Malazan Empire: T'lan Imass walking through the surf?! - Malazan Empire

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T'lan Imass walking through the surf?!

#1 User is offline   Malaclypse 

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 04:23 PM

Edit: sorry, forgot to provide context - A dozen Kerluhm T'lan Imass come to meet Silverfox and are quite happy to stand, and even kneel, in the surf:

"T'lan Imass strode forward from the surf...He turned to Silverfox and lowered himself to one knee in the surf." (Iphone page189-190)

I was under the impression that T'lan Imass couldn't make contact with water without risking dissolution. Looking at aome of the references there is the suggestion that dissolution by immersion in water may have an element of choice, I also found the following quote from DG - Hentos Ilm is speaking, having just appeared on the deck of the Silanda:

‘It’s said you can cross oceans,’ the mage muttered, frowning. Felisin
could see he was having trouble following the T’lan Imass’s statements.
So was she.
‘We can cross bodies of water,’ the female acknowledged. ‘But we can
only find our shapes on land.’

And this, seems like Siballe is not quite ready for dissolution yet it happens:

‘You once said that if you were thrown into the
sea, your soul would be freed. That oblivion would come to you. Is this
true?’
‘Yes.’
With one hand he lifted her from the ground, rose and walked to the
sea’s edge.
‘Wait! Teblor, wait! I do not understand!’
Karsa’s expression soured. ‘When I began this journey, I was young.
I believed in one thing. I believed in glory. I know now, ’Siballe, that
glory is nothing. Nothing. This is what I now understand.’
‘What else do you now understand, Karsa Orlong?’
‘Not much. Just one other thing. The same cannot be said for mercy.’
He raised her higher, then swung her body outward.
It struck the water in the shallows. And dissolved into a muddy
bloom, which the waves then swept away.



Discuss.

This post has been edited by Malaclypse: 04 September 2014 - 04:35 PM


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Posted 04 September 2014 - 04:50 PM

Nothing at the shore scene contradicts the Silanda scene, it just means in deep water with no contact to a solid surface (a ship's deck, the ground) they cannot reform. Shallower water shouldn't be a block.


Siballe was so damaged as to be severed from the Ritual. In theory, Siballe, in water with the gradual effects that would wear down the little remaining Tellan, could dissolve.

Unlike say the Imass head Pearl and Lostara leave on a tree, which was willing to just hang out, since it seems it wouldn't rot.
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#3 User is offline   Malaclypse 

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 06:13 PM

Hahaha, as a reformed apologist, I recognize you :D

I'm not convinced - every time T'lan Imass and water come together in the main series, mention is made of the prospect of dissolution. To see them splashing around like baby ducks is at the very least inconsistent with what we have come to expect. You're not wrong as such but it is a jarring difference and I call it inattention to detail :p

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 06:16 PM

View PostMalaclypse, on 04 September 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

Hahaha, as a reformed apologist, I recognize you :p

I'm not convinced - every time T'lan Imass and water come together in the main series, mention is made of the prospect of dissolution. To see them splashing around like baby ducks is at the very least inconsistent with what we have come to expect. You're not wrong as such but it is a jarring difference and I call it inattention to detail :D



So basically 'waaaaah the author doesn't agree with my theory of his work'.


:D right back atcha big guy.
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#5 User is offline   Malaclypse 

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 06:25 PM

Ooooh! I never resorted to such tactics! I am disappoint son.

Have it your way. I only just started it. More to follow :D

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 06:40 PM

I never got the impression that water was an obstacle to the Imass.

I remember other mentions of Imass travelling across the oceans in dust form... I think. In MoI somebody, can't remember who, observes the T'lan Imass travelling along a river or something like that when it is raining in Dust form.

I think dissolving in water is a conscious choice.

If you want to talk about inconsistency, it is mentioned by the Imass themselves that they cannot travel in dust form or through warren because of the Omtose Phellack unveiling in the north. Yet, several times, even at the heart of the ritual, the Imass are shown rising from the earth itself. That made no sense.
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Posted 04 September 2014 - 06:46 PM

I have to agree with Mal on this one - it's one of the things that bothered me the most about Assail.
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Posted 05 September 2014 - 02:37 PM

While the T'lan Imass are probably one of the the closest things in the Malazan world to the standard Vampire/Undead trait, they are not 100%. I don't think there was ever any concrete confirmation that they could not corporalise in water. It simply was faster for them to get around by turning to dust and flowing through water.

Wasn't Onrack in the water at some stage in HoC walking around? I'm thinking when he fights the Catfish thingies after freeing Trull from the wall and dragging him around.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 05 September 2014 - 02:37 PM

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#9 User is offline   Malaclypse 

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 10:34 AM

Psshhh blackzoid, have you read the thread? Specifically the bit about how every time a T'lan Imass gets near a body of water on-camera in the main series, mention is made of the prospect of dissolution - the implication is that it's a serious concern - water offers them something different and possibly scary, depending on their current point of view (ie., whether or not they are ready to meet oblivion). To see them behaving as if immersing themselves in water was no big deal is off-putting. That's my argument.

This post has been edited by Malaclypse: 12 September 2014 - 10:34 AM


#10 User is offline   blackzoid 

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 04:35 PM

But there is a discrepency right in your first post here.
1: That the T'lan Imass can cross bodies of water as dust
2: That the T'lan Imass fear dissolution in said water.

Otherwise how would they have been able to make it to the Silanada if they were so afraid?
If dissolution in water is by choice, then seemingly the T'lan Imass in Assail were choosing not to disslve for good. Or to dissolve at all. I guess we have to discount this though about the solid shape:
"‘We can cross bodies of water,’ the female acknowledged. ‘But we can
only find our shapes on land.’"

But hey, K'rul is a woman now.

EDIT: Didn't a T'lan Imass walk from the harbour in Malaz in The Bonehunters to meet up with Stormy to get his sword back? And it was no big deal?

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 12 September 2014 - 04:37 PM

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 10:10 PM

It is all made up and sometimes it is screwed up
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#12 User is offline   Malaclypse 

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 05:58 AM

View Postblackzoid, on 12 September 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

But there is a discrepency right in your first post here.
1: That the T'lan Imass can cross bodies of water as dust
2: That the T'lan Imass fear dissolution in said water.

Otherwise how would they have been able to make it to the Silanada if they were so afraid?
If dissolution in water is by choice, then seemingly the T'lan Imass in Assail were choosing not to disslve for good. Or to dissolve at all. I guess we have to discount this though about the solid shape:
"‘We can cross bodies of water,’ the female acknowledged. ‘But we can
only find our shapes on land.’"

But hey, K'rul is a woman now.

EDIT: Didn't a T'lan Imass walk from the harbour in Malaz in The Bonehunters to meet up with Stormy to get his sword back? And it was no big deal?


That's a good point re: Legana Breed walking into Malaz City from the harbour. Have rep.

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