[pathos]

Another random thought.

What if Nic feels that by triggering the apocalypse he is helping to stop "the enemy" (in this case Nemesis).

i.e. If the end of the world happens all mortal souls will be in their respective heavens/hells "safe" from the enemy. There are no more corruptible (humans seem a lot more vulnerable to it in the books and it seems that at least Mab has a way to cure those infected, weird ice statue) mortals being created and calling outsiders in. It also means that without human souls to fight over both parties can focus more on defeating the enemy.

Some sort of logic there?

[Obdigore]

So, it was like 3 hours before I had to be at work when I finished this book, so I'm a bit foggy on the ending, but...

Did Harry actually take the coins out of Hades' vault, or are they just being kept there since the 'church' can't seem to hold on to them?

[pathos]

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 04 June 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

So, it was like 3 hours before I had to be at work when I finished this book, so I'm a bit foggy on the ending, but...

Did Harry actually take the coins out of Hades' vault, or are they just being kept there since the 'church' can't seem to hold on to them?

Think one is incased in the rock from the melting roof and the other one was in the crushed and chopped body that couldnt parkour

[Abyss]

pathos, on 04 June 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 04 June 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

So, it was like 3 hours before I had to be at work when I finished this book, so I'm a bit foggy on the ending, but...

Did Harry actually take the coins out of Hades' vault, or are they just being kept there since the 'church' can't seem to hold on to them?

Think one is incased in the rock from the melting roof and the other one was in the crushed and chopped body that couldnt parkour

He didn't get either of them. LascielAsher was fake buried and UrsielRadgorilla was smushed. No way for him to get the Coins.

[Abyss]

pathos, on 04 June 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Another random thought.

What if Nic feels that by triggering the apocalypse he is helping to stop "the enemy" (in this case Nemesis).

And even better.... What if his diabolical master plan actually triggers the apocaboom.

[HoosierDaddy]

Thoughts after I finished at 6:00 am last night (thank god I'm on 2nd shift right now).

1. GRAIL/SPEAR: I think Nic was secretly after the spearhead, which is what is used to bring the Antichrist back to life in some comics/movies (Constantine (Heron Spear? Is that it's name?). While the Cup of Christ/Holy Grail is BIG DEAL, Nic NEVER lets his main goal be known, and what was he asking Dresden to give him at the end? The spearhead. That being said, corrupting such a sacred vessel literally could have some major effects so I could be wrong.

2. POLKA/POWER I have always liked Butters, but he's getting set-up for a major fall. He is smart, brave, and has access to power: That equals trouble in Dresdenverse if you aren't Dresden. Then again, he has a sword now so maybe he'll live for a while.

3. Murphy Dream/Dresden Laid: It is just so,,,, poorly done. While I appreciate the effort, if you can't do it well its best left off-scene. And Butcher's "I tasted her sex.... yada yada yada" is not well written and seems a bit forced. Then again, whatevs. He doesn't do it often, but it jars when he does.

4. Harry's Baby/Little Girl: An intellectus from Dresden's brain is oxymoronic, but I'll take it. Neat solution to the Bob problem.

5. Michael/Michael/Michael!: Mmmm, that was a great scene. He has such presence, but it has to be used judiciously. I'm glad Butcher has realized this. Can't make a guy a LITERAL deux ex and treat him that way without consequences, both plotwise and literary.

6. Ascher/Of Ash: A great new character with a good backstory that brought the plot around back to Changes and Ghost. Great addition. So long skanky ho. Dresden is master of burning shit down and surviving. There can be only one!

7. MYSTERY/NEMESIS: When Nicodemas was speaking to Deirdre before the gate of blood, he specifically mentioned: "the Enemy not being able to get to her there." I originally read that as Nemesis, as it is everyone's bogeyman, but after reading here and in the book, I think it was more probably speaking about the Christian God/angels/whatevs. That being said, I'm still waiting for a Nemesis controlled Denarian.

8. Let Down/Set it up: I love Dresden, but this is my least favorite book in a while, and I usually LOVE the Denarian books. Top 10 but not by much. Nowhere near top 5 level.

9. INSANE/THEORY: Nicodemas is going to use the Grail to get in contact with Jesus' spirit somehow and resurrect him bringing about Revelations and the literal biblical Apocalyse for his "apocalyptic trilogy."

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 05 June 2014 - 07:08 AM

[Obdigore]

Abyss, on 05 June 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

pathos, on 04 June 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 04 June 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

So, it was like 3 hours before I had to be at work when I finished this book, so I'm a bit foggy on the ending, but...

Did Harry actually take the coins out of Hades' vault, or are they just being kept there since the 'church' can't seem to hold on to them?

Think one is incased in the rock from the melting roof and the other one was in the crushed and chopped body that couldnt parkour

He didn't get either of them. LascielAsher was fake buried and UrsielRadgorilla was smushed. No way for him to get the Coins.

That's what I thought. So why do people keep talking about imprisoning coins in demonreach? It's happening both here and in the other thread. Are they anticipating Harry collecting a few more coins at some point?

[pathos]

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 05 June 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

Abyss, on 05 June 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

pathos, on 04 June 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 04 June 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

So, it was like 3 hours before I had to be at work when I finished this book, so I'm a bit foggy on the ending, but...

Did Harry actually take the coins out of Hades' vault, or are they just being kept there since the 'church' can't seem to hold on to them?

Think one is incased in the rock from the melting roof and the other one was in the crushed and chopped body that couldnt parkour

He didn't get either of them. LascielAsher was fake buried and UrsielRadgorilla was smushed. No way for him to get the Coins.

That's what I thought. So why do people keep talking about imprisoning coins in demonreach? It's happening both here and in the other thread. Are they anticipating Harry collecting a few more coins at some point?

I think it is just a way to stop harry defeating any coin holders, giving the coins to the church so they dont get out and then them geting out again... i.e. if he gets any more coins he should keep them on the island as a more permanent solution to keeping them away from people

[HoosierDaddy]

If Hades can't hold on to them,. who can? It sets up a scenario in which Dresden has no choice but to destroy the coins somehow to stop their circulation if they escape there.

[pathos]

Im pretty sure the 2 in hades vault are going to be kept in there. I think the idea of keeping them on the island is for any future ones he gets if he ever does

[Aptorian]

HoosierDaddy, on 05 June 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

9. INSANE/THEORY: Nicodemas is going to use the Grail to get in contact with Jesus' spirit somehow and resurrect him bringing about Revelations and the literal biblical Apocalyse for his "apocalyptic trilogy."

I agree on that one, only I think he is going to destroy the spirit. Jesus died for our sins. I am not sure how that actually works in the Dresden universe, considering the multiple pantheons and creation myths, but I bet if you destroy the soul of jesus/corrupt it, you will undo what ever Jesus did for mankind. Perhaps making it so that Hell has the right to rise up and judge mankind for the sins of their fathers, fathers, fathers, etc.

[Cause]

Apt Hoc, on 05 June 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 05 June 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

9. INSANE/THEORY: Nicodemas is going to use the Grail to get in contact with Jesus' spirit somehow and resurrect him bringing about Revelations and the literal biblical Apocalyse for his "apocalyptic trilogy."

I agree on that one, only I think he is going to destroy the spirit. Jesus died for our sins. I am not sure how that actually works in the Dresden universe, considering the multiple pantheons and creation myths, but I bet if you destroy the soul of jesus/corrupt it, you will undo what ever Jesus did for mankind. Perhaps making it so that Hell has the right to rise up and judge mankind for the sins of their fathers, fathers, fathers, etc.

I think Butchr cleverly makes it so that the angels, the fallen, Satan and God etc are forced to hold back from interfering overtly in the world because taking a real world religion and messing with it to an overt degree would create enormous problems. Real world backlash but also many readers losing their suspension of disbelief or becoming uncomfortable. I'm not Christian but I think Jesus making an actual appearance in the books in any way beyond his relics would be a step too far.

Also I think protecting the soul of Jesus/God would be the kind of thing that the Angels could stop using their full powers

[champ]

Cause, on 05 June 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

Apt Hoc, on 05 June 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 05 June 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

9. INSANE/THEORY: Nicodemas is going to use the Grail to get in contact with Jesus' spirit somehow and resurrect him bringing about Revelations and the literal biblical Apocalyse for his "apocalyptic trilogy."

I agree on that one, only I think he is going to destroy the spirit. Jesus died for our sins. I am not sure how that actually works in the Dresden universe, considering the multiple pantheons and creation myths, but I bet if you destroy the soul of jesus/corrupt it, you will undo what ever Jesus did for mankind. Perhaps making it so that Hell has the right to rise up and judge mankind for the sins of their fathers, fathers, fathers, etc.

I think Butchr cleverly makes it so that the angels, the fallen, Satan and God etc are forced to hold back from interfering overtly in the world because taking a real world religion and messing with it to an overt degree would create enormous problems. Real world backlash but also many readers losing their suspension of disbelief or becoming uncomfortable. I'm not Christian but I think Jesus making an actual appearance in the books in any way beyond his relics would be a step too far.

Also I think protecting the soul of Jesus/God would be the kind of thing that the Angels could stop using their full powers

I agree with the Jesus comment but I can see that threat been potrayed and Uriel sacrificing himself or doing something to cause himself to Fall, now it has been mentioned, bringing about the apocolypse!

[Lady Bliss]

Awesome read on the beach in Cancun! I think that the spearhead will have some significance, but was really thinking that Nick is going to use the Grail to restore/heal/rejuvenate someone.

[Abyss]

HoosierDaddy, on 05 June 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

...
I'm still waiting for a Nemesis controlled Denarian....

Thorned Namshiel, possibly.

[Obdigore]

Abyss, on 11 February 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 05 June 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

...
I'm still waiting for a Nemesis controlled Denarian....

Thorned Namshiel, possibly.

I would guess its more than one, but I also feel like the Denarians are now Kill on Sight by anyone signed on to the Unseelie Accords.

Also, I have a feeling they are going to show up and in the 'final apocalyptic trilogy' to try and help protect the world. They don't want to knock the game board over, they want to play on it.

[Illuyankas]

Let's be real here, the final trilogy is going to have all thirty Denarians on the field (on one side or another), and I say there's more than a decent chance of Nicodemus not being one of them

Spoiler

cause Harry will have his coin, YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST

[Abyss]

Illuyankas, on 11 February 2016 - 08:16 PM, said:

Let's be real here, the final trilogy is going to have all thirty Denarians on the field (on one side or another), and I say there's more than a decent chance of Nicodemus not being one of them

Spoiler

cause Harry will have his coin, YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST

Heh, i was just thinking that.


... we really do need to remove that stray parasitic logicmeme bomb of mine from your left lobe one of these days Illy. I did say i could do the surgery remotely. You don't even have to shave your entire head.

[Aptorian]

Ugh I had happily forgotten about the Nemesis parasite infection bullshit. I really do not like the idea of this memetic bullshit being able to take over gods and other powers.

[Illuyankas]

As an aside since you mentioned memes, never ever ever ever ever read the Iron Druid books because in (I believe) the third one the main character decides to annoy the other demigods and mythical figures he's escaping from danger in a car with by, and I shit you not, talking in lolcat speak. No, I'm serious. He put it in a book. Wrote those words and attached his name so the shame would forever be his. Never dropped a series so fast in my life.

That said, if Nemesis addressed the assembled participants of the Peace Talks in the next book with 'How are you gentlemen' I will probably have a stroke