Malazan Empire: Abyss just finished SKIN GAME.... the shakes haven't started yet... - Malazan Empire

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Abyss just finished SKIN GAME.... the shakes haven't started yet... SPOILERS hic sunt SPOILERS

#1 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 05:05 PM

Mandatory warning,

this is SPOILERS territory for SKIN GAME

and all things Dresdencrack which have gone before....


yes, ALL.



I just finished SKIN GAME. This was rock solid dresdencrack.... didn't displace DEATH MASKS, CHANGES or DEAD BEAT for my top three, but other than that i am a satisfied addict craving more but happy with my fix...

I'm always partial to a good caper book (it's why BEST SERVED COLD remains my favorite Abercrombie work), and in the larger frame of the dresdenverse, SKIN GAME delivered all the best elements... Harry as the reluctant hero with the necessary skills and the impossible task of having to complete the heist but still hold to a personal code, Asher and Valmont both as potential femme fatales and turncoats, Murphy as the close friend out of her depth, Goodman Grey as the cool ambiguous ally/enemy, the Radgorilla as the muscle, Nicodemeus as the evil mastermind... we had the set up, the preliminary steps to get what was needed, the first betrayal, the second, the heist itself, the big throwdown at the scene of the crime, and the bit at the end where the surviving goodguys split the take.

And then there was the dresdenverse goodness.... Mab being Mab, the Fallen being the Fallen, Murphy backing Harry, Murphy and Harry's unrequited love thing, Michael being awesome, multiple insane deadlines....

BEST NEW CHARACTER - The Radgorrilwa was a great baddy. Far smarter than he initially seemed, genuinely a threat to Harry and co, and a new element to the world for those of us who haven't read the Bigfoot short story trilo yet. he played very nicely off Harry, Murphy and Michael and went out with a bang. Well, more of a smush really...

BEST OLD CHARACTER RETURNED AKA I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT BUTTERS - I'll get to Butters in a minute, but Anna Valmont deserves a plug here... she was a good charater back in DEATH MASKS but here Butcher gave her solid motive, a reason for being there, and a good storyline throughout. It was a nice piece of writing to bring her back and thread her through the story in a logical way.

BEST HARRY - Parkour! ...ok fine that joke got a bit stale but the payoff at the Gate of Ice was a nice touch i thought.Dresden had his share of fistpump holy shit that was awesome moments in this book, tho a lot of them were mixed in with the rest of the cast... Mab dominates every scene she's in, the fight at the party was all about Asher and Valmont, the Butters stole the show during the chase to the Library and at the Carpenter house, and most of the fight in Hades Armory (i so love writing shit like that) was as much the baddies and Michael and Grey as Harry at least initially.

But the scene i really enjoyed was when Tess and her Ghouls had Harry and not Harvey cornered, and Harry goes full Winter Knight, throws around some serious ice, gets creative and blasts the living bugfuck out of Tess as a starting point, hitting her in the face with his staff (shut up, perverts).

Also glorious... 'I can't fight him, but i can damn well kill him.'

EVERYTHING IS BETTER WITH BUTTERS - Butcher has been setting this up for years and no one saw it coming (at least no one i knew) and it was All That and a Bag of Chips AND A LIGHTSABRE. Butters giving Harry a hard time was interesting, Butters using Bob to flee Binders goons was great, Butters pulling on Harry's duster and going out to essentially die horribly (he sent Bob away ffs) was awesome... but Butters catching the hilt and going Jedi to sever Nick's sword... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Silly, maybe, but perfectly in keeping with the character(s) and you could practically see the grin on Uriel's face when that went down. Nicely done Jim Butcher, oh, nicely done.
And now we have a nerd mortician polka-fan Jewish Knight of the Cross who has a magic skull, enough gadgets to satisfy Batman and a werewolf girlfriend with a bad habit of becoming a damsel in distress every eighteen months or so... if Butcher ever gets bored with Harry and wants a new pov character in the same universe, he's all set.

OUCH, THAT'S GOTTA HURT - Nick's beatdown of Murphy was brutal and viscerally as uncomfortable to read as it had to be.

OH THE FEELS DAMN YOU BUTCHER THE FEELS - The Maggie scene... i swear i didn't tear up at all. No, really.

OH HELL - Hades was a nice touch, from the mordite halo to their conversation which linked the entire book to the larger Nemisis plot, i really enjoyed that quite pause before everything went fuckballs...

BIG FIGHT GONE BIGGER - Harry and Michael vs Nick/Anduriel and the RadGorillwa... awesome. Harry and Michel vs Nick/Anduriel, Hanna/Lasciel and RadGorilla/Ursiel and oh hey Grey welcome to the partyy OH YEAH THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT THAT'S WHAT I CAME HERE TO SEE. Great fight scene, so very very nicely written in Butcher's usual cinematic style. Loved it.

THIS IS WHY YOU SEVER ALL CONTACT WITH THE EX - Everyone knew we would see Lasciel again sooner or later. I liked how this played out and how her fury against Harry screwed Asher over despite what should have been an incredible advantage. Her knowledge about their 'child' was a nice touch. No way, no way at all that';s the last we see of this Fallen/Host combo.

PARASITES SUCK - The parasite having a Lasciel link has been thrown around as a theory since we learned of it back in GHOST STORY, so i was sort of hoping Butcher would go in a different direction. That said, it was a nice touch in how it was explained and how the explanation subverted what we thought we knew from Mab and Alfred. Also gives Harry a new 'daughter' of sorts and a replacement for Bob, sort of. I look forward to where that storyline goes. Also, Murphy's reaction was priceless.

More when i've had a chance to digest and reread the bestest parts, but those were my initial thoughts having Just Finished It.
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#2 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 08:58 PM

Got to disagree with the Parkour comment I didn't think it got stale - I felt there was just enough gaps between the little (Parkour!) bits to make me forget about them and then giggle when they showed up!

Also I knew his "baby" was going to end up in the second skull as soon as the pregnant revelation happened but I didn't really mind when it did.

Everything else spot on.
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#3 User is offline   Coco with marshmallows 

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 09:29 PM

I just like that Demonreach has another name now.
meh. Link was dead :(
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#4 User is offline   Stormcat 

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 05:04 AM

Anyone else picture Binder as Badger from Firefly?
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#5 User is offline   acesn8s 

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 12:42 PM

Anyone else call Butcher a bastard when it turned out he was dreaming about Murphy in chapter 14?

I really enjoyed the super-powered warden sit down that Hades and Harry had.

"Hey, does that statue look like Molly?"

I'm impressed that Butcher consistently pulls off Michael's unshakable faith (i.e., all is according to God's plan) without it annoying me. I actually look forward to seeing Michael just being the bad ass by being present scenes.

Another solid book!

So, what's up with Molly being able to use a cell phone?
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#6 User is offline   Illuyankas 

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 01:03 PM

I'd been enjoying the lack of cringy sex scenes since Death Masks, personally, so the scene here was ridiculous until the reveal part at the end, though how Harry knew what colour Lasciel's eyes would be is beyond me.

(now I want someone to draw a version of the scene where Lasciel'd up Hannah Ascher appears - all posing and double pairs of eyes and nakedness hidden by strategic pink smoke tendrils - except with Harry instead, Hawkeye Initiative style, and then send it to Butcher directly)
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
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Posted 03 June 2014 - 01:25 PM

Death Masks as a top 3 book? It was great for its time but IMO doesn't stack up to later books. Maybe I need a reread. As far as Denarian books go I'd say Small Favor > Skin Game > Death Masks

This post has been edited by Sussex Months: 03 June 2014 - 01:26 PM

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#8 User is offline   nacht 

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 09:46 PM

Adding to the Abyss tradition :-) with none of his panache :-)

Overall a nice bag of surprises. Butcher is getting really good at this doublecrossing thing.
The best O'Shit I have been had moment - Nicodemus at the end.
The weirdest male pregnancy that ever happened - Harry
Hmm, I didn't really expect this - Nico is working to save the world. - How?
The smartest freaking ploy - Nico giving up his coin to dupe Murph - shit, that was clever.
Weirdest father/daughter relationship - Dierdre What? How?
The 2nd greatest sacrifice - Michael for Harry
The 3rd greatest sacrifice- Uriel for Michael


Btw, I can't remember why Bob can't return to Harry.
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#9 User is offline   Coco with marshmallows 

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 09:55 PM

View Postnacht, on 03 June 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:



Btw, I can't remember why Bob can't return to Harry.


Its not that he can't, its that Harry worries about going "Full Winter Knight", losing his morality, and having access to Bobs knowledge at that point would be a very bad thing.
meh. Link was dead :(
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#10 User is offline   nacht 

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:38 AM

View PostI Am Brian Blessed Not Brent Weeks, on 03 June 2014 - 09:55 PM, said:

View Postnacht, on 03 June 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Btw, I can't remember why Bob can't return to Harry.


Its not that he can't, its that Harry worries about going "Full Winter Knight", losing his morality, and having access to Bobs knowledge at that point would be a very bad thing.


Thanks for the clarification.
The next thing is and I am going be open about it :-)
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#11 User is offline   Illuyankas 

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:46 AM

He was 'performing' parkour around Demonreach as exercise and an additional distraction, but the book is correct in that you don't actually shout Parkour! as you do it.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
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Posted 04 June 2014 - 02:28 AM

Parkour is a hobby of basically running around a city and hopping on and off random objects. Think jumping benches, sliding down railings, diving front rolls off building roofs and not getting hurt or losing much speed.

It's like skateboarding without a board basically. There are many videos of kids doing it all over, but the name comes from French adults who made it famous.
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#13 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 08:50 AM

View Postnacht, on 03 June 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:


The smartest freaking ploy - Nico giving up his coin to dupe Murph - shit, that was clever.



I did not really get that, he dropped his coin and his gun and his sword but he told bigfoot to kill Harry. Essentially he was stilled armed with a monster and he gave it the order to kill. By no morality that I can think of was he at that moment an unarmed inoccent. Though perhaps as even Nico points out it was her screaming damn you that was the problem.
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#14 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 09:37 AM

View PostIlluyankas, on 04 June 2014 - 01:46 AM, said:

He was 'performing' parkour around Demonreach as exercise and an additional distraction, but the book is correct in that you don't actually shout Parkour! as you do it.

Well... some people do...

This post has been edited by Tisteon Simeonus: 04 June 2014 - 09:37 AM

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#15 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 09:51 AM

View PostTisteon Simeonus, on 04 June 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

View PostIlluyankas, on 04 June 2014 - 01:46 AM, said:

He was 'performing' parkour around Demonreach as exercise and an additional distraction, but the book is correct in that you don't actually shout Parkour! as you do it.

Well... some people do...



@Tiste, your the best Christian I know. Nico, you kill him or you don't kill him?
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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:01 PM

What if Molly hasn't taken to Winter Lady as easily as everyone believes?

Mab talking to Harry near Whatsup Dock.

The messages Harry sent to Molly were altered to suit Mab's needs.
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#17 User is offline   acesn8s 

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:16 PM

View PostCause, on 04 June 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

View Postnacht, on 03 June 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:


The smartest freaking ploy - Nico giving up his coin to dupe Murph - shit, that was clever.



I did not really get that, he dropped his coin and his gun and his sword but he told bigfoot to kill Harry. Essentially he was stilled armed with a monster and he gave it the order to kill. By no morality that I can think of was he at that moment an unarmed inoccent. Though perhaps as even Nico points out it was her screaming damn you that was the problem.


I think it has more to do with the Swords main purpose being to combat the Fallen Angels, not defeating evil humans. Once Nico showed a willingness to be separated from his coin, Murph was obligated to make the attempt. In her head she had intent to kill him and not even make the attempt to "save" him.

Like others have said, is it possible for Harry to imprison the coins in Demonreach?
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#18 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:53 PM

View PostCause, on 04 June 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

View PostTisteon Simeonus, on 04 June 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

View PostIlluyankas, on 04 June 2014 - 01:46 AM, said:

He was 'performing' parkour around Demonreach as exercise and an additional distraction, but the book is correct in that you don't actually shout Parkour! as you do it.

Well... some people do...



@Tiste, your the best Christian I know. Nico, you kill him or you don't kill him?

I think he has had his chance. Michael has given him many many opportunities to turn down the coin and repent. He clearly doesn't want to & enjoys being evil. Yeah he needs to die. I imagine Butcher will kill him off eventually but whether he ends up repenting or sacrificing himself in order that Harry & chums can defeat Nemesis thus earning his salvation I dunno. Not that you can "earn" salvation irl but you know...
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#19 User is offline   End of Disc One 

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:09 PM

View Postacesn8s, on 04 June 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

View PostCause, on 04 June 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

View Postnacht, on 03 June 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:


The smartest freaking ploy - Nico giving up his coin to dupe Murph - shit, that was clever.



I did not really get that, he dropped his coin and his gun and his sword but he told bigfoot to kill Harry. Essentially he was stilled armed with a monster and he gave it the order to kill. By no morality that I can think of was he at that moment an unarmed inoccent. Though perhaps as even Nico points out it was her screaming damn you that was the problem.


I think it has more to do with the Swords main purpose being to combat the Fallen Angels, not defeating evil humans. Once Nico showed a willingness to be separated from his coin, Murph was obligated to make the attempt. In her head she had intent to kill him and not even make the attempt to "save" him.



Also remember back in Death Masks when Cassius dropped the coin, so Michael and Sanya backed off. Harry got pissed and smashed Cassius' knees.
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#20 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 02:07 PM

View PostTisteon Simeonus, on 02 June 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

Got to disagree with the Parkour comment I didn't think it got stale - I felt there was just enough gaps between the little (Parkour!) bits to make me forget about them and then giggle when they showed up!
...


The shouting thing is, i blv, a bit of a joke in Parkour circles, so Harry actually doing it in full blown combat, as opposed to training/annoying the Demonreach prisoners, i found a bit silly.

View PostI Am Brian Blessed Not Brent Weeks, on 02 June 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

I just like that Demonreach has another name now.


'Alfred' was pretty awesome, tho 'Jeeves' or 'Jarvis' would have been good too.

View Postacesn8s, on 03 June 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

...I really enjoyed the super-powered warden sit down that Hades and Harry had.


The bit at the end of the chat where Hades sums up how they're the same and shakes Harry's hand was one of those classic quiet Butcher moments of brilliance.

Quote

I'm impressed that Butcher consistently pulls off Michael's unshakable faith (i.e., all is according to God's plan) without it annoying me. I actually look forward to seeing Michael just being the bad ass by being present scenes.


I'd even say Butcher raised his game on this book. The bit where Michael explains why he doesn't need to hide himself going into the heist was ridiculous yet absolutely logical in view of the character.

Quote

So, what's up with Molly being able to use a cell phone?


Fae don't have the same tech problems human wizards do and she's become more fae than human.
OR her power-up is such that she's found a way around it, which is the sort of creativity we'd expect from her.

View PostIlluyankas, on 03 June 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:


I'd been enjoying the lack of cringy sex scenes since Death Masks, personally, so the scene here was ridiculous until the reveal part at the end, though how Harry knew what colour Lasciel's eyes would be is beyond me.


He spent three years with her in his head...how would he NOT know what color her eyes were?

View PostSussex Months, on 03 June 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:


Death Masks as a top 3 book? It was great for its time but IMO doesn't stack up to later books. Maybe I need a reread. As far as Denarian books go I'd say Small Favor > Skin Game > Death Masks


The book intro'd the other Knights then killed one, gave Harry a Sword, expanded the concept of God in the dresdenverse and the finale on the train in DEATH MASKS with Harry and Marcone fighting Nick and Deidre to stop a Shround of Turin triggered plague bomb was one of the most cinematic, kinetic, exciting action scenes i had ever read til then or since.

View Postnacht, on 04 June 2014 - 01:38 AM, said:

View PostI Am Brian Blessed Not Brent Weeks, on 03 June 2014 - 09:55 PM, said:

View Postnacht, on 03 June 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Btw, I can't remember why Bob can't return to Harry.


Its not that he can't, its that Harry worries about going "Full Winter Knight", losing his morality, and having access to Bobs knowledge at that point would be a very bad thing.


Thanks for the clarification.


Also the effect that the influence of a full Winter'd out Harry would have on Bob... we've seen in DEAD BEAT and GHOST STORY that Bob mimics, to an extent his owner. Harry comments on this in either GHOST or WINTER.


View PostTattersail_, on 04 June 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

Mab talking to Harry near Whatsup Dock.


I loved that bit, esp when Mab made her point by stepping onto the island.

View Postacesn8s, on 04 June 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

View PostCause, on 04 June 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

View Postnacht, on 03 June 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

The smartest freaking ploy - Nico giving up his coin to dupe Murph - shit, that was clever.



I did not really get that, he dropped his coin and his gun and his sword but he told bigfoot to kill Harry. Essentially he was stilled armed with a monster and he gave it the order to kill. By no morality that I can think of was he at that moment an unarmed inoccent. Though perhaps as even Nico points out it was her screaming damn you that was the problem.


It WAS a very clever evil plan, and got the sense Nick had done it before. He did do a nice little retrospective about how most knights serve for about three hours and he's been killing them for centuries.

I think it has more to do with the Swords main purpose being to combat the Fallen Angels, not defeating evil humans. Once Nico showed a willingness to be separated from his coin, Murph was obligated to make the attempt. In her head she had intent to kill him and not even make the attempt to "save" him.


Yep, and Murphy even said earlier that the point of the swords is to save the Hosts from the Fallen, so given the opportunity to do that and opting to go for the kill, she used the Sword for an impure purpose and it broke.

Her cursing him 'Damn you!' probably didn't help since that essentially called on God out loud to support everything she wasn't supposed to be doing.

Tho' we also learn that the way this played out, it seems the Divine plan the whole time was for Murphy to break the Sword so it could be re-booted for Butters.

View PostSussex Months, on 04 June 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

Also remember back in Death Masks when Cassius dropped the coin, so Michael and Sanya backed off. Harry got pissed and smashed Cassius' knees.


Nice recall.


Quote

Like others have said, is it possible for Harry to imprison the coins in Demonreach?


Probably, but he doesn't have any of them as of the end of the book.

There's also the notion that the Coins are somehow supposed to circulate.

View PostTisteon Simeonus, on 04 June 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

View PostCause, on 04 June 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

@Tiste, your the best Christian I know. Nico, you kill him or you don't kill him?

I think he has had his chance. Michael has given him many many opportunities to turn down the coin and repent. He clearly doesn't want to & enjoys being evil. Yeah he needs to die. I imagine Butcher will kill him off eventually but whether he ends up repenting or sacrificing himself in order that Harry & chums can defeat Nemesis thus earning his salvation I dunno. Not that you can "earn" salvation irl but you know...


I'm betting on Nick/Anduriel and Uriel both dying to trigger the apocalypsology.
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