[karsa orlong rulez]

Did anyone else feel that Apsalar was a touch too over-powered? I mean, come on 300+ claw assassins and they didnt even have even have time to react. Not to mention she tosses around Pearl (who I am guessing is a lot bigger than her) like a toy.

I mean, even Karsa Orlong would have had trouble with that.

[Andorion]

karsa orlong rulez, on 13 October 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

Did anyone else feel that Apsalar was a touch too over-powered? I mean, come on 300+ claw assassins and they didnt even have even have time to react. Not to mention she tosses around Pearl (who I am guessing is a lot bigger than her) like a toy.

I mean, even Karsa Orlong would have had trouble with that.

What Apsalar did was a Shadowdance. That is really destructive and done properly can scatter armies.

[Grief]

How powerful characters seem often verges on inconsistent. It could be down to the reader simply not having seen the full power of a character before, to them having grown in strength since we last saw them, or to "power" not really being a linear measurement but rather something variable that characters can tap into at some times more effectively than others. When it's done well, it seems like character growth; at other times it seems like the author sacrificing some measure of consistency with the past for the sake of a powerful (or, less kindly, "epic") scene or moment.

Though given Apsalars history, she's not really the most glaring example of this. Karsa and Quick Ben are probably the most common complaints in that department. Not to mention a ton of people in GotM.

[Andorion]

Grief, on 13 October 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

How powerful characters seem often verges on inconsistent. It could be down to the reader simply not having seen the full power of a character before, to them having grown in strength since we last saw them, or to "power" not really being a linear measurement but rather something variable that characters can tap into at some times more effectively than others. When it's done well, it seems like character growth; at other times it seems like the author sacrificing some measure of consistency with the past for the sake of a powerful (or, less kindly, "epic") scene or moment.

Though given Apsalars history, she's not really the most glaring example of this. Karsa and Quick Ben are probably the most common complaints in that department. Not to mention a ton of people in GotM.

But regarding Apsalar its the Shadowdance which let her kill so many, right? I mean we know that a Shadowdance can be even more deadly, but I couldn't give the details of that here in tBH forum.

[worry]

Absolutely. Even without the dance she is superior to every other assassin in the world by virtue of Cotillion's imprint. With the dance, she's virtually perfect.

[Tru]

Quote

Did anyone else feel that Apsalar was a touch too over-powered?

I sort of agree with this. I was under the assumption that while she was being used/possessed by Cotillion, she was virtually unstoppable by any mere mortal, however, there is an implication that once he has released her, then her skills are backed way off and merely natural. I think it can be assumed that she would be formidable, but this shadow dance seems like a very convenient way for her to remain uber powerful despite her being a mere mortal again. In other places in this novel, even Apsalar herself questions whether or not she could take Kalam without the use of stealth and surprise. I have no idea why she would even wonder such a thing if she can challenge hounds of shadow and take out hundreds of claws, and apparently, according to Shadowthrone, has even surpassed Cotillion's abilities now..at what age? and how many battles has she had to perfect these abilities? People complain that Kalam is too deadly, and yet even when Kalam was fighting through hand after hand, he was being injured, and was admiring the prowess of T'amber. So in one case the author wants us to wonder at who would win a head to head fight with Kalam, and then in another case he shows the very clear destructive power of Apsalar, which is far and away more than what Kalam could muster. It appears that Apsalar sees Kalam as more or less her equal, and yet Erickson sorta kills this notion with the shadow dance. Maybe I'm also not fully grasping something here? I do love Apsalar as a character however, I just wish that her skills would be...more subtle? Just like her personality.

This post has been edited by Tru: 15 November 2014 - 07:55 PM

[Andorion]

Tru, on 15 November 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

Quote

Did anyone else feel that Apsalar was a touch too over-powered?

I sort of agree with this. I was under the assumption that while she was being used/possessed by Cotillion, she was virtually unstoppable by any mere mortal, however, there is an implication that once he has released her, then her skills are backed way off and merely natural. I think it can be assumed that she would be formidable, but this shadow dance seems like a very convenient way for her to remain uber powerful despite her being a mere mortal again. In other places in this novel, even Apsalar herself questions whether or not she could take Kalam without the use of stealth and surprise. I have no idea why she would even wonder such a thing if she can challenge hounds of shadow and take out hundreds of claws, and apparently, according to Shadowthrone, has even surpassed Cotillion's abilities now..at what age? and how many battles has she had to perfect these abilities? People complain that Kalam is too deadly, and yet even when Kalam was fighting through hand after hand, he was being injured, and was admiring the prowess of T'amber. So in one case the author wants us to wonder at who would win a head to head fight with Kalam, and then in another case he shows the very clear destructive power of Apsalar, which is far and away more than what Kalam could muster. It appears that Apsalar sees Kalam as more or less her equal, and yet Erickson sorta kills this notion with the shadow dance. Maybe I'm also not fully grasping something here? I do love Apsalar as a character however, I just wish that her skills would be...more subtle? Just like her personality.

But shadowdance is not part of her natural assasin abilities. Its a ritual that invokes the God of Assasins. When Apsalar Shadowdanced, it was not Apsalar but Cotillion the Rope who killed through her. She knows the Shadowdance as a relic of Cotillions possesion, and once sh einvokes him, well, then its a God and all bets are off. It is not a unique Apsalar ability either as you shall see.(RAFO)

[Tru]

Andorion, on 16 November 2014 - 01:27 AM, said:

Tru, on 15 November 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

Quote

Did anyone else feel that Apsalar was a touch too over-powered?

I sort of agree with this. I was under the assumption that while she was being used/possessed by Cotillion, she was virtually unstoppable by any mere mortal, however, there is an implication that once he has released her, then her skills are backed way off and merely natural. I think it can be assumed that she would be formidable, but this shadow dance seems like a very convenient way for her to remain uber powerful despite her being a mere mortal again. In other places in this novel, even Apsalar herself questions whether or not she could take Kalam without the use of stealth and surprise. I have no idea why she would even wonder such a thing if she can challenge hounds of shadow and take out hundreds of claws, and apparently, according to Shadowthrone, has even surpassed Cotillion's abilities now..at what age? and how many battles has she had to perfect these abilities? People complain that Kalam is too deadly, and yet even when Kalam was fighting through hand after hand, he was being injured, and was admiring the prowess of T'amber. So in one case the author wants us to wonder at who would win a head to head fight with Kalam, and then in another case he shows the very clear destructive power of Apsalar, which is far and away more than what Kalam could muster. It appears that Apsalar sees Kalam as more or less her equal, and yet Erickson sorta kills this notion with the shadow dance. Maybe I'm also not fully grasping something here? I do love Apsalar as a character however, I just wish that her skills would be...more subtle? Just like her personality.

But shadowdance is not part of her natural assasin abilities. Its a ritual that invokes the God of Assasins. When Apsalar Shadowdanced, it was not Apsalar but Cotillion the Rope who killed through her. She knows the Shadowdance as a relic of Cotillions possesion, and once sh einvokes him, well, then its a God and all bets are off. It is not a unique Apsalar ability either as you shall see.(RAFO)

This explains how she managed to travel, I assumed through warren, a vast distance to defend Quick Ben. Which raises a ton more questions regarding the motives of Cotillion vs. Shadowthrone, obviously the latter wants QB dead, and I suspect Apsalar acted of her own accord when saving him. and thanks again for a clarification there. I can't wait to finish this series but I want to relish it, so I'm taking my time, reading other books in between, etc.

[worry]

There are other books?

[Tru]

worry, on 16 November 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

There are other books?

haha, I know, right? Yeah I'm currently mixed up in about 3 other book series. It does make it harder to remember things because of the time delay between novels.

[Twisty]

Andorion, on 16 November 2014 - 01:27 AM, said:

Tru, on 15 November 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

Quote

Did anyone else feel that Apsalar was a touch too over-powered?

I sort of agree with this. I was under the assumption that while she was being used/possessed by Cotillion, she was virtually unstoppable by any mere mortal, however, there is an implication that once he has released her, then her skills are backed way off and merely natural. I think it can be assumed that she would be formidable, but this shadow dance seems like a very convenient way for her to remain uber powerful despite her being a mere mortal again. In other places in this novel, even Apsalar herself questions whether or not she could take Kalam without the use of stealth and surprise. I have no idea why she would even wonder such a thing if she can challenge hounds of shadow and take out hundreds of claws, and apparently, according to Shadowthrone, has even surpassed Cotillion's abilities now..at what age? and how many battles has she had to perfect these abilities? People complain that Kalam is too deadly, and yet even when Kalam was fighting through hand after hand, he was being injured, and was admiring the prowess of T'amber. So in one case the author wants us to wonder at who would win a head to head fight with Kalam, and then in another case he shows the very clear destructive power of Apsalar, which is far and away more than what Kalam could muster. It appears that Apsalar sees Kalam as more or less her equal, and yet Erickson sorta kills this notion with the shadow dance. Maybe I'm also not fully grasping something here? I do love Apsalar as a character however, I just wish that her skills would be...more subtle? Just like her personality.

But shadowdance is not part of her natural assasin abilities. Its a ritual that invokes the God of Assasins. When Apsalar Shadowdanced, it was not Apsalar but Cotillion the Rope who killed through her. She knows the Shadowdance as a relic of Cotillions possesion, and once sh einvokes him, well, then its a God and all bets are off. It is not a unique Apsalar ability either as you shall see.(RAFO)

I'm pretty sure she didn't invoke the Rope, as Shadowthrone comments somewhere that even Cotillion would be hard pressed to do what Apsalar had done. So it wasn't Cotillion killing through Apsalar; maybe we should look at it as Shadow (the warren itself) acting through a mortal, or something like that.

[Andorion]

Twisty, on 17 November 2014 - 04:29 AM, said:

Andorion, on 16 November 2014 - 01:27 AM, said:

Tru, on 15 November 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

Quote

Did anyone else feel that Apsalar was a touch too over-powered?

I sort of agree with this. I was under the assumption that while she was being used/possessed by Cotillion, she was virtually unstoppable by any mere mortal, however, there is an implication that once he has released her, then her skills are backed way off and merely natural. I think it can be assumed that she would be formidable, but this shadow dance seems like a very convenient way for her to remain uber powerful despite her being a mere mortal again. In other places in this novel, even Apsalar herself questions whether or not she could take Kalam without the use of stealth and surprise. I have no idea why she would even wonder such a thing if she can challenge hounds of shadow and take out hundreds of claws, and apparently, according to Shadowthrone, has even surpassed Cotillion's abilities now..at what age? and how many battles has she had to perfect these abilities? People complain that Kalam is too deadly, and yet even when Kalam was fighting through hand after hand, he was being injured, and was admiring the prowess of T'amber. So in one case the author wants us to wonder at who would win a head to head fight with Kalam, and then in another case he shows the very clear destructive power of Apsalar, which is far and away more than what Kalam could muster. It appears that Apsalar sees Kalam as more or less her equal, and yet Erickson sorta kills this notion with the shadow dance. Maybe I'm also not fully grasping something here? I do love Apsalar as a character however, I just wish that her skills would be...more subtle? Just like her personality.

But shadowdance is not part of her natural assasin abilities. Its a ritual that invokes the God of Assasins. When Apsalar Shadowdanced, it was not Apsalar but Cotillion the Rope who killed through her. She knows the Shadowdance as a relic of Cotillions possesion, and once sh einvokes him, well, then its a God and all bets are off. It is not a unique Apsalar ability either as you shall see.(RAFO)

I'm pretty sure she didn't invoke the Rope, as Shadowthrone comments somewhere that even Cotillion would be hard pressed to do what Apsalar had done. So it wasn't Cotillion killing through Apsalar; maybe we should look at it as Shadow (the warren itself) acting through a mortal, or something like that.

Shadowthrone, as per his usual habit, was probably lying or he meant that Cotillion as Dancer could not have done as she did. Cotillion is no slouch in a fight:

Quote

The courtyard was suddenly filled with shadows, a strange crackling sound ripping through the air—
And a fifth figure was among the four Edur sorcerers now, grey-clad, gloved, face hidden in a rough hood. In its hands, a rope, that seemed to writhe with a life of its own. Cutter saw it snap out to strike a sorcerer in one eye, and when the rope whipped back out, a stream of blood and minced brains followed. The sorcerer’s magic winked out and the Edur toppled.
The rope was too fast to follow, as its wielder moved among the three remaining mages, but in its twisting wake a head tumbled from shoulders, intestines spilled out from a gaping rip, and whatever felled the last sorcerer happened in a blur that left no obvious result, except that the Edur was dead before he hit the ground.
There were shouts from the Edur warriors, and they converged from both sides.
It was then that the screams began. The rope lashed out from Cotillion’s right hand; a long-knife was in his left, seeming to do little but lick and touch everyone it came close to – but the result was devastating. The air was a mist of suspended blood around the patron god of assassins, and before Cutter drew his fourth breath since the battle began, it was over, and around Cotillion there was naught but corpses.
A final snap of the rope whipped blood across a wall, then the god threw back his hood and wheeled to face Blind. He opened his mouth to say something, then shut it once more. An angry gesture, and shadows swept out to engulf the trembling Hound. When they dissipated a moment later Blind was gone.

As for invoking Cotillion, I could tell you more about that, but it would involve huge spoilers form later in the series.