[Messiah X]

I just finished BAB, which I read immediately after finishing TCG, and it made me wonder: would the actions of the Thaumaturgs have totally cancelled out Tavore's plan if Saeng didn't stop them?

The Jade Giants were already falling, and would have crashed into the world whether the Thaumaturgs called them down or not, as they were already being called down by Kaminsod. This was of course stopped by Tavore and company, but right around the same time, the Thaumaturg Circle of Nine was performing their ritual. Had they succeeded, would this have called the Crippled God right back down for another fall (I realize they were attempting to bring down the Jade Giants, but I'm assuming Kaminsod was, in whatever shape or form, being taken home by the Jade Giants). To me this really makes me think that a bit of bad luck (things not coming together properly, Saeng not stopping the ritual) could have made all of Tavore's quest end in vain, all based on the actions of some (nowadays) minor kingdom of insane xenophobes.

This leads me to a few other what-ifs concerning events that occurred around the same time, and cross over between SE and ICE books. Would the Crippled God's departure have put an end to "The Lady," rendering the events of Stonewielder a huge waste of manpower? Or would the Lady have persisted as its own entity born from a shard of the Crippled God? This is particularly confusing because the Lady's shard (the one Spite ran off with) disintegrated at the end, but Celeste bonded with Himatan and persists as an entity within Himatan.

What would have happened to Yathvenar if Kiska and Leoman didn't finish him off? Would he have had any connection to the Jade Giants and Korabas or the Crippled God in a way similar to Heboric, since he was in contact with both a Jade Giant and otataral?

Am I thinking too hard about SE's details while reading ICE and try to separate them?

[worry]

You're not thinking too hard, just don't be disappointed when some "what if's" remain unanswerable.

At least for your very first question, I think the events in TCG would have been essentially world-ending (or life-ending, at least) while those in B+B would have been "merely" continent-devastating. But I don't quite remember how the stakes were laid out so don't hold me to that.

[Messiah X]

I don't believe the impact of the Jade Giants fall would have logically been any different no matter where/how they fell. Of course, the results would be devastating and quite probably near-apocalyptic at least for civilization. I don't think either case would necessarily have been world ending, but would have been similar to the original fall of the Crippled God. Keep in mind, the folks in Lether/Kolanse also had the threat of Akhrast Korvalain wiping out humanity to deal with, which was an equally serious reason to get rid of the Crippled God. Here's how I would break it down:

1. The Visitor/Banner/Scimitar/Jade Giants are travelling to Malazan world to find Kaminsod.

2. The Thaumaturgs want to bring the same Jade Giants down to kill Kallor.

3. Wherever the Jade Giants fall, the impact will be devastating.

4. Tavore and co free the Crippled God who leaves Malazan world via the Jade Giants. This prevents the giants from falling.

5. Saeng, Hamu, and Pon-Lor prevent the Thaumaturgs from completing their ritual. This also prevents the giants from falling.

From these, I came to two logical deductions if #5 didn't happen:

1. The Jade Giants would have caused another fall, implications unknown but surely devastating.

2. The Crippled God who is being transported back to his own world with the Jade Giants would end up right back where he started (assuming TCG ending occurs before Thaumaturg ritual).

Either way, it seems like both events needed to take place to "save the world." From a narrative perspective, I like that this wraps up the original fall of CG and Kallor with the current CG situation and the remnant rogue splinter of Kallor's empire whose ancestors are, in a big way, responsible for the whole CG debacle in the first place. At the same time, I think this diminishes the efforts and sacrifice of the Bonehunters and their allies, by saying even if they succeeded it was up to a lone village priestess and her two unlilely allies to ensure their efforts weren't in vain

[worry]

To clarify I'm not differentiating their impact geographically, I'm saying the B+B jade chunk was one smaller (but sizable) offshoot of the main body of chunks that TCG deals with, possibly drawn further than the rest specifically due to the mages' ambitions against Kallor. I don't personally believe those mages were responsible for calling these jade giants, since apparently they've been falling occasionally over the millennia already in much smaller waves (the one on Otataral Island springs to mind).