Malazan Empire: What happened to the Tyrant and the T'orrud Cabal? - Malazan Empire

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What happened to the Tyrant and the T'orrud Cabal? Specifically Aman and Hinter

#1 User is offline   Messiah X 

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 12:20 AM

Just finished reading OST and preparing to start DoD/TCG (first time reading, so no spoilers please). I was searching the forums for an answer to a few questions but didn't find anything:

First of all, Aman. What exactly happened to him? One second he seemed to be supervising the Seguleh/Moranth battle, and the next he simply disappears. Literally, that's what it says. At the end of the book it seemed like Scorch and Leff tossed him down the well where the Tyrant was found. The body tossed in thewell is explicitly described as being hunchbacked, deformed, and having mismatched eyes - the same description as Aman. However when I was browsing the forum, the general consensus is that Scorch and Leff returned the Tyrant's body to the well. First of all, I don't get this connection: as I said, the body they had was described the same as Aman, and furthermore was chained and gagged. There's no way it was wearing the mask. If this was the Tyrant, how do I reach that conclusion? If it's Aman, what happened to the Tyrant?

It seems like the last time we see the Tyrant, he's writhing on the floor laughing, and has transferred some part of its soul or consciousness into Ebbin, who is subsequently taken to the Azath. So what became of the body? One theory I had which is a bit of a stretch: it was destroyed by Barathol and Humble Measure. In their final scene together they are heating up the furnaces and bringing an iron casket into the ironworks. They say "until next time..." "hopefully there won't be a next time..." yada yada and then it is implied that Humble has turned Circle Breaker. Could this have been meant to imply that they cremated the body or melted down the gold mask? Or am I stretching it too far and that casket was really just holding the leftover Dragnipur bolts/fragments so they could have them ready for "next time" the Tyrant comes back?

Finally, the other members of the T'orrud Cabal all seem accounted for. Baruk and Vorcan have been restored, Derudan was hiding out and keeping herself in a drugged stupor, and Taya is locked up in Vorcan's basement. Aman is debatably at the bottom of a well or blinked out of existence. What happened to Hinter though? Is it just me, or did it seem like ICE forgot about him? I mean I remember him visiting the other Genabackan cities and demanding their allegiance, and I think I recall him described a few times after that, but I must have missed the part where his fate was explained? Was he a part of the group that attacked K'Rul's bar? When K'Rul came out to save the day, did he/she banish Hinter into oblivion? Or was that "begone!" simply meaning that she was kicking the Cabal out of her bar/temple?
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#2 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 07:34 PM

View PostMessiah X, on 20 June 2014 - 12:20 AM, said:

Just finished reading OST and preparing to start DoD/TCG (first time reading, so no spoilers please). I was searching the forums for an answer to a few questions but didn't find anything:

First of all, Aman. What exactly happened to him? One second he seemed to be supervising the Seguleh/Moranth battle, and the next he simply disappears. Literally, that's what it says. At the end of the book it seemed like Scorch and Leff tossed him down the well where the Tyrant was found. The body tossed in thewell is explicitly described as being hunchbacked, deformed, and having mismatched eyes - the same description as Aman.... If it's Aman, what happened to the Tyrant?


My take... the body they tossed down the well was Aman, while the Tyrant's body was killed when they repeatedly perforated him with the Dragnipur crossbow bolts.

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It seems like the last time we see the Tyrant, he's writhing on the floor laughing, and has transferred some part of its soul or consciousness into Ebbin, who is subsequently taken to the Azath. So what became of the body? One theory I had which is a bit of a stretch: it was destroyed by Barathol and Humble Measure. In their final scene together they are heating up the furnaces and bringing an iron casket into the ironworks. They say "until next time..." "hopefully there won't be a next time..." yada yada and then it is implied that Humble has turned Circle Breaker. Could this have been meant to imply that they cremated the body or melted down the gold mask? Or am I stretching it too far and that casket was really just holding the leftover Dragnipur bolts/fragments so they could have them ready for "next time" the Tyrant comes back?


Gah, i'm blanking on what happened to the mask... someone help out here with some quote fu...?

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...What happened to Hinter though? ...


Either he's hanging out in his tower, or Krul did indeed banish him. It wasn't a key point to the resolution, i think.
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#3 User is offline   Messiah X 

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 07:15 PM

Is it ever implied what Dragnipur shards actually do? It was obvious that they were still dangerous to touch, hence the wax and Barathol's OCD attack, but in the end the Tyrant's body was still there. Does a fragmented Dragnipur still function as a trap for its victims souls? There always seemed to be some inconsistency as to whether the whole body was sucked in or not. In this case, the Tyrant's body was still there, and the wounds where the Dragnipur bolts hit were steaming. Is it possible that the Tyrant is trapped in a sundered Dragnipur warren? I don't believe it ever explicitly says what happened to the mask, which is why I made the leap to Barathol and Humble melting it down in the forge (although that scene could have implied any number of things).

As for Hinter, I'm going to assume that K'Rul banished him after rechecking that section where it says "the shade of Hinter faded away, astonishment on its face." and the fact that he doesn't show up again for the rest of the book

This post has been edited by Messiah X: 22 June 2014 - 11:05 PM

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#4 User is offline   PLUGO 

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 09:16 PM

I just finish OST the other day and I'm quickly realizing I missed a few significant details. Must return to it after BLOOD & BONE.

On thinking about the T'orrud Cabal and witnessing the consequences of the conversation Baruk had with Vorcan, back in Toll the Hounds, a thought occurred to me. Back in Garden's of the Moon Vorcan goes about "killing" members of the cabal who seem to become conveniently incompetent and easily killed. In Toll the Hounds she admits that she was actually helping to stage their deaths so that they might flee Darujhistan and avoid becoming thralls to the Tyrant.


On seeing that each member of the cabal are apparently more than human, Demon/Human hybrids or Demons in human guises I began thinking of Mammot. We know he observed Raest's awakening and understand he's become enthralled only to die in the overgrown garden behind Cole's estate. But what if that was another staged death?

What if Mammot actually switched places with his familiar Mody? Sacrificing it to the fate of possession by Raest and providing it with the human form while he himself hides in Bhoka'rala form. In this way he's still able to protect Crokus as they travel the path of hands and finally sequester himself in Tremorlor where he could do some good (protect the Azath) rather than become a tool of a evil (presumably again).

Probably it's a stretch, but once I started thinking along those lines I really enjoyed the idea of Mammot going to such lengths to protect both his city and his nephew. At least the theory gives him some agency where before he struck me as an unfortunately 2 dimensional plot device. It also added a nice parallel to the final fate of the scholar Ebbin who, it seems, will serve as a companion to Raest in their own Azath.

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#5 User is offline   Andorion 

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 04:07 AM

View PostPLUGO, on 10 January 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

I just finish OST the other day and I'm quickly realizing I missed a few significant details. Must return to it after BLOOD & BONE.

On thinking about the T'orrud Cabal and witnessing the consequences of the conversation Baruk had with Vorcan, back in Toll the Hounds, a thought occurred to me. Back in Garden's of the Moon Vorcan goes about "killing" members of the cabal who seem to become conveniently incompetent and easily killed. In Toll the Hounds she admits that she was actually helping to stage their deaths so that they might flee Darujhistan and avoid becoming thralls to the Tyrant.


On seeing that each member of the cabal are apparently more than human, Demon/Human hybrids or Demons in human guises I began thinking of Mammot. We know he observed Raest's awakening and understand he's become enthralled only to die in the overgrown garden behind Cole's estate. But what if that was another staged death?

What if Mammot actually switched places with his familiar Mody? Sacrificing it to the fate of possession by Raest and providing it with the human form while he himself hides in Bhoka'rala form. In this way he's still able to protect Crokus as they travel the path of hands and finally sequester himself in Tremorlor where he could do some good (protect the Azath) rather than become a tool of a evil (presumably again).

Probably it's a stretch, but once I started thinking along those lines I really enjoyed the idea of Mammot going to such lengths to protect both his city and his nephew. At least the theory gives him some agency where before he struck me as an unfortunately 2 dimensional plot device. It also added a nice parallel to the final fate of the scholar Ebbin who, it seems, will serve as a companion to Raest in their own Azath.

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Very cool theory and it adds an entirely new dimension to Moby opening the Deadhouse in DG.
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