[Nicodimas]

I'm teasing Gnaw ...its like those folks who always Blame Bush for Katrina.

A little public panic ain't a bad thing...gets more people prepping as far as I am concerned.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 03 October 2014 - 12:05 AM

[Nicodimas]

http://www.bbc.com/n...europe-29514920

The first case of Ebola spawning outside of Africa popped in Spain.

One of the Nurses, where they shipped a Ebola victim has caught the Virus.

I imagine they were being extremely careful if they were basically studying the victim and treatment possibilities...

So this leads people to wonder just how contagious is this, if the person was using all the proper containment procedures??

( The Nurse in question only came into contact with the infected..Twice!! )

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 06 October 2014 - 07:03 PM

[Nicodimas]

I never knew this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25262626

[Abyss]

 Nicodimas, on 06 October 2014 - 06:57 PM, said:

...
So this leads people to wonder just how contagious is this, if the person was using all the proper containment procedures??

( The Nurse in question only came into contact with the infected..Twice!! )

I understood the general view was it's hideously contagious... All it takes is a speck of fluid on the hands and a rub of the eyes or mouth.

[Nicodimas]

Quote

I understood the general view was it's hideously contagious... All it takes is a speck of fluid on the hands and a rub of the eyes or mouth.

That's always been my understanding, except the current -route- is tough. You would expect Nurse/Doctors to take it very seriously and go to the max with PPE.

[Gorefest]

 Abyss, on 06 October 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

I understood the general view was it's hideously contagious... All it takes is a speck of fluid on the hands and a rub of the eyes or mouth.

Doesn't travel far though. On the BBC yesterday they showed a journalist in Sierra Leone confronting a family who had just driven one of their ill relatives to a local clinic, only to be turned away at the door because the clinic was full. The infected guy was sitting in the passenger seat without any form of cover or protection, all his relatives sharing the car were in shorts and t-shirts, no face masks or anything, and the journalist wass not covered up either. She just gave them a box of nitrile gloves and a bottle of desinfectant soap, told them to use that before and after any contact with their relative, and the whole lot got sent back home by the clinic and told to stay indoors until a doctor would come around for a visit.

So either the hospital and the BBC journalist are totally bonkers, or the infection spread is slightly turned into an overblown panic by the media. To be frank, there are far more common diseases out there killing far more people on a yearly basis than the current Ebola outbreak, but Ebola does have symptoms that speak to people's imaginations so it's attractive media feed.


(Not trying to downplay the severity and horror of the current events, mind you, but perspective and objectivity does seem to get lost a bit at the moment)

[Nicodimas]

*In Spain they are now monitoring 22 more suspected cases of person who came into contact with Ebola Carrier...

New Daily rates-->
Active Case Growth Rate: 3.9% per day
Health worker deaths/cases: 216/382

5 Oct 14 - 131/day *
3 Oct 14 - 132/day *
28 Sep 14 - 139/day *
26 Sep 14 - 140/day
24 Sep 14 - 135/day
22 Sep 14 - 124/day
20 Sep 14 118/day
18 Sep 14 - 113/day
16 Sep 14 - 101/day

If it has 50% Mortality it does kind of burn out the compounding interest of 4%/day as in 21 days ..50% of the people who get it die.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 07 October 2014 - 06:51 PM

[Gnaw]

Are you typing from your bunker yet Nico?

[Nicodimas]

Gnaw..No are you?

[Gnaw]

 Nicodimas, on 07 October 2014 - 08:10 PM, said:

Gnaw..No are you?

Claustrophobic.

And sane. Well, not batshit insane.

Ok. Not that brand of batshit insane. I bow before our new virii overlords.

[Abyss]

 Gorefest, on 07 October 2014 - 03:29 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 06 October 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

I understood the general view was it's hideously contagious... All it takes is a speck of fluid on the hands and a rub of the eyes or mouth.

Doesn't travel far though. On the BBC yesterday they showed a journalist in Sierra Leone confronting a family who had just driven one of their ill relatives to a local clinic,...

But there is a reason the disease is spreading in Sierra Leone and nearby countries and your post illustrates it. The population is illiterate, ill informed and not able to be updated or educated, so they will do things like that. Just because the reporter didn't lose her mind and run screaming for the airport doesn't mean everyone in that car isn't at risk. Sure, it's unlikely that all of them will be vomitting blood in 48hrs, but one or two of them might, and if not them, someone in the infected's home more likely. And then they'll make that drive again, the same way, to another clinic, and so on...

I agree that there is a degree of media hyperbole, but this is still ebola doing what it does in places where they are poorly prepared, equipped or able to deal.

[Gorefest]

Absolutely not contesting that. It is a grim situation indeed.

[cerveza_fiesta]

To be honest, in my earlier posts I did think mechanisms in N.America for preventing the spread of Ebola would be a bit more airtight.

Sources I was reading talked about how difficult it would be for it to spread to a place like...oh...I don't know....TEXAS, because the USA and EU countries screen inbound travelers from high-risk countries. I did NOT realize until this all happened that "screening" basically amounts to taking someone's temperature before a flight.

I understand that the disease isn't transmissible before someone is symptomatic, but given a known 2-week incubation period you'd think there would at least be some kind of mechanism for checking up on people in the days after they arrive in the USA to see if everything is still OK. And for the dude to show up at a hospital and say "hey guys, I'm sick as hell and was just in ebola-ridden Liberia" is completely insane.


I dunno...it's shaken my confidence in the airtightness of our borders, but seeing the immediate and proportionally huge response in the US by the CDC is comforting. I mean, they found the 80 most at-risk people right away and know with great certainty exactly who to monitor, where and when. It doesn't mean there won't be more infections but it's a hell of a lot more control than anybody in Liberia has.

[Nicodimas]

One of the 90 People Dallas Patient one came into direct contact with, that the CDC identified showing signs of Ebola. More news to come...

*There will be Temperature checks at airports from passengers from Africa...

Quote

disease isn't transmissible before someone is symptomatic

Many people are believing this is the crux, LA times interviewed a doctor yesterday that stated this might not be true. The belief is it is partially airborne to coughes and sneezes...

Here is how they are dealing with it in America:
http://www.zerohedge...oms-cbs-reports

The situation is how do you send a 1st alarm/hazmat to each one if this blows up. That may be a 2nd alarm and hazmat after looking at the amount of Battalion Chief vehicles.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 08 October 2014 - 07:46 PM

[Nicodimas]

As a heads up the Ebola that guy puked up everywhere was powerwashed off the concrete..think about that.

@ Mezla thoughts on this picture-->
https://twitter.com/...1528704/photo/1


Good news is hospitals are preping now-->
http://www.nbcnews.c...aration-n221441

The allegedly infected guy <#2> was directly in the Ebola Dallas Case One -Apartment- and the good news which contradicts earlier reports "symptoms exhibited were not Ebola-like!" they are isolating him out of precaution.

MORE INFO

“We were told by federal officials, county officials that you would have to come in direct contact with Duncan or direct contact with bodily fluids, and he did not,” said Monnig’s son, Logan about the possibility of his dad contracting Ebola.

Supporting documentation of Aerosels could spread this virus

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7547435

Lethal experimental infections of rhesus monkeys by aerosolized Ebola virus.
Johnson E1, Jaax N, White J, Jahrling P.
Author information
Abstract

Quote

The potential of aerogenic infection by Ebola virus was established by using a head-only exposure aerosol system. Virus-containing droplets of 0.8-1.2 microns were generated and administered into the respiratory tract of rhesus monkeys via inhalation. Inhalation of viral doses as low as 400 plaque-forming units of virus caused a rapidly fatal disease in 4-5 days. The illness was clinically identical to that reported for parenteral virus inoculation, except for the occurrence of subcutaneous and venipuncture site bleeding and serosanguineous nasal discharge. Immunocytochemistry revealed cell-associated Ebola virus antigens present in airway epithelium, alveolar pneumocytes, and macrophages in the lung and pulmonary lymph nodes; extracellular antigen was present on mucosal surfaces of the nose, oropharynx and airways. Aggregates of characteristic filamentous virus were present within type I pneumocytes, macrophages, and air spaces of the lung by electron microscopy. Demonstration of fatal aerosol transmission of this virus in monkeys reinforces the importance of taking appropriate precautions to prevent its potential aerosol transmission to humans.

Int J Exp Pathol. 1995 Aug;76(4):227-36.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 08 October 2014 - 10:38 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

 Nicodimas, on 08 October 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

As a heads up the Ebola that guy puked up everywhere was powerwashed off the concrete..think about that.

@ Mezla thoughts on this picture-->
https://twitter.com/...1528704/photo/1

If I look at that, it won't be a picture of your penis will it?

[Morgoth]

Until you look at it that cannot be known.

[Mezla PigDog]

 cerveza_fiesta, on 08 October 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

I dunno...it's shaken my confidence in the airtightness of our borders,

What did you expect though really? Think of the numbers of people who travel across the US border every day. Then think realistically about the sophistication of cost effective methods to screen that number of people? And not only cost effective but at a cost that governments can really afford to pay! Level 1 is a questionnaire of people from exposure areas where they are expected to self-identify if they are a risk. Level 2 is screening body temperature from people of at-risk flights to see who is running hot - that's only going to pick up infected people who are showing symptoms and probably not all of them plus there will be a lot of noise in that system as you get people showing symptoms for other infections too and then also anyone who is just really hot or stressed out. There is no cost effective sophisticated way of pulling these needles out of the haystack.

I have to admit that the case of the Spanish nurse has increased my worry levels about this. My rational brain is still thinking the same things as earlier but my irrational brain is occasionally thinking "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck". The stupidity of those bloody Spaniards is infuriating and it is things like that that will fuck us all over if a real killer bug ever hits. They had substandard equipment and substandard training so why they didn't call for help from the WHO is frustrating. The infected nurse also touched her face with gloved hands which is a schoolboy error in infectious disease work. I used to work in a lab handling things that could fuck you up and you are simply always aware of your hands and what is on your gloves. It is so prevalent that there are viral internet meme injokes about strange habits you pick up when you are in the lab for long periods and can't use your hands for routine stuff (scientists are hilarious after all).

I'm pretty sure this isn't it but if it is then I recommend lots and lots of handwashing and no touching your face whatsoever. Just let the snot flow and the itches itch!

This post has been edited by Mezla PigDog: 09 October 2014 - 06:04 PM

[cerveza_fiesta]

 Mezla PigDog, on 09 October 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

 cerveza_fiesta, on 08 October 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

I dunno...it's shaken my confidence in the airtightness of our borders,

What did you expect though really? Think of the numbers of people who travel across the US border every day. Then think realistically about the sophistication of cost effective methods to screen that number of people? And not only cost effective but at a cost that governments can really afford to pay! Level 1 is a questionnaire of people from exposure areas where they are expected to self-identify if they are a risk. Level 2 is screening body temperature from people of at-risk flights to see who is running hot - that's only going to pick up infected people who are showing symptoms and probably not all of them plus there will be a lot of noise in that system as you get people showing symptoms for other infections too and then also anyone who is just really hot or stressed out. There is no cost effective sophisticated way of pulling these needles out of the haystack.

I have to admit that the case of the Spanish nurse has increased my worry levels about this. My rational brain is still thinking the same things as earlier but my irrational brain is occasionally thinking "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck". The stupidity of those bloody Spaniards is infuriating and it is things like that that will fuck us all over if a real killer bug ever hits. They had substandard equipment and substandard training so why they didn't call for help from the WHO is frustrating. The infected nurse also touched her face with gloved hands which is a schoolboy error in infectious disease work. I used to work in a lab handling things that could fuck you up and you are simply always aware of your hands and what is on your gloves. It is so prevalent that there are viral internet meme injokes about strange habits you pick up when you are in the lab for long periods and can't use your hands for routine stuff (scientists are hilarious after all).

I'm pretty sure this isn't it but if it is then I recommend lots and lots of handwashing and no touching your face whatsoever. Just let the snot flow and the itches itch!

TBH I didn't expect a magical ebola detector machine at every security gate, but they *were* making it out to seem like the likelihood of anyone getting through to a N. American airport would be vanishingly small...then we hear about this random guy who just went to visit his family in Liberia in the middle of the worst ebola epidemic ever and the best anybody does is take the dude's temperature before he comes home? I'd expect at least they'd hand him a fucking pamphlet saying "if you get these symptoms STAY HOME AND CALL 911 IMMEDIATELY".

I can relate to what you're saing about the rational/irrational thing too. I know I'm still really far away from the problem, but damned if I wasn't checking the news every 5 minutes today when a nearby hospital had an ebola scare (it turned out to be nothing BTW).

[Mezla PigDog]

Here's an article explaining 8 myths about Ebola.