[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1.

14 Players still alive: Ampelas, Aparal Forge, Eldat Pressen, Emurlahnis, Hentos Ilm, Iparth Erule, Kadagar Fant, Karatallid, Kilava, Okaros, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Silchas Ruin, Skintick

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

8 Votes for Rikkter ( Ampelas, Prazec Goul, Aparal Forge, Eldat Pressen, Karatallid, Hentos Ilm, Kilava, Skintick )
1 Votes for Eldat Pressen ( Iparth Erule )
1 Vote for Kilava ( Silchas Ruin )

Players not voted: Emurlahnis, Kadagar Fant, Okaros, Rikkter






The day had been a fine one. Sunlight and warmth comforted the weak souls gathered together to hunt for the killers whilst not encouraging movement. Eyes flickered back and forth amongst the figures looking for something, anything. Eventually need drove them to it, putting forward names whilst avoiding the gaze of those they suggest be consumed. A poll was taken against a backdrop of rumbling stomachs and a meal chosen. A blow to the back of the head stunned dinner and they were quickly hoisted onto the spit.

There was no rush for the first bite as there had been on previous days, for who knew what eating divinely blessed flesh might inflict upon them. Eventually a finger was selected and one thrust forward to try it. The crowd held back - there wasn't much meat on a finger after all. When the figure tucked into a more succulent portion the doubts vanished, replaced by no small amount of anger at seeing someone else taking what might have been part of their portion.

The sun set upon a scene of peace and plenty.


Rikkter has been lynched. He was Tapper and Town.

[Skintick]

[Path-Shaper]

The next day the sun had barely broken the horizon before the townsfolk were out and hunting. Who had been picked off in the night? Was it a small pile of ashes indicating a meal hardly worth missing, or large telling of a juicy dinner lost to divine wrath?

There in the crumpled sheets of the Inns finest room a smear of grey and a smell of burnt sheets. Taken in the night, a thief stealing away a future evenings repast. The townsfolk screamed with rage and hunger and set about the hunt for the killers once more.

Prazec Goul has been killed. He was Trull's Son and town.



It is Day 2. 36 hours remaining


12 Players still alive: Ampelas, Aparal Forge, Eldat Pressen, Emurlahnis, Hentos Ilm, Iparth Erule, Kadagar Fant, Karatallid, Kilava, Okaros, Silchas Ruin, Skintick

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: Ampelas, Aparal Forge, Eldat Pressen, Emurlahnis, Hentos Ilm, Iparth Erule, Kadagar Fant, Karatallid, Kilava, Okaros, Silchas Ruin, Skintick

[Kilava]

Skintick said:

1390359576[/url]' post='1107283']
Well, it's what you all seem to want. Again, to reiterate: idiots.

Remove Vote

Vote Rikker

Heh, I'm tempted to spend the rest of the game just trolling you, see if I can make you rageplode

[Skintick]

Smooth... real smooth.

Nighty night fucktards.

[Ampelas]

Yeah, well, I'm gonna straight up

vote Eldat Pressen

cause I still believe he's most likely to be scum based on yesterday. Am heading to bed now, but will have a closer look at Prazec Goul's Day 1. We shall see how things turn out.

[Kilava]

Skintick said:

1390359886[/url]' post='1107291']
Smooth... real smooth.

Nighty night fucktards.

I look forward to your cast iron, foolproof case tomorrow.

[Kilava]

Vote Iparth Erule

Because they like to jump on the easiest votes around. I'll try to get on and post something more substantial on this tomorrow.

[Eldat Pressen]

Iparth Erule, on 21 January 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

I think the consensus amongst town players is a lynch is better than no lynch. I don't like to play for modkill. Either that person posts and is involved or they do not. The modkill on day one should not affect us trying for a lynch even with how tenuous that lynch may be. I do agree that there isn't much to go off, more than likely everyone is looking for the scapegoat, the person to make a mistake, or they do not want to be the first to push the boat out.

Remove Vote

Vote Rikkter

Easiest vote I ever did. Town suggesting we don't lynch and telling us he is not going to vote. Good way to stagnate a thread, we more than likely need everyone to vote to get a lynch, or be active and participate to find scum. So yeah Rikky go stand on that fence and not vote because you're worried about modkill on the first fucking day.

Possibly implying that it's the easiest lynch to (as scum) convince town to follow? Maybe a bit of a freudian slip here?

[Eldat Pressen]

He also calls Rikkter town as if he knows he's town. Only scum could know this unless he was lovers with Rikkter, because no town apart from the aforementioned lovers knows anyone's alignment but their own, while scum are usually more informed.

[Eldat Pressen]

Iparth Erule, on 21 January 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

We don't have the best day one cases. Anyone find it funny that when someone garners two votes ie rikky that kilava threw another vote out there?

Yet he says his vote on Rikkter is the easiest hes ever made. Iparth is starting to get suspicious in my eyes

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 35 hours and 24 minutes remaining


12 Players still alive: Ampelas, Aparal Forge, Eldat Pressen, Emurlahnis, Hentos Ilm, Iparth Erule, Kadagar Fant, Karatallid, Kilava, Okaros, Silchas Ruin, Skintick

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Eldat Pressen ( Ampelas )
1 Vote for Iparth Erule ( Kilava )

Players not voted: Aparal Forge, Eldat Pressen, Emurlahnis, Hentos Ilm, Iparth Erule, Kadagar Fant, Karatallid, Okaros, Silchas Ruin, Skintick

[Eldat Pressen]

Dead thread is dead... I'm out for the night, but for now I'll lay my vote down on IE because after rereading his posts, he seems pretty damn suspicious in my eyes.

Vote Iparth Erule

[Emurlahnis]

To be clear I didn't vote because neither train felt right. I think Rikkter was not an informative vote and Pressen just seems like the nail sticking out the most. Skinticks gut feel call was just that, Pressens vote activity seemed legit. I'd rather invest an early vote this time round so no one blames me for inactivity.

The case built up on Pressen needed more meat behind it. As water thin as any day 1 cases tend to be getting a lynch is a good start for town even if it was a poor lynch. I'd rather focus on the back and forth voting with ify comments supporting lazy votes.

Vote Iparth Erule

My vote will rely on a good reply from IE, Kilava has been pretty quick on the uptake. I personaly think Day 1 left us with some good material. unfortunate lynch but good momentum. If we start focusing on our low activity posters I'm supportive of that. We know how Roled players like to be influential in-game but we can't afford the baggage of three speechless heads.

[Iparth Erule]

You got me. I am the killer. That is why I played a little erratically day one. Mafia 101 states that you should not draw too much attention to yourself. I did that didn't I? For fuck sake guys, use your fucking brains. I played nonchalantly. Look at my use of words. I played the way I played so that you would identify me as pro town. I would like to believe I was instrumental in getting a lynch because without my "pleas" and switching of votes the thread may have stagnated. I will address the vote against me in a minute.

I will just pull up a couple of posts..

Antagonizing early on, use of the word Bitch with a capital B..

Iparth Erule, on 20 January 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Are you baffled at my Chesney comment? Need an explanation Bitch?

This post is a little CHEESY..

Iparth Erule, on 20 January 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 20 January 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

I mostly just don't care.

//SNIP//

I was just setting some bait down. Rodine by Rentokill. Better than them live traps.

Don't be a pest, come out and play

A way to draw attention, use of the word Killer

Iparth Erule, on 20 January 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 20 January 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

Guh, I wish I had gotten more than 4 hours of sleep last night. I feel like a zombie today.

No way, 4 hours? That's got to be a killer! Why did you only manage 4? I have at least 7 every night, no questions

Now one of the votes against me uses this post in their argument

Kadagar Fant, on 21 January 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

Where the hell did all these new wacky alts come from? "Rikkter"? "Iparth Erule"? and myself, Kadagar Fant? Fant?
Please refer to me as Kadavar Fart from now on.

Anyways, I am here and you will all respect me.

Now that Rikkter has come up innocent I hope that throws that "theory" out. Kadagar could still be a symp and posted a post like this to point a lynch towards Rikkter or I.

Another theory is that my votes were "off". Bare in mind it is day fucking one and we have shit to go off. This post pissed me off

Rikkter, on 21 January 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

Dearth of replies so far.

Insofar as the game itself: I will not vote now as there's nothing remotely decent to vote anyone for.
Since I have a concert tonight and when back, I'll be off to bed, I don't count on being ever present and probably will not be there during deadlines.

As horrible as this non-commitment to the death of my fellow-dogs/warrens/dragons may sound, Okaros being a party pooper may lead to a reduced suspect pool anyway.

Therefore I think it was an easy vote to place. Rikkter suggested a no lynch, provided that Okaros was going to get Modkilled. I hate people using Modkill as an excuse not to vote and the only team that would not want a lynch would be team scum. So I am sorry but I stand by my reasoning for Rikkter's vote. However, I am glad I switched to Eldat in the end. I will come to that.

This is my vote.

Iparth Erule, on 21 January 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

I think the consensus amongst town players is a lynch is better than no lynch. I don't like to play for modkill. Either that person posts and is involved or they do not. The modkill on day one should not affect us trying for a lynch even with how tenuous that lynch may be. I do agree that there isn't much to go off, more than likely everyone is looking for the scapegoat, the person to make a mistake, or they do not want to be the first to push the boat out.

Remove Vote

Vote Rikkter

Easiest vote I ever did. Town suggesting we don't lynch and telling us he is not going to vote. Good way to stagnate a thread, we more than likely need everyone to vote to get a lynch, or be active and participate to find scum. So yeah Rikky go stand on that fence and not vote because you're worried about modkill on the first fucking day.

Yet people are just quoting the first sentence of the last paragraph. Picking at straws. Is this what Strawmanning is?

Here we are

Path-Shaper, on 21 January 2014 - 09:12 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 5 hours and 48 minutes remaining

14 Players still alive: Ampelas, Aparal Forge, Eldat Pressen, Emurlahnis, Hentos Ilm, Iparth Erule, Kadagar Fant, Karatallid, Kilava, Okaros, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Silchas Ruin, Skintick

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

2 Votes for Eldat Pressen ( Skintick, Ampelas )
1 Vote for Hentos Ilm ( Kilava )
2 Votes for Rikkter ( Iparth Erule, Prazec Goul )
1 Vote for Kilava ( Silchas Ruin )

Players not voted: Aparal Forge, Eldat Pressen, Emurlahnis, Hentos Ilm, Kadagar Fant, Karatallid, Okaros, Rikkter

5 hours to go. It looks like we are not going to get a lynch. Little to no activity and no clear stand out person for the lynch.

I chose to remove vote and vote Eldat. Surely we can get the numbers for a lynch...

Iparth Erule, on 21 January 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

Oh and I would much rather get a lynch than timeout but no-one seemed to want to vote rikky. I'm hoping we at least get the lynch. I may be back in one hour to respond.

This is a fact, everyone was umming and arring about Rikkter not being around to defend themselves. So for me to come back and see him lynched was a complete surprise.

Here is that switch..

4 votes for Eldat

Kilava, on 22 January 2014 - 01:47 AM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Eldat Pressen


Not because I like it, but because nothing else is even close to happening today.

1 hour left to go. 1 hour! 4 votes on Eldat and 1 on any other contender.

This is start of the vote swing

Aparal Forge, on 22 January 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

Not really thrilled about the case on Eldat. I never like lynches for playing smooth, which is what it amounts to.

At least they seem to be trying to be helpful, while almost the exact opposite can be said of Rikkter. Not lynching day one is never a good idea. Not sure whether saying that on day one is a scum move or not - I don't think there is anyone in the sign up thread new enough to make that as a rookie mistake so it's either a dumb townie comment or wifom.

90% of my day one lynches have been when I was unable to defend myself, so coming out and announcing you are not going to be around to do so does not give you a pass IMO.

I'll be around off and on until we time out in an hour or so and can change my vote if needed. For now

Vote Rikkter

Partially due to what I have said above and partially because I think we can gain more information from the lynch if there are two viable trains going near timeout.

Something stinks that with 1 hour left to go in the day the train turns as it did. I underlined that Aparal is taking my reason for voting Rikkter. Even though everyone said he won't be around to defend himself and that they don't like the Rikkter vote.

I understand Eldat's vote. (Yet right now I cannot shake him as scum) Yet look at it, xpost much, not generally, just remarking on the xpost.

This little exchange seems off. Off thread comm's it looks like to me. Their votes are close together, they feel the need to comment on the xpost in a weird way, and it starts/swings momentum away from the Eldat lynch.

Then Aparal tells us to look towards the low posters the next day...

Aparal Forge, on 22 January 2014 - 02:12 AM, said:

I kinda figured that.

But so that this isn't a nothing post, by this time tomorrow (real time, not game time) I do think we need to start looking at any low posters who haven't picked things up. The bottom three (Kadagar, Hentos and Okaros) have a grand total of five posts between them. Half the players have ten or more at this point, and half have four or less. I will be watching those in the latter category closely.

Path-Shaper, on 22 January 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:

It is Day 1. 30 minutes remaining


14 Players still alive: Ampelas, Aparal Forge, Eldat Pressen, Emurlahnis, Hentos Ilm, Iparth Erule, Kadagar Fant, Karatallid, Kilava, Okaros, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Silchas Ruin, Skintick

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

4 Votes for Eldat Pressen ( Skintick, Ampelas, Iparth Erule, Kilava )
3 Votes for Rikkter ( Prazec Goul, Aparal Forge, Eldat Pressen )
1 Vote for Kilava ( Silchas Ruin )

Players not voted: Emurlahnis, Hentos Ilm, Kadagar Fant, Karatallid, Okaros, Rikkter

30 fucking minutes left. Eldat still has the most votes.

Kara votes Rikkter, then Hentos. Hentos even comments that this "feels odd"

Path-Shaper, on 22 January 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

It is Day 1. 18 minutes remaining


14 Players still alive: Ampelas, Aparal Forge, Eldat Pressen, Emurlahnis, Hentos Ilm, Iparth Erule, Kadagar Fant, Karatallid, Kilava, Okaros, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Silchas Ruin, Skintick

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

7 Votes for Rikkter ( Ampelas, Prazec Goul, Aparal Forge, Eldat Pressen, Karatallid, Hentos Ilm, Kilava )
2 Votes for Eldat Pressen ( Skintick, Iparth Erule )
1 Vote for Kilava ( Silchas Ruin )

Players not voted: Emurlahnis, Kadagar Fant, Okaros, Rikkter

The third and fourth votes on this train swing the momentum and get the Rikkter lynch. Aparal later goes on to point fingers elsewhere

Aparal Forge, on 22 January 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

snip

I agree here.It would have been nice to see reasoning from either Kara or Hentos. The two quick consecutive votes after your previous post look a bit odd.

So that was one fucking big swing away from Eldat. An hour to the end of day the votes are 4 on Eldat with the closest rival being on 1 vote. The main thing here is the time left and people wanting the lynch.

So day two begins

Ampelas, on 22 January 2014 - 03:07 AM, said:

Yeah, well, I'm gonna straight up

vote Eldat Pressen

cause I still believe he's most likely to be scum based on yesterday. Am heading to bed now, but will have a closer look at Prazec Goul's Day 1. We shall see how things turn out.

Ampelas straight up votes Eldat.

It took us quite a lot of time on day one to gather the votes for the lynch and what happens day two, focus is away on what just happened and pointed towards me

[Iparth Erule]

Shit, I started off with a post about how I am not the killer and ended up perplexed at the vote swing. Aparal Forge is scum. I don't know if he is setting up Eldat with the vote swing or not but I would prefer one of these two as scum.

Vote Aparal Forge

I think he needs to explain somethings, especially why he felt the need to push the swing. He was the active voice at the time.

[Kadagar Fant]

Skintick, on 21 January 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

Eldat Pressen, on 21 January 2014 - 04:44 AM, said:

So it seems...

So I might as well do something...

So this is a 14 person game, with 2 scum and a symp as per OP.

So 11 town, 3 scum. That means WCS DDay is day 5 I believe, BCS we win in 3 days.

I won't do any town role spec as that only helps scum, and since this game is only TMDI 4 it shouldn't be too complicated anyhow.

Basically we need a Day 1lynch because if we don't lynch we continue the string of Day1 pt. 2's that have become day 2, and that doesn't help us even get a clue as to who may be scum. But in any case, anyone have any suspicions yet? I know we only have 2 pages of talk , and very little substance, but we're already a third of the way through the day.

I am totally copying and pasting this into future M&P games. Succinct, takes care of a lot of the "helpful townie" BS (BCS, WCS, TMDI comment, comment about not helping scum, and a quick plug for a Day 1 lynch), and sounds 100% authentic townie.

Well, totally copying and pasting unless he is scum... Never trust a 100% authentic townie.

Vote Eldat Pressen

Ok, fine reason to call out someone. Gotta push in a few directions day 1 to see what shakes out and establish some connections.

Skintick, on 21 January 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Eldat Pressen, on 21 January 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

Im sorta here, not particularly attentive right now though.

My main problem with voting for Rikkter is that hes not here to defend himself, so it seems a bit opportunistic to attack him now. But, should no new options present themselves A lynch is better than a no lynch, and Rikkter witholding his vote seems like he's trying to lay as low as possible. So when time gets short Ill likely add my vote on to him.

No response to my vote in him... Interesting. Lynch better than no lynch party-line, check. Why now not particularly attentive? Stab a being nonchalant is my guess.

I doubt rikker is scum. Stupid townie move in classic technicolor with the token sheep following lynch and hedging that we'd expect from day 1. No one wants to lynch a good townie persona just yet, and that is one of the bad moves we always make.

Vote remains where it is.

No reason I can see why Eldat is a better place to vote than Rikter. This indignant tone rings false to me, like trying to make something out of nothing.

Skintick, on 21 January 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

Iparth Erule, on 21 January 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

I think the consensus amongst town players is a lynch is better than no lynch. I don't like to play for modkill. Either that person posts and is involved or they do not. The modkill on day one should not affect us trying for a lynch even with how tenuous that lynch may be. I do agree that there isn't much to go off, more than likely everyone is looking for the scapegoat, the person to make a mistake, or they do not want to be the first to push the boat out.

Remove Vote

Vote Rikkter

Easiest vote I ever did. Town suggesting we don't lynch and telling us he is not going to vote. Good way to stagnate a thread, we more than likely need everyone to vote to get a lynch, or be active and participate to find scum. So yeah Rikky go stand on that fence and not vote because you're worried about modkill on the first fucking day.

Great way to stagnate town, if town is already stagnated that is. Easiest vote? Sounds like laziest vote to me, but whateves. Free country and all.

i would hardly call this stagnate for a day 1. It's a continued push by Skintick on Eldat. That's fine, genuine pushing needs to happen day 1. So far, this seems like good townie play.

Kilava, on 21 January 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

Skintick, on 21 January 2014 - 11:45 PM, said:

Kilava, on 21 January 2014 - 11:24 PM, said:

So, reading through:

Skintick, on 20 January 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

So yet another game with PS on the killer's side, ordaining them and all. Another crazy Santa in the making.

That show reminds me of Minority Report.

What have we here? Refers to only one killer, when we know there are two. Is this:

- Because they are totally inno and haven't paid attention to the number of scum?

- Because they are one of the killers themselves and focusing on that?

- Because they don't know how to use apostrophes properly?

It's like comma-gate all over again.... Try door number three.

Again though, why is one flimsy case more flimsy than the other?

Skintick, on 22 January 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Eldat Pressen, on 22 January 2014 - 12:34 AM, said:

Skintick, on 21 January 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Eldat Pressen, on 21 January 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

Im sorta here, not particularly attentive right now though.

My main problem with voting for Rikkter is that hes not here to defend himself, so it seems a bit opportunistic to attack him now. But, should no new options present themselves A lynch is better than a no lynch, and Rikkter witholding his vote seems like he's trying to lay as low as possible. So when time gets short Ill likely add my vote on to him.

No response to my vote in him... Interesting. Lynch better than no lynch party-line, check. Why now not particularly attentive? Stab a being nonchalant is my guess.

I doubt rikker is scum. Stupid townie move in classic technicolor with the token sheep following lynch and hedging that we'd expect from day 1. No one wants to lynch a good townie persona just yet, and one of the bad moves we always make.

Vote remains where it is.

I was studying for an exam, so yeah, I wasn't paying much attention to mafia

Or you don't need to pay attention...

More pushing.

Skintick, on 22 January 2014 - 02:55 AM, said:

Karatallid, on 22 January 2014 - 02:47 AM, said:

Kilava, on 22 January 2014 - 02:32 AM, said:

Karatallid, on 22 January 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:

This is a tough call. I'm around to change.

vote Rikkter

Would you like to give us an insight into the workings out which led you to pick Rikkter, while you're around? What internal monologues lie behind 'tough call'?

Eldat's sin was his dday summary, I wanted to test if Kadagar was trying to signal Rikkter and Iparth. I am not the final judge or jury. I said I'm around to switch if needed.

Eldat's sin was writing a picture perfect townie statement and then doing little else during the day, claiming his initial helpfulness was to stimulate discussion towards productive ends. No matter how many times it happens, I never cease to be amazed at people's insistence on going for the "scummy" behavior while ignoring how scum truly act, especially in simple M&Ps.

Interesting comment, care to elaborate on how "scum truly act" oh wise one?

Skintick, on 22 January 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

Great "oh you all proved me right you sheeple idiots" reaction-post.


Why do I have an issue with these skintick posts? I actually LIKE his pushing of Eldat. People don't do this enough, or let up the pressure too soon, or say "I'm pushing" which...sort of defeats any bite it might have.

What I DONT like is how this happens at the detriment of all else. He doesn't admit to any other person as being a possible day 1 scum, when in reality there's so little to go on the liklihood of anyone being right seems slim. It's almost like he wanted to set it up just so he can take the high road and call everyone else an idiot. This is rather unhelpful for town. And, by pushing one angle and visibly discarding all others, he limits the connections that anyone can make to him to that one person he's pushing on.

So in summary,

Pushing = good town

poo-pooing everything else and effectively eliminating all other connections = suspicious behavior.

Vote Skintick

[Kilava]

Remove Vote


For the moment, I quite like Iparth's response to the votes on him - although it could be argued that their assessment of their own play could just as easily be labelled symp as town.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 26 hours and 25 minutes remaining


12 Players still alive: Ampelas, Aparal Forge, Eldat Pressen, Emurlahnis, Hentos Ilm, Iparth Erule, Kadagar Fant, Karatallid, Kilava, Okaros, Silchas Ruin, Skintick

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

2 Votes for Iparth Erule ( Eldat Pressen, Emurlahnis )
1 Vote for Eldat Pressen ( Ampelas )
1 Vote for Aparal Forge ( Iparth Erule )
1 Vote for Skintick ( Kadagar Fant )

Players not voted: Aparal Forge, Hentos Ilm, Karatallid, Okaros, Silchas Ruin, Skintick

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 22 January 2014 - 12:39 PM

[Skintick]

Fascinating Fart. I believe this is one of the only times my arguments have been turned back on me Touche'

Scum act like good townies, or they hide, or they slip up and make an obvious mistake, or or or. Yeah, scum don't have one MO, easy to argue, easy to see. Problem is that some behavior gets more weight than others and that being a good townie gets you a PI despite all subtle evidence to the contrary.

Moral: Suspect everyone you myopic motherfuckers.



Yes, I pushed Eldat to the exclusion of all else. I've found that especially on day one, failure to stick to your guns makes you "wishy-washy" and fails to bag you a head so to speak. It can be overdone, but the change in momentum was obvious and all crabby nagging at the end was futile spouting against a flock of the aforementioned.

I still think Eldat is scummy as hell, particularly in reaction to the pressure on him, first ignoring the votes until called on it (oh my, I wasn't paying attention. Sorry people) and then regurgitating real life troubles that may or may not be present, I think people use such drivel freely regardless of whether or not it's even remotely true. And for someone claiming to be helpful, he sure vanished quickly once the heat was on. I can just hear the behind the scenes whispering about laying low closely followed by, psst hey, you're building votes, speak up dude!

Other behavior worth mentioning, now that it is day two, is Kiliva for jumping on insignificant details just as momentum is gaining traction on Eldat (I was calling him on his BS at the time if you need a reference point). I think Kiliva wins a symp award for such behavior, especially in instigating a move from the Eldat train to the Rikkter train (earlier he had stated he liked that later less than the former in terms of cases). Why would a symp vote for their master (or if I am wrong, their partner)? Deniability. At the time, Eldat looked like the way of the future, and you'll notice how fast Kiliva jumped that ship when the opportunity presented.

Finally, IE is a fairly worthwhile target, although I am getting the feeling that he is more like Rikkter than Eldat in being careless with his forming of the Rikkter case in the first place, and thus hanging up a noose for himself as well. That is why I called him on his "easiest vote ever" and didn't end up making a case on him. Again, similar to Rikkter, careless vibe was stronger than the scummy vibe....

But maybe you all still need a few more days to think about good townie strongly correlates with scummy identification. That's ok. It's not like I'm new to this persistently wrong worldview or anything. Only way to make an ironclad case Kiliva is to ironclad the idiots that ignore it. In the meantime:

Vote Eldat