[Khellendros]

Nice little post by EM. It's probably the best he can do. The problem is, of course, that there's no logical way to explain Hentos' actions if he was scum. So even though Ay's comment is reasonable, it is even more reasonable, unless he's gone nuts, that Hentos is telling the truth.

[Brujah]

Khellendros, on 11 July 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

I really don't know why Gusty revealed healer. He and EM could have swung the lynch to Dejim or Ryllandaras today. Kilava has that distancing between me and him to fall back on. The one hope for Gusty is that he revealed before Gnaw revealed his BP - which just makes no sense for a lying killer to do (but that is what he did, heh).


Speaking of, ST has been unusually off this game - maybe all those early deaths in recent games have made him rusty. Of the two, Tatts is talking far more sense (and to be fair to him, has done so all game).

Having just read up on the last posts, I agree wholeheartedly.

I thought ST was playing very well early on, but he is definitely not seeing clearly here at the end. He could of potentially talked town into lynching Hentos.

Fortunately for town, Tatts is EXTREMELY on point. I'm impressed. Those posts refuting ST's cloudy logic and zero'ing in on the facts himself is outstanding. I don't think I've ever seen Tatts be on point this well.

Now let's see if they can not talk themselves out of lynching Kilava.

Ryllandaras, on 11 July 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

Hmm, just turning it over in my brain again - the point about HI just accusing someone else doesn't necessarily hold. If the scum do not know whether or not they have a symp (either because they weren't told or they were told but he might have died), then they wouldn't be to guarantee that they would win if HI decided to focus elsewhere. If the game wasn't in the bag, then they couldn't risk the CF contradicting HI's claimed find.

Still remains the question about why HI would reveal a BP as scum instead of just rolling with Kilava's claim though.

What is ST thinking with this post? Why can't he see the reason Hentos revealed his BP was because this counters Kilava's healer claim, which is EXACTLY what he needs to do since he knows kilava has to be lying therefore IS THE OTHER KILLER. That's why he revealed his BP. How is ST totally blind to this scenario.

[Brujah]

Khellendros, on 11 July 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

Nice little post by EM. It's probably the best he can do. The problem is, of course, that there's no logical way to explain Hentos' actions if he was scum. So even though Ay's comment is reasonable, it is even more reasonable, unless he's gone nuts, that Hentos is telling the truth.

Well, ST seems hell bent on talking himself into lynching Hentos. So with kilava, ay estos, and possibly Rhyll, they'd have 3 votes. Could be dangerously appealing to Okral. But yeah, EM is doing the only thing he can here.

[Brujah]

Ryllandaras, on 11 July 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

Ay Estos, on 11 July 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 11 July 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

Hmm, just turning it over in my brain again - the point about HI just accusing someone else doesn't necessarily hold. If the scum do not know whether or not they have a symp (either because they weren't told or they were told but he might have died), then they wouldn't be to guarantee that they would win if HI decided to focus elsewhere. If the game wasn't in the bag, then they couldn't risk the CF contradicting HI's claimed find.

Still remains the question about why HI would reveal a BP as scum instead of just rolling with Kilava's claim though.

Kinda my point. He needs to lynch Kilava by day so he can NK one of me or Okral by night.

In the scenario you're postulating though, why wouldn't he just let everyone think Kilava had healed him? Then he could get someone else lynched today (because you know it wouldn't be him that gets targeted in that scenario), NK Kilava at night (which would make sense to town because he revealed healer and therefore must die), and then mop up any remaining loose ends on the final day? Instead, he revealed BP, which set up a "him or me" scenario today. That doesn't seem like the right play...

Here he goes again. What is ST trying to say here? He seems to be saying that if Hentos was scum, then revealing the BP doesn't seem like the right play. But if so, he's making it sound like he's saying the BP revel in general was bad play, which could be swaying town. I really don't like how he keeps wording this.

They are starting to doubt themselves. If town lose this game, they should quit mafia, seriously. There is no way that in this scenario they could lynch a revealed finder who nailed scum. They have to risk believing him here. And there's no other safe lynch option that's not Hentos or kilava. They have to know that if there's a symp, and they lynch wrong, its gg. However, they would be safer in risking believing Hentos and lynching kilava. Even if they were wrong, they could gamble on no symp, therefore they'd have another day.

It's cut and dry that kilava has to be lynched. Tatts even keyed in on the fact that before kilava's reveal,they were gonna lynch either himself or kilava, therefore it makes perfect sense for kilava to fake reveal. And even though Tatts is having his best game ever, he's also apt to talk himself out of right decisions. So we'll see.

[Brujah]

Hentos Ilm, on 11 July 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

Ryllandaras said:

1405077754[/url]' post='1134918']
The thing that's bugging me is why HI revealed he had a BP at all. In the scenario where he is killer, it would seem to make more sense to just roll with Kilava's unexpected reveal, say "Great, that explains that!" and then push for a lynch of one of the other players. By counter-revealing he creates an unnecessary me-or-them situation. Even in the case where he's a symp for someone, the fact that Kilava revealed would make them the most likely target for tomorrow's NK, and all he would have to do would be to shepherd the thread away from his master. If he's town, I guess there could be an element of "reveal everything, no matter how implausible". But he would have to know that a Finder/BP combo sounds ridiculous and that it might be better to introduce such a claim with a bit more caution than how he did, which seemed very haphazard.

Reading through but this one needs an answer now. I was fully expecting a guard reveal and a no NK because they withheld.

Embarrassing truth is that I came within a minute of tanking the game for us. I was so surprised that I got a sussesful find and that I had been targeted rather than somebody else, that I slipped there. Had Kilava done anything besides reveal heal at that crosspost, nobody would believe me.

(Although I do see that Kilava may not be lying after all)

Horrible post. Horrible. Horrible. Lack of self confidence. Saying kilava MIGHT not be lying? Wtf. There's no way he's not lying. If town loses his game, this is the post that sunk them.

This post is also very, VERY unclear. Tatts is even asking why he lost his BP if there was a guard. Such a confusing post, even though I see what gnaw as.TRYING to say, he failed miserably. He was trying to say he expected scum to fake reveal guard.

[Khellendros]

And that's it, Tatts has the royal flush - all three scum successfully identified in the correct roles

Dejim Nebrahl, on 11 July 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

Ay Estos, on 11 July 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 11 July 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

In the scenario you're postulating though, why wouldn't he just let everyone think Kilava had healed him? Then he could get someone else lynched today (because you know it wouldn't be him that gets targeted in that scenario), NK Kilava at night (which would make sense to town because he revealed healer and therefore must die), and then mop up any remaining loose ends on the final day? Instead, he revealed BP, which set up a "him or me" scenario today. That doesn't seem like the right play...

Because whoever get's lynched will be unconfirmed town.(you or DN)
Kilava gets NKed because he is healer.
Tomorrow we have me and Okral who he has confirmed as town with you. With us(me at least) far more likely to believe Hentos being scum than you.

Ryll could Ay Estos be Kilava's symp?

Maybe I have just pegged you that way. For me the next 2 lynches should be these two players. One must be scum and we have the option to do it.

[Brujah]

Gnaw's posts aren't making any sense whatsoever to me. I don't even know what he's trying to say.


" I'm replying to Ryll but didn't quote. I was expecting a night resolution of: dead person, killer/symp reveals guard and points finger at me. Bendal spent hours suggesting that very thing.

I was not expecting to see Bendal's CF. Meta, shmeta. That changes my thoughts whether it should or not.

So the "hey prince, bet you weren't expecting that" was a mistake. I should not have said that. It was premature crowing."

Umm, what the fuck? He wasn't expecting to see Bendals CF?
He was expecting a night resolution of: dead person?

He's totally screwing town. He should be making town feel like retards for doubting his reveal. He should be vocal and confident. He's taking forever to respond, and then its unclear, and self doubting.

He should also be searching through kilava's past posts and trying to show him as scum and defending himself.

I'm at loss for words at his weak play.

[Brujah]

Hentos Ilm, on 11 July 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

Dejim Nebrahl, on 11 July 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

Hentos why did you not vote for Kilava?

Why do you now think he was telling the truth?

I didn't vote Kilava because we were all of 30 minutes into the day. again, premature celebration is where I tend to fuck things up.

I specifically stated that I wouldn't vote for anyone without hearing from everyone.

And I don't think he's telling the truth; I said that as I was reading up, it appears that he may be telling the truth. I'm still contemplating that possibility. But I'm not seeing any way for both of us to be doing so.

Dude, quit hammering away at yourself. You're giving them ammo against you and forming doubts. You shouldn't have mentioned anything about withholding kills. Plus no one has mentioned shit about this premature celebration you've now mentioned twice for no reason. You're coming across as a weak, self doubting scum now. It seems like you just realized that if they lynch kilava and he's not scum, that you're trying to justify your actions.

Kilava is playing confident and sticking to simple posts confirming his claim. Gnaw is floundering like a stuck pig.

Gnaw doubting if kilava is scum was the worst thing he could have done. There's no reason for their to be a finder with a BP and a healer. He's should be so obviously scum to gnaw.

What the fuck is up with town and their desire for self sabotage and epic stupidity once its end game.

I've lost all respect for you gnaw. You should, AT MINIMUM, chop off one of your pinky fingers as penance for your resounding retardation. I'm tempting to start studying VooDoo so I can try to hex your face.

[Path-Shaper]

Vid for this lynch (whoever it ends up as is My link. If someone else wants to resolve you know what to do. I'll be back in maybe 4 hours if not.

Gnaw has no orders in yet

-M

[Inane Babble]

HI is really screwing town over with his latest posts, he's just giving Kilava so many opportunities to poke holes in his posts and sound like the reasonable one.

[Inane Babble]

Nope nevermind, I counted wrong.

This post has been edited by Inane Babble: 11 July 2014 - 10:23 PM

[Inane Babble]

It is Day 4. There is 13 hours and 25 minutes remaining

7 Players still alive: Ay Estos, Dejim Nebrahl, Hentos Ilm, Kilava, Okral Lom, Ryllandaras

4 votes to lynch, 4 votes to go to night.

2 votes for Hentos Ilm (Kilava, Ay Estos)
3 Votes for Kilava (Dejim Nebrahl, Hentos Ilm, Okral Lom)

Players not voted:, Ryllandaras

Just out of curiosity, what is the protocol on dead players providing updates like that ^ to the thread when PS isn't around? Also, is that one correct at the time of writing? Not done it before and is fun practice

This post has been edited by Inane Babble: 11 July 2014 - 10:31 PM

[Path-Shaper]

I is back. Hic.

[Path-Shaper]

Looks good - I put the PS password in the first few posts so can jump into PS and do it from there too; don't worry too much about accuracy first time, almost all of my updates this game have involved me posting it, seeing something wrong, editing, seeing something else wrong etc etc. Better to get it right first time but I seem to be struggling with that this game

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 11 July 2014 - 10:41 PM
Reason for edit: Edit: Don't even ask :p

[Inane Babble]

^ Beautiful

[Path-Shaper]

Hentos Ilm, on 11 July 2014 - 08:56 PM, said:

Hey, PS. Would you please confirm action order resolution?

<sigh>


Argh. I should but it'll cause insta-scum loss. I should be un-biased in this, but have said as Venge says "Guard - > Heal - > BP - > Kill" in PMs. Thoughts people?

[Path-Shaper]

Tatts:

Dejim Nebrahl, on 11 July 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

Day 2 was D day, definitely 2 killers. Possibly a symp.

From a scum PoV,

Hentos reveals and we lynch town = scum win. High risk because if there is a better counter with better code from an actual town player, or paired lovers or paired anything then Hentos is screwed but then Bendal is in the clear.

Hentos reveals and we lynch scum. Counter claim from anyone would have been suspect back then. That verifies his claim, he says he had a BP and that it was used. (After Kilava revealed healer)

Kilava could have played it smart and not said anything, I looked like I could be lynched leaving Kilava and possible symp still alive, they kill and reach parity.

Kilava's reveal must be false, not if Hentos is the finder, I don't see a killer giving up his partner when they could win. Now that Kilava has revealed and we lynch him, if he comes back town then we have to lynch Hentos, unless Kilava is a symp to Ryllandaras? Because that connection is still there.

Dejim Nebrahl, on 11 July 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Hentos is symp, killing Bendal to PI Okral

We now waste time lynching Kilava, then Hentos, then maybe Ryll.

Dejim Nebrahl, on 11 July 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

1 ) Sir Thursday Ryllandaras
2 ) Tattersail_ Dejim Nebrahl,
4 ) Gust Hubb Kilava
7 ) The Unfound Okral Lom, Ay Estos, Hentos
8 ) EmperorMagus Okral Lom,
9 ) Gnaw Kilava,


Ay Estos, Hentos Ilm,

Trying to pair people up is ridiculous.

Kilava is 100% Gnaw or GH
Sir Thursday is Ryllandaras

Okral is Unfound
Ay Estos is EM

Hentos is Gnaw but I cannot see him being GH

So Kilava is GH

Based on the above I would not put it past scum GH to code in early.

I would not put it past scum Gnaw to try a dastardly play.

So this doesn't help.

Dejim Nebrahl, on 11 July 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

Hentos is definitely Gnaw.

Mr dastardly diabolical mayhem maker

EM:

Ay Estos, on 11 July 2014 - 12:59 AM, said:

No NK? really?whose idea was this? I want to rant but I'm not, because I'm quite sure they had a logical reason for that. pretty sure. Did Kilava really think the game was going to be over?

Ay Estos, on 11 July 2014 - 01:12 AM, said:

Kilava, on 11 July 2014 - 01:09 AM, said:

Healer would be me. looks like I was successful in protecting HI. the reason I was so awkward in my initial posting was I was coding out "healer," not that it would be rock, but hey, I got it right at least once.

That's such a great Idea!
I just want to strangle him. He is risking it, and risking it bad. I just hope he doesn't NK me.
and he doesn't even think about the possibility that Hentos may have done a find on him.

Really good night now.

Path-Shaper, on 11 July 2014 - 01:13 AM, said:

Agreed, gone 2am here

Ay Estos, on 11 July 2014 - 01:14 AM, said:

Hentos Ilm, on 11 July 2014 - 01:10 AM, said:

I doubt that.
That 'odd bit of wording' was used up. Hey Prince, bet you didn't see that coming did you?
And Ay Estos welcome to the confirmed town. Notice that I specifically did not say CI.

What does he mean now? too tired to figure it out.
I should stop.

Ay Estos, on 11 July 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

For the record, I realize that my posts are full of WIFOM induced shitty logic but I'm grasping at straws.

Ay Estos, on 11 July 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

Gnaw is doing a good job of playing for scum team.

[Brujah]

I best apologize to Gnaw. He seems to have finally gathered his wits to an extent, save for still worrying if kilava could have really healed him.

If you don't have a BP, and a killer targets you, you die. If a healer heals you, you don't.

If you have a BP, and were targeted with a kill, and healed, then it wouldn't make sense to cause the loss of your BP, when the heal stopped you from dying anyway. You shouldn't even be giving this any thought. Your BP was hit, therefore you were targeted by the killer. Your BP was hit, therefore you weren't healed. You weren't healed, yet kilava claims he healed you. Kilava is obvious scum.

At least you've started making cases against kilava for his earlier posts. Therefore...............sorry....

That's all you get. It's all I can muster.




As far as kill order, there's nothing wrong with verifying kill order. You're suppose to let players know how you have your game setup. It's usually in the first post.

[Path-Shaper]

Sir Thursday:

Ryllandaras, on 11 July 2014 - 12:59 AM, said:

Gah, did you give us a healer to go with a finder? That's a bit OP isn't it?

ST

Ryllandaras, on 11 July 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

So in a hypothetical situation in which a player with a BP is simultaneously targeted by a kill and a heal, what happens? Is the BP used up in preference to the heal? Or does the heal happen first?

Path-Shaper, on 11 July 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

Guard - > Heal - > BP - > Kill

In such a situation the Heal would cancel the Kill

Gust:

Kilava, on 11 July 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

Was the missed night kill intentional?

Path-Shaper, on 11 July 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

Kilava, on 11 July 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

Was the missed night kill intentional?

Your NK has been upgraded to every Night.

Posts are correct*





*allowing for previous mistakes in voters, time remaining and the game day. YMMV

Path-Shaper, on 11 July 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

Kilava, on 11 July 2014 - 01:13 AM, said:

kay. new provisional:
kill OL, then AY

Noted and good night

Path-Shaper, on 11 July 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

Kilava, on 11 July 2014 - 01:21 AM, said:

Fuck. Damn you Mess.

Kilava, on 11 July 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

Damn, I hope I am right about Rhyl being my symp. I don't want to kill our only opportunity at a win.

Kilava, on 11 July 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

Tatts is barely holding it together. Just need to push him over...

Path-Shaper, on 11 July 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

Kilava, on 11 July 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

new kill provisional:

kill in this order: dejim, Hi, ol

Noted.

Path-Shaper, on 11 July 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

Kilava, on 11 July 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

Not looking good unless Rhyl is my symp. At least I fought well-ish and hard. Still, a finder with a bullet proof. Given to Tatts! Le sigh.

I was impressed at the coded healer - did you also put Guard in with a different variation? Means posts need to be planned that bit more but provides so much more room to ... bullshit later in game!

Kilava, on 11 July 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

Nope. Just healer. As I said on thread, guard makes no sense.

Kilava, on 11 July 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

Thanks for the compliment too!

[Inane Babble]

IMO kilava took the risk and it bit him in the ass.

The only reason he isn't dead yet is because the people who KNOW the mechanics are so terrified of making a wrong move being so close to victory that they can't remember the resolve order and are asking each other for confirmation.

There is a case to be made to informing or not informing them, but I say do it, Kilava is trying to turn the outcome on this game and in doing so requires PS holding back from posting what is and should be common knowledge.

That (to me) is tantamount to asking for help from PS to help win the game, and we should decline their request

But then, I was town and am might be biased.