[Arathan]

I'm reading a section of TBH describing what is going on in Malaz City on the night the Jade statues are falling from the sky and Heboric saves the world. This quote is in Crust's point of view on page 665 of the Kindle version of the book:

"Four dromons, visible now, rounding into the bay, backlit by one of the ugliest storms he'd ever seen. Well, not entirely true - he'd seen the like once before, hadn't he? And what had come of it? Not a whole lot ... except, that is, a mountain of otataral..."

This makes it seem like Crust was witness to the original jade statue crashing into Otataral Island, and the formation of the Otataral on the island. I'm not sure when this occurred, but I always assumed it was 100s if not 1000s of years prior.

What does everyone else think?

[Aptorian]

My understanding of it is that the arrival and subsequent impact of the Jadestatues is a recurring event. The Jadestatue that Heboric comes in contact with is miles away from the Ottataral mines. Meaning, assuming the O-mines deposits come from an impact, there has been more than one impact on the island.

How ever you also need to remember that Ottataral is some kind of natural phenomena, the world protecting itself and reacting to magical events. For example ottataral appeared in the battle between Kelanved and Olar Ethil if I recall correctly. Maybe that is what Cartheron is remembering.

[Egwene]

Does impact equal Ottataral immediately? If so, then I would guess that he watched the impact at the site of the mines. It would be likely that the Emperor would have send someone to investigate.

@AptHoc: in which book was there a battle between Kelanved and Olar Ethil? I can't remember that at all.

[Aptorian]

I am actually trying to remember if Olar Ethil is mentioned specifically or if it was one of the other Super Bonecasters.

It's not an event that takes place in the books nor a flashback. It's mentioned by Admiral Nok at one point and maybe somebody else. I believe it was the battle for Li Heng when the Emperor was still fighting to consolidate the Empires territory.

Supposedly the battle created a mountain of otataral, although I assume that is not meant literally.

EDIT: Didn't find anything in the wiki. It's too late in the evening for me to bother looking through the books.

This post has been edited by Apt Hoc: 16 April 2014 - 08:26 PM

[Egwene]

Apt Hoc, on 16 April 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

I am actually trying to remember if Olar Ethil is mentioned specifically or if it was one of the other Super Bonecasters.

It's not an event that takes place in the books nor a flashback. It's mentioned by Admiral Nok at one point and maybe somebody else. I believe it was the battle for Li Heng when the Emperor was still fighting to consolidate the Empires territory.

Supposedly the battle created a mountain of otataral, although I assume that is not meant literally.

EDIT: Didn't find anything in the wiki. It's too late in the evening for me to bother looking through the books.

Thanks for looking anyway. Maybe someone with a Kindle and a search function can help out??!!!

Edit:of course, Admiral Nok is around at the same time as Crust, so maybe it's the same event but recounted in different ways...

This post has been edited by Egwene: 16 April 2014 - 08:32 PM

[Aptorian]

Instead of going to bed I spent and hour googling and searching the wiki.

I think I mixed up Olar Ethils battle with the mages on Kartool, with Kelanveds fight against Ryl and Treach at Li Heng.

Still not sure about where Kelanved had a battle that created a mountain of Otataral.

This thread also mentions it and also discussed Catheron and the Jadestatues:

http://forum.malazan...o-how-its-made/

[D'rek]

Apt, I think the idea that what Cartheron is thinking of in that quote being the taking of Kartool is simply an idea created by the forum because at the time that tBH came out it was the most massive magical event we knew that Cartheron could have easily witnessed (in GotM they say that Olar Ethil versus the Kartool sorcerors was a battle that made Tayschrenn's attack on Moon's Spawn look like child's play).

[worry]

I'll go ahead and throw in the cheat answer: he saw it in some magic mirror in the Azath network.

[Egwene]

Thanks Apt, credit for looking given

The mountain... born on a rumour, I guess!!!

[Aptorian]

No, no, I am certain the battle that created a ton of Otataral is somewhere in the book and it's Nok that mentions it.

Am I crazy? Does anyone else remember Kelanved or somebody else being involved in a sorcery battle that created Otataral?

[Traveller]

Not right away, but I remember there being references to such huge battles - otataral is basically any geological material that has been drained of the fuel necessary to create magic.

So a huge battle would drain all the ground around it, whereas the presence of the Jade statues affected the rock immediately surrounding them, forming after the impact.

From archaelogical experience, I've always thought of otataral as similar to the mineral deposits that form round buried iron objects. Sometimes you find a large, irregular lump of sandy, rusty, heavy material, that has formed around a common object like a nail or knife blade, which can usually be found in the middle of it all somewhere.

That works for the Jade, anyway... but isn't there a huge area of 'dead ground' in one of the books where no one can do magic as it's already been leached dry? Probably the same thing happens after Beak lets loose. Don't know if that formed otataral though.

I need a reread.

[Rictus]

Traveller, on 17 April 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

That works for the Jade, anyway... but isn't there a huge area of 'dead ground' in one of the books where no one can do magic as it's already been leached dry? Probably the same thing happens after Beak lets loose. Don't know if that formed otataral though.

In Reaper's Gale there is one, on the Awl'dan. I think it was called Bast Fulmar, where Redmask and the Letherii fight and their mages are useless.

[Imperial Historian]

The sources of otataral we know of are bast fulmar, caused by the tellan ritual which gave birth to the imass, the laederon plateau (karsas home) presumably created in the jaghut imass war and otataral island, conflictingly referenced as caused by the ritual which gave birth to the divers and the end of the first empire and the fall of the jade giant (trake refers to the eastlands of a distant continent, whilst in genabackis, so it is probably seven cities and otataral island, but at a stretch could be elsewhere, maybe the jade giant is somehow attracted to an area where the warrens are weakest ie where the ritual took place). Spite and the nameless ones also created otataral in the ritual to free the t'robarhal. I just finished rereading the first 8 Erikson's and esslemonts and pretty sure those are the only references to otataral being present or formed.