughts across deep space. Bet we will know the original members of the Dark Court pretty well after those.

[Andorion]

Just finished Dark Defiles. Awesome book.

Morgan finally lets us see the lizardfolk in action, and theres a Dragon! Egar's death was sad, but in th ened he lived up to his name. It was the kind of death he would have been proud of.

Ringil is still so very much Ringil....he improves greatly in this book. His last scene with the Dark Court was awesome. His last charge against the Dwenda...epic.

Archeth improves so much. From being constantly brooding and depressed, she comes into her own as a warrior.

The book itself is a big improvement over the other two. The action scenes are awesome, and Morgan fleshes out the world very nicely.

The ending, being so open.....I can see Archeth just striding into the palace and filling the Emperor full of knives.

Really enjoyed this series. Will have to read the Kovacs books now

[Abyss]

Got to love how the Emperor did the one single thing that will make Archeth forget her loyalties.
...and consequently, have to wonder whether the WarHelms knew that.

[Andorion]

Abyss, on 01 December 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Got to love how the Emperor did the one single thing that will make Archeth forget her loyalties.
...and consequently, have to wonder whether the WarHelms knew that.

The Emperor..... is an idiot

[Cedz]

Andorion, on 07 November 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

Really enjoyed this series. Will have to read the Kovacs books now

Andorion you should definitely check out the Kovacs trilogy as it is just full of awesome.

[Werthead]

Quote

It would be damn great if his next project had some form of connection. Is there any info about what he is doing next? A glorious idea would be one where we got to know others of the dark court before they where such (if they ain't people we know).

I believe next up is at least one and possibly two novels set in the same world as Black Man (aka Thirteen). Definitely a return to SF.

[Abyss]

Werthead, on 24 December 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

Quote

It would be damn great if his next project had some form of connection. Is there any info about what he is doing next? A glorious idea would be one where we got to know others of the dark court before they where such (if they ain't people we know).

I believe next up is at least one and possibly two novels set in the same world as Black Man (aka Thirteen). Definitely a return to SF.

Wow... Really?
Because I loved BLACK MAN but it seemed like the book took all kinds of flack for not being more Kovacs. Regardless, fantasy, SF, whatever, I'm in. Morgan hasn't disappointed me yet.

[Fiddler]

I read this series and the whole 'Takeshi Kovacs and company as gods of the little people' aspect was just a literary punt. Morgan had the opportunity to create a new thing, a new world with enough of an initial fan base to get it going and instead he falls back on Takeshi Kovacs and co. The first Kovacs book was a masterpiece, the second was meh, the third was a goddamn trainwreck with more plot holes than the second and third matrix movies combined. Anyways, I didn't like this series due to it's reliance on props, such as kovacs, and Ringils' being gay, and Archeth being a lesbian. From chapter one he's throwing Ringil's sexuality out there, hell it's your introduction to the character in the first book! No character development, no plot, just how this character is gay and having sex with stable boys and trading on his war veteran status... Sorry but it isn't the stuff of epics but just an epic amount of stuff, to me.

There have been other characters in fantasy literature that were gay, but being gay was part of their character, not the gimmick that props up the plot premise. Does Richard K. Morgan know how to write? Certainly, he's making a living doing it, but then again so is Lauren K. Hamilton and a ton of other people whose body of work I regard as garbage.

This is just my opinion, so feel free to ignore it.

Edit- Oh yeah Ringil is named after a sword from LOTR, which I found to be yet another egregious error on RKM's part. I wouldn't be surprised if the names of the other characters were stolen from other books as well.

This post has been edited by Fiddler: 29 December 2014 - 03:19 AM

[champ]

I thought this was a great end to the series though not sure if I enjoyed the open ended ending!

Took me a while to get around to reading this as I reread the first two books before attempting this, glad I did...

There is a scene in the second book with Ringil talking to the Egar and Ringil states that it would take a dragon to kill Egar... bit of foreshadowing there, gutted when he finally bought it but it was a worthy end!

Hoping we see Ringil in any future book like how we saw Kovacs in these!

[Melnibonean Wanderer]

Can someone explain the epilogue?




Loved Ringil coming home...it reminded me of an expanded take on Moorcock's "The Dreaming City."

This post has been edited by Melnibonean Wanderer: 04 April 2015 - 06:15 PM

[champ]

Melnibonean Wanderer, on 04 April 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

Can someone explain the epilogue?

If that is the scene with the emperor and the slave girl, I am guessing it is there to make you think and wonder... what will Archeth do when she get's home and finds the slave girl taken, afterall it is the thought of being reunited with her that kept her going, will it break her relationship with the Emperor and will it lead to her claiming the throne...

[Andorion]

Melnibonean Wanderer, on 04 April 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

Can someone explain the epilogue?




Loved Ringil coming home...it reminded me of an expanded take on Moorcock's "The Dreaming City."

You see, Archeth had always served the Emperor loyally in memory of her familys service to the Imperial line, even though she thought the Emperor was an idiot. Now at the end of all her adventures, she is in a bit of a wild mood to put it mildly, and the thoughts of the slave girl were the main reason she made it through. So the implication is that when she gets back, with whispers of insurrection already in her ear, and finds Jhiral has taken the girl, its all going to boil over, she is going to kill Jhiral and take the throne

[Abyss]

And if you mean the other epilogue, Dakovath saved the wanderer prince who would grow up to be Ringil's lover, and gave him the power he would teach Ringil about, that would allow Ringil to save the world.
It's unclear whether Dakovath went back in time to do this, or did it then not quite knowing what would happen.

[acesn8s]

Abyss, on 06 April 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

And if you mean the other epilogue, Dakovath saved the wanderer prince who would grow up to be Ringil's lover, and gave him the power he would teach Ringil about, that would allow Ringil to save the world.
It's unclear whether Dakovath went back in time to do this, or did it then not quite knowing what would happen.

I just finished the book. Excellent read.

I took it as Dakovath imparted Gil's essence/soul/whatever into Hjal. Gil's Grey places lover is actually himself in a different life. Dakovath wanted to save Gil, but he had to be asked the right question.

[Andorion]

acesn8s, on 23 April 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

Abyss, on 06 April 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

And if you mean the other epilogue, Dakovath saved the wanderer prince who would grow up to be Ringil's lover, and gave him the power he would teach Ringil about, that would allow Ringil to save the world.
It's unclear whether Dakovath went back in time to do this, or did it then not quite knowing what would happen.

I just finished the book. Excellent read.

I took it as Dakovath imparted Gil's essence/soul/whatever into Hjal. Gil's Grey places lover is actually himself in a different life. Dakovath wanted to save Gil, but he had to be asked the right question.

Wouldn't that make Ringil the biggest Narcissist in history?