[simz1987]

I've just finished reading ICE's OST bookand have yet to read the Dust of Dreams and the subsequent books so if any ofmy points are addressed in later books then please just say so as to avoidspoilers.

Further reading (I previously missed) inthis forum addresses some of the following points but I haven't removed them asthey link with other points.



Segulah

1) I forget the exact quote from MoI butthe first was referred to as if he was an existing person yet it was intimatedthere has been no first for quite some time

2) Oru, the eleventh, was looking for themask of the first on moons spawn and asserted that rake stole it. Yet in MoIlady Envy said rake visited their island several hundred years ago but thesecond in OST (Jan) remembers speaking with the first in his lifetime and we are led to believesegulah are human so would not live hundreds of years. It is possible Rakerevisited the island to steal it, but it seems like a fact that was made upafter the fact just to make a story work.

3) Again referring to MoI, when the firstwas referenced in terms of decision making, the second was also supposed tohave mysteriously disappeared, hence the surprise of sending Mok. I assumedfrom SE's books that the undead segulah who was repeatedly called the secondwas who they were talking about but then all of a sudden there is anothersecond, Jan. Also if there has been no first for a long time and the seconddisappeared then mok would be the highest ranking yet he wasnt...not sure iexplained that very well but hopefully someone will follow my logic.

4) Back to Oru (eleventh), and this one maybe a fail on my part, but in Reapers Gale there was a female segulahrescued/found in the sea and brought back to lether to fight Rhulad. No namewas given but i am pretty sure they said she was eleventh but in OST saidanother character was.

5) In OST Sall (300th who went to monasteryto find traveller) sparred with a female monk and lost, therefore losing his placeamongst the Agatii, was shamed and seemed to feel the need to defer and/orblush (as did Thurule when he was demasked) when facing another person. Yetwhen the female segulah in RG departed the city and passed Fiddler and (iforget the other person) she showed no signs of having lost her rank/pride.

6) More a general question, but, I can acceptthe segulah are very good fighters etc but they seem to be way too inflated tobe mere humans. One or two of them being "super-human" i could get onboard with but having 400 segulah route 30,000 Rhivi, then chase down malazansand "incapacitate 40%" (about 4,000) with virtually no losses justseems too far for me. Oh and not to mention someone able to dodge 13 of 15bolts aimed at him...

7) Lastly, I was surprised and confused bythe characters reactions to the Moranth "bombing" of the Segulah. Themalazans use munitions against troops, use magery against troops and by inlarge I understood the general motto of the malazan army was that winning thewar was the most important goal. Maybe I'm alone in this but I was alwaysconfused as to why the Moranth didn't act in this exact way during all theirengagments.



Random Questions

1) In TtH Blend finds out who put thecontract on their heads (humble measure) yet doesn't act despite being almostobsessed throughout the whole book and in OST she seems to have completelyforgotten the whole issue, really?

2) In GotM Rallick Nom was given Otataraldust and used it all. All of a sudden in OST he magically has acquired more. Otataralis regularly referred to as extortionately expensive, not something you wouldbuy on a whim. After leaving his assassin days behind him then being abruptlyturned out of Lady Varada's/Vorcan's estate he could hardly be walking aroundwith a lot of money (never mind the fact that his previous source Baruk was nowworking for the Legate), so where did he magically procure this otataral dust?

3)K'rul is female? I'm near certain k'rulwas referred to as a he countless times before, did i miss something?

4) Dev'ad Anan Tol (the T'lan Imass youngHarllo found) mentioned he was an inventor but from my memory it was neverhinted that he had any skill with a sword. In MoI Onos toolan (sp) the firstsword of the Imass lost in a fight with Mok the 3rd. Yet this unknown imass allof a sudden is an amazing swordsman and defeats the 6th...another thing thatfeels like it was made up to make the story work.

5) Karsa Orlong is told to wait in/neardarujhistan so he can fulfilll a vow. He was mentioned/referred to in thebeginning of OST yet never played a part from then on. I feel from hispersonality etc he would not be someone to have sat out on the sidelines andwatched all of what occurred in OST without acting himself.

[amphibian]

The placings/numbering of the Seguleh is probably quite fluid and rife with paradoxes that are resolved through combat and people talking to each other. Think of it as one of those giant video game ladders in which people hop around all the time, fall off, disappear, come back, don't come back etc. Life goes on, the ladder goes on and the misfits are bodged somewhere they can sorta fit.

The Moranth innovation was to move handheld grenades, detonate claymores etc. into pure, raw carpet bombing that anyone with a means of aerial transport and a few buckets could access, rather than the decades of intensive work and training a mage takes to wreak the same havoc. This was supposed to be something like the last charge of the samurai into waiting machine guns, but I think ICE botched the execution a bit here and it didn't come off like that much at all.

The Blend/Nom/Tol/Karsa things are up to the writer and ICE chose to do them (and again, I think minorly botch them).

K'rul being female, I kind of liked. K'rul is a god and gender isn't something that necessarily applies to them - excepting those who take upon motherhood/fatherhood aspects (Burn, Father Light) and pairs like Togg and Fanderay, who specifically present themselves as a matched and mated pair or Oponn, who are brother and sister. A god of magic can be male, female, both, none or all of them at once.

[D'rek]

#1/2/3 - these can be resolved if you assume that there was a First at the time of MoI, and he died shortly thereafter, and that Jan was only 4th or lower at that time, as well, but soon rose to 2nd after Mok came back from the Pannion Domin a broken man. It doesn't make perfect sense, but it fits best.


#4 - go with she's the 12th (Reaper's Gale is a bit inconsistant regarding her mask and what rank characters guess she is, anyways)


#5 - It's situational. The 12th, even after losing to Karsa, is still pretty damn ferocious and still presumably ranked higher than thousands of other Seguleh. Losing a duel against a nameless monk when you're in the 300th is presumably a different circumstance. Also, the 12th was alone while Sall was amongst other Seguleh. Plus there's individual personalities - maybe Sall didn't *need* to do anything but felt embarassed.


As Amph says, K'rul can be whatever gender [s]he wants. Antsy does comment similar to you, basically saying "what the hell, I thought K'rul was male!" and the other BBs shrug. So evidently ICE was aware of the inconsistency and it was deliberate.


Karsa presumably doesn't care about political upheavals, he's only waiting around in Darujhistan to kill a god, anyways. If the leadership of this human city changes, it matters little to him - once he leads his Teblor army down into the lowlands he'll burn Darujhistan to the ground no matter who is in charge of it, right?

[Andorion]

simz1987, on 12 September 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

I've just finished reading ICE's OST bookand have yet to read the Dust of Dreams and the subsequent books so if any ofmy points are addressed in later books then please just say so as to avoidspoilers.

Further reading (I previously missed) inthis forum addresses some of the following points but I haven't removed them asthey link with other points.



Segulah

1) I forget the exact quote from MoI butthe first was referred to as if he was an existing person yet it was intimatedthere has been no first for quite some time

2) Oru, the eleventh, was looking for themask of the first on moons spawn and asserted that rake stole it. Yet in MoIlady Envy said rake visited their island several hundred years ago but thesecond in OST (Jan) remembers speaking with the first in his lifetime and we are led to believesegulah are human so would not live hundreds of years. It is possible Rakerevisited the island to steal it, but it seems like a fact that was made upafter the fact just to make a story work.

3) Again referring to MoI, when the firstwas referenced in terms of decision making, the second was also supposed tohave mysteriously disappeared, hence the surprise of sending Mok. I assumedfrom SE's books that the undead segulah who was repeatedly called the secondwas who they were talking about but then all of a sudden there is anothersecond, Jan. Also if there has been no first for a long time and the seconddisappeared then mok would be the highest ranking yet he wasnt...not sure iexplained that very well but hopefully someone will follow my logic.

4) Back to Oru (eleventh), and this one maybe a fail on my part, but in Reapers Gale there was a female segulahrescued/found in the sea and brought back to lether to fight Rhulad. No namewas given but i am pretty sure they said she was eleventh but in OST saidanother character was.

5) In OST Sall (300th who went to monasteryto find traveller) sparred with a female monk and lost, therefore losing his placeamongst the Agatii, was shamed and seemed to feel the need to defer and/orblush (as did Thurule when he was demasked) when facing another person. Yetwhen the female segulah in RG departed the city and passed Fiddler and (iforget the other person) she showed no signs of having lost her rank/pride.

6) More a general question, but, I can acceptthe segulah are very good fighters etc but they seem to be way too inflated tobe mere humans. One or two of them being "super-human" i could get onboard with but having 400 segulah route 30,000 Rhivi, then chase down malazansand "incapacitate 40%" (about 4,000) with virtually no losses justseems too far for me. Oh and not to mention someone able to dodge 13 of 15bolts aimed at him...

7) Lastly, I was surprised and confused bythe characters reactions to the Moranth "bombing" of the Segulah. Themalazans use munitions against troops, use magery against troops and by inlarge I understood the general motto of the malazan army was that winning thewar was the most important goal. Maybe I'm alone in this but I was alwaysconfused as to why the Moranth didn't act in this exact way during all theirengagments.



Random Questions

1) In TtH Blend finds out who put thecontract on their heads (humble measure) yet doesn't act despite being almostobsessed throughout the whole book and in OST she seems to have completelyforgotten the whole issue, really?

2) In GotM Rallick Nom was given Otataraldust and used it all. All of a sudden in OST he magically has acquired more. Otataralis regularly referred to as extortionately expensive, not something you wouldbuy on a whim. After leaving his assassin days behind him then being abruptlyturned out of Lady Varada's/Vorcan's estate he could hardly be walking aroundwith a lot of money (never mind the fact that his previous source Baruk was nowworking for the Legate), so where did he magically procure this otataral dust?

3)K'rul is female? I'm near certain k'rulwas referred to as a he countless times before, did i miss something?

4) Dev'ad Anan Tol (the T'lan Imass youngHarllo found) mentioned he was an inventor but from my memory it was neverhinted that he had any skill with a sword. In MoI Onos toolan (sp) the firstsword of the Imass lost in a fight with Mok the 3rd. Yet this unknown imass allof a sudden is an amazing swordsman and defeats the 6th...another thing thatfeels like it was made up to make the story work.

5) Karsa Orlong is told to wait in/neardarujhistan so he can fulfilll a vow. He was mentioned/referred to in thebeginning of OST yet never played a part from then on. I feel from hispersonality etc he would not be someone to have sat out on the sidelines andwatched all of what occurred in OST without acting himself.

Rake stealing the First Mask has lots of problmes. Aside from the issue of timing, can you imagine Anomander Rake, epic badass, do something so petty?

[amphibian]

There's also the "purposely isolated and xenophobic islanders" dynamic at work. All the population at the time of the Rake appearance knows is that Anomander randomly appeared, came in arrogant, defeated and/or killed some of the top level fighters on the island in about a half hour and then left.

Over the course of a hundred years or so to the present day, that half hour could shift around a bit in content and context due to the echo chamber of time/misinformation/bored people.

[Saitama]

D, on 13 September 2014 - 01:08 AM, said:

As Amph says, K'rul can be whatever gender [s]he wants. Antsy does comment similar to you, basically saying "what the hell, I thought K'rul was male!" and the other BBs shrug. So evidently ICE was aware of the inconsistency and it was deliberate.

They do more than just shrug. Blend explicitly states that K'rul "Always been a she – everyone knows that!". Changing sexes is nothing for an elder, but here the context is different. 'Always been a she' is not about shapeshifting ability, it's about the image mortals (Malazans) have of their ex-god. And Blend, as far as I remember, is Malazan so it can't be attributed to local beliefs.

But the important question is not 'which'- it's 'why'. The revelation comes as a twist, but it has no actual bearing on the story. ICE puts his foot down and proclaims 'no! he is a she!', but nobody asked. Nobody even thought that it was an issue.
Twists without purpose are simple grabs for attention. That, or ICE wanted to assert his equal status as a worldbuilder of Wu (or both).


Two of the things that Karsa likes the most are fighting powerful entities and killing (or at least punishing) slavers. The Tyrant is both. Present- day Karsa mellowed out a bit, but it is still highly out of character for him to ignore a malevolent ruler right under his nose.

This post has been edited by Second Sword: 13 September 2014 - 10:32 AM

[simz1987]

Firstly just want to say a big thanks tothose of you who took the time to read my essay of an OP and responded,massively appreciated.

D, on 13 September 2014 - 01:08 AM, said:

#1/2/3 - these can be resolved if you assume that there was a First at the time of MoI, and he died shortly thereafter, and that Jan was only 4th or lower at that time, as well, but soon rose to 2nd after Mok came back from the Pannion Domin a broken man. It doesn't make perfect sense, but it fits best.

the problem with this theory is when Jan(second) has flashbacks he is talking to the first and the first says he isholding back information as he doesn't want to burden him with some specificknowledge. A point that repeatedly arises throughout the book e.g. when Janwonders if they are doing the right thing in Darujhistan and if maybe this waswhat the first didnt want to burden him with. This being the case, why wouldthe first tell this information to a person/rank who is not going to succeedhim? It sounds like he is being given information that he needs to know when hewill be the leader/highest rank.

The only way I can make things work is if:

1) There was a first not long ago, Jan wasthird, Mok fourth

2) Second disappears

3) It is decided Jan rises to second, Mokto third

4) First gives info to Jan, then dies

5) Rake revisits the island for the secondtime and steals the mask (for reasons unknown)

All that said, the second who disappearedin this theory cannot be the "undead" second as I'm pretty sure itwas said somewhere he has been dead/working for hood for hundreds of yearswhich doesnt fit. Though it is possible im misremembering that part.

amphibian, on 12 September 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

K'rul being female, I kind of liked. K'rul is a god and gender isn't something that necessarily applies to them - excepting those who take upon motherhood/fatherhood aspects (Burn, Father Light) and pairs like Togg and Fanderay, who specifically present themselves as a matched and mated pair or Oponn, who are brother and sister. A god of magic can be male, female, both, none or all of them at once.

I think my issue was really just theinconsistency of it yet from your comments you did make me think of something. Itwas said in an earlier book (i think the prologue where kilmandaros killsscabandari) Elder Gods can take whatever form they like, though seeming chooseone form they prefer over others. I felt despite the EG's being referred to ashe/she they were in actual fact androgynous and it's possible that K'rulappears to people how they think he/she should be. For example i imagine himmale, so he appears male. someone else thinks Krul is female, thus Krul appearsfemale. Though doesn't change the fact he appeared male throughout MoI despitebeing in the presence of both males and females.

It is possible im over thinking things

Second Sword, on 13 September 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

D, on 13 September 2014 - 01:08 AM, said:

As Amph says, K'rul can be whatever gender [s]he wants. Antsy does comment similar to you, basically saying "what the hell, I thought K'rul was male!" and the other BBs shrug. So evidently ICE was aware of the inconsistency and it was deliberate.

They do more than just shrug. Blend explicitly states that K'rul "Always been a she – everyone knows that!". Changing sexes is nothing for an elder, but here the context is different. 'Always been a she' is not about shapeshifting ability, it's about the image mortals (Malazans) have of their ex-god. And Blend, as far as I remember, is Malazan so it can't be attributed to local beliefs.

But the important question is not 'which'- it's 'why'. The revelation comes as a twist, but it has no actual bearing on the story. ICE puts his foot down and proclaims 'no! he is a she!', but nobody asked. Nobody even thought that it was an issue.
Twists without purpose are simple grabs for attention. That, or ICE wanted to assert his equal status as a worldbuilder of Wu (or both).


Two of the things that Karsa likes the most are fighting powerful entities and killing (or at least punishing) slavers. The Tyrant is both. Present- day Karsa mellowed out a bit, but it is still highly out of character for him to ignore a malevolent ruler right under his nose.

Even assuming my theory is correct it doesseem an odd way of either introducing a fact or stamping his authority on theworld. Grab for attention or poorly thought out/written revelation seem themost plausible to me. Definitely felt out of character for Karsa to ignore the tyrant situation and with mention of him in the prologue its just confusing.

This post has been edited by simz1987: 13 September 2014 - 10:57 AM

[Saitama]

Elders can shapeshift and chose their race, but there is no mention (that I remember) of them having the ability to passively adjust their appearance according to preferences of the observers. Nobody ever mistook Mael for a hot woman

'A god's appearance is in the eye of beholder' type of story can quickly turn awkward after one man comments on his goddess' nice boobs, a woman on the same god's manly charms and a third guy joins in how he always assumed that the god looked like a sheep...

I am of the opinion that if the authors had some convoluted answers for such obvious issues, they would/should mention them. That is why I adore Steven Erickson. During one of his Q&A somebody asked him why there are two Pearls - an assassin and a demon inside Dragnipur. Steve answered something to the tune of 'Shit, you got me, nothing grand behind it I just made a mistake' even though I instantly came up with 2-3 different theories how he could save face and pretend to be deep and mysterious and the same time. For a moment, I was even slightly annoyed (I was new to Malazan books back then): 'bro, why are you dispelling my illusions when I'm begging to be fooled?'. In the end, though, it made me respect him even more.
Anybody can conjure assumptions, base them on different assumptions and eventually arrive at something that kinda, sorta fits the facts. The sign of good writing is that one does not have to do that.

RE: Seguleh, I ignored the rank issue because they are driven to constantly reach higher so rankings are ever changing. But the whole 1st, 2nd, 2nd and 3rd seguleh left me puzzled. If it was SE's writing, I might have been bothered to come up with a theory but since it's ICE, meh. It might make sense, it might not. The seguleh are his 'children' and yet I am more confused about the 2nd-undead after OST than I ever was.

[D'rek]

simz1987, on 13 September 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

the problem with this theory is when Jan(second) has flashbacks he is talking to the first and the first says he isholding back information as he doesn't want to burden him with some specificknowledge. A point that repeatedly arises throughout the book e.g. when Janwonders if they are doing the right thing in Darujhistan and if maybe this waswhat the first didnt want to burden him with. This being the case, why wouldthe first tell this information to a person/rank who is not going to succeedhim? It sounds like he is being given information that he needs to know when hewill be the leader/highest rank.

The only way I can make things work is if:

1) There was a first not long ago, Jan was third, Mok fourth

2) Second disappears

3) It is decided Jan rises to second, Mok to third

4) First gives info to Jan, then dies

5) Rake revisits the island for the second time and steals the mask (for reasons unknown)

Why can't there be a First at the time of MoI? Doesn't K'rul specifically refer to one (asking Envy if she was surprised the First sent the 3rd instead of a ton of lower-ranked)?

Maybe it's time to go quote-hunting a bit so we can dump all the relevant info into this thread and work through it...

[Kruppe'sStainedClothing]

i enjoyed the story kind of......

but like.... did anyone else thing this whole story with the tyrants kind of came out of no where????

i dont understand why he didnt do a prologue with some flashbacks to the old tyrants so the readers can understand what kind of threat they were or it is or whatever

[Kanese S's]

simz1987, on 12 September 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

1) I forget the exact quote from MoI but the first was referred to as if he was an existing person yet it was intimatedthere has been no first for quite some time

The reference was by an outsider, speculating on the nature of the Seguleh's punitive "army." The Seguleh are notoriously secretive, and so it's unlikely that an outsider would have detailed knowledge of their political situation.

Quote

2) Oru, the eleventh, was looking for the mask of the first on moons spawn and asserted that rake stole it. Yet in MoI Lady Envy said rake visited their island several hundred years ago but the second in OST (Jan) remembers speaking with the first in his lifetime and we are led to believe Segulah are human so would not live hundreds of years. It is possible Rake revisited the island to steal it, but it seems like a fact that was made up after the fact just to make a story work.

Or, like always, at least one of these characters is mistaken. Don't ever assume in Malazan that just because a character says a thing happened a certain way, that such is necessarily how things happened.

Quote

3) Again referring to MoI, when the first was referenced in terms of decision making, the second was also supposed to have mysteriously disappeared, hence the surprise of sending Mok. I assumed from SE's books that the undead Segulah who was repeatedly called the second was who they were talking about but then all of a sudden there is another second, Jan. Also if there has been no first for a long time and the second disappeared then Mok would be the highest ranking yet he wasn't...not sure explained that very well but hopefully someone will follow my logic.

First, stop assuming things.
Second, the Seguleh Second who is undead could have been replaced long ago. Or they may have waited around for a while hoping he'd return before it was really kind of out of the question and they re-opened that rank. Pretty much nobody who is not a Seguleh themselves knows how Seguleh politics works. Don't take characters' word for things.

Quote

4) Back to Oru (eleventh), and this one maybe a fail on my part, but in Reapers Gale there was a female segulah rescued/found in the sea and brought back to Lether to fight Rhulad. No name was given but i am pretty sure they said she was eleventh but in OST said another character was.

So? During OST we see a challenge for rank. Are you assuming that those never succeed? Also, said seguleh in RG never spoke. It was assumed by other characters that she was 11th. Never confirmed. Even if she was, she may have moved up or down in the hierarchy since then.

Quote

5) In OST Sall (300th who went to monastery to find traveller) sparred with a female monk and lost, therefore losing his place amongst the Agatii, was shamed and seemed to feel the need to defer and/or blush (as did Thurule when he was demasked) when facing another person. Yet when the female segulah in RG departed the city and passed Fiddler and (I forget the other person) she showed no signs of having lost her rank/pride.

Seguleh are still individuals and will cope with defeat in individual ways. Why would you expect two entirely different people to react the same way? Maybe she went right back to the Isle of the Seguleh and announced "So this big guy named Karsa defeated me in a duel, so he's now 11th and I guess I'm now 12th." Or something.

Quote

6) More a general question, but, I can accept the segulah are very good fighters etc but they seem to be way too inflated to be mere humans. One or two of them being "super-human" i could get onboard with but having 400 segulah route 30,000 Rhivi, then chase down malazans and "incapacitate 40%" (about 4,000) with virtually no losses just seems too far for me. Oh and not to mention someone able to dodge 13 of 15bolts aimed at him...

The Seguleh are just really awesome. At fighting in their style. They do have weaknesses.

Quote

7) Lastly, I was surprised and confused by the characters reactions to the Moranth "bombing" of the Segulah. The Malazans use munitions against troops, use magery against troops and by and large I understood the general motto of the Malazan army was that winning the war was the most important goal. Maybe I'm alone in this but I was always confused as to why the Moranth didn't act in this exact way during all their engagements.

The Moranth are not the Malazans. They are an allied, but completely unrelated people.

Quote

Random Questions

1) In TtH Blend finds out who put the contract on their heads (humble measure) yet doesn't act despite being almost obsessed throughout the whole book and in OST she seems to have completely forgotten the whole issue, really?

Perhaps she tried and failed.

Quote

2) In GotM Rallick Nom was given Otataral dust and used it all. All of a sudden in OST he magically has acquired more. Otataral is regularly referred to as extortionately expensive, not something you would buy on a whim. After leaving his assassin days behind him then being abruptly turned out of Lady Varada's/Vorcan's estate he could hardly be walking around with a lot of money (never mind the fact that his previous source Baruk was now working for the Legate), so where did he magically procure this otataral dust?

He was also in a relationship with Vorcan, head of the local assassins' guild. I don't think it's too hard to guess.

Quote

3)K'rul is female? I'm near certain k'rulwas referred to as a he countless times before, did i miss something?

K'rul is an elder god. Specifically the elder god of magic. I think the gender of K'rul's particular manifestation isn't really that much of a concern to said deity.

Quote

4) Dev'ad Anan Tol (the T'lan Imass young Harllo found) mentioned he was an inventor but from my memory it was never hinted that he had any skill with a sword. In MoI Onos toolan (sp) the first sword of the Imass lost in a fight with Mok the 3rd. Yet this unknown imass all of a sudden is an amazing swordsman and defeats the 6th...another thing that feels like it was made up to make the story work.

Maybe what he invented was a better sword. He also may have been being circumspect with Harllo. Why are you assuming people can only have one skill set? Also the 6th is lower than the 3rd.

Quote

5) Karsa Orlong is told to wait in/near Darujhistan so he can fulfilll a vow. He was mentioned/referred to in thebeginning of OST yet never played a part from then on. I feel from his personality etc he would not be someone to have sat out on the sidelines and watched all of what occurred in OST without acting himself.

You're assuming that he's in the loop about what's happening in the city. Also you're assuming he gives a shit about the cities of children. Both I think are faulty assumptions.

[Kanese S's]

Saitama, on 13 September 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

D, on 13 September 2014 - 01:08 AM, said:

As Amph says, K'rul can be whatever gender [s]he wants. Antsy does comment similar to you, basically saying "what the hell, I thought K'rul was male!" and the other BBs shrug. So evidently ICE was aware of the inconsistency and it was deliberate.

They do more than just shrug. Blend explicitly states that K'rul "Always been a she – everyone knows that!". Changing sexes is nothing for an elder, but here the context is different. 'Always been a she' is not about shapeshifting ability, it's about the image mortals (Malazans) have of their ex-god. And Blend, as far as I remember, is Malazan so it can't be attributed to local beliefs.

But the important question is not 'which'- it's 'why'. The revelation comes as a twist, but it has no actual bearing on the story. ICE puts his foot down and proclaims 'no! he is a she!', but nobody asked. Nobody even thought that it was an issue.
Twists without purpose are simple grabs for attention. That, or ICE wanted to assert his equal status as a worldbuilder of Wu (or both).


Two of the things that Karsa likes the most are fighting powerful entities and killing (or at least punishing) slavers. The Tyrant is both. Present- day Karsa mellowed out a bit, but it is still highly out of character for him to ignore a malevolent ruler right under his nose.

Or Antsy and Blend are from different parts of the Empire with different beliefs... it's a multi-ethnic state, after all.

[heavymetaltroll]

K'ruls sex change is explained in FOL.