Malazan Empire: How many claim House Shadow - Malazan Empire

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

How many claim House Shadow Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   raze tekniq 

  • I am Jaghut
  • View gallery
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: 08-January 13
  • Location:Azath House

Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:47 PM

So I'm on my re read of Stonewielder and I'm at the part where Kiska, Leoman, "Warran", Jayashul and L'oric just arriving. L'oric and Warran are talking.

Warran: Stolen? The house was empty, unclaimed.

L'oric: The problem I should think, is that too many claim that house.


Now what am I missing? The Tiste Edur claim to be of shadow but I can't remember them claiming to rule it. They did after all abandon it after they shattered it.

So who are these other claimants to Shadow?
0

#2 User is offline   nacht 

  • Emperor
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 952
  • Joined: 16-April 10

Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:24 PM

There are many ways to look at this.

First, Shadow itself is sundered and there are many independent remnants. For example, Dryjhna ruled the one in Raraku.
The Tiste Edur consider themselves the original children/denizens of Shadows. Most of the men-folk believe that Scabandari is the father of shadow. and rightful ruler
The existence of temples and worshipers of Shadowthrone and the Rope implies that historically there was a shadow pantheon familiar to most of the Malazan empire (the so called outhouse of Shadow) which is currently ruled by ST and Cots.

Another way to look at it is that there are many claimaints to the main realm of Shdaow. The original rulers seemed to have been murdered (and if they have descendants, then the descendants could have a claim). We know throughout history many have successfully ruled shadow (albeit for a short time, potentially creating another set of claimants).

Also it seems that if you sit yourself in the throne of shadow (the one hidden in Drift Availi by Rake), you could claim to be the ruler of shadow and get access to some of its power. The Tiste Edure were searching for this throne so that either Rhulad could use it or to prevent other pretenders from claiming it.

This post has been edited by nacht: 22 October 2013 - 05:25 PM

1

#3 User is offline   worry 

  • Master of the Deck
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 12,952
  • Joined: 24-February 10
  • Location:the buried west

Posted 22 October 2013 - 09:09 PM

Indeed. I'm gonna throw out there one more thing: given his involvement with Dryjnha and the Tiste Edur (and fingers in any number of other pies), I suggest that the Crippled God wouldn't mind getting his hands on Shadow. If only because Shadow has its inroads to every other realm, it's one means to an end.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
0

#4 User is offline   Elzhi 

  • Recruit
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 24
  • Joined: 16-January 12

Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:32 AM

I thought the throne on Drift was the "First Throne" of the Imass.

Didn't someone say something about TCG looking to gain control over the T'lan Imass?

Don't forget Telorast and Curdle. And that guy chained to the obelisk. And I think there was another "remnant" of shadow being used by someone...or a people. I can't remember.

This post has been edited by Elzhi: 23 October 2013 - 01:33 AM

Quote

"I believe in our side and theirs, with the good and evil decided after the fact, by those who survive. Among men you seldom find the good with one standard and the shadow with another."
0

#5 User is offline   nacht 

  • Emperor
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 952
  • Joined: 16-April 10

Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:02 PM

View PostElzhi, on 23 October 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

I thought the throne on Drift was the "First Throne" of the Imass.

Didn't someone say something about TCG looking to gain control over the T'lan Imass?

Don't forget Telorast and Curdle. And that guy chained to the obelisk. And I think there was another "remnant" of shadow being used by someone...or a people. I can't remember.


Drift Avalii has the throne of shadow. Bonehunters Quote below

Quote

He heard Icarium ask, ‘Where are we?’
And the Arapay warlock turned. ‘Drift Avalii, warrior. Where resides the Throne of Shadow.’

0

#6 User is offline   nacht 

  • Emperor
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 952
  • Joined: 16-April 10

Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:03 PM

View Postworry, on 22 October 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Indeed. I'm gonna throw out there one more thing: given his involvement with Dryjnha and the Tiste Edur (and fingers in any number of other pies), I suggest that the Crippled God wouldn't mind getting his hands on Shadow. If only because Shadow has its inroads to every other realm, it's one means to an end.


This is an excellent point.

Quote

A dull chill seeped through Cotillion. ‘I see. All right, Edgewalker. It appears that the Crippled God has launched an offensive on multiple fronts. The First Throne of the T’lan Imass and the Throne of Shadow are the ones that concern us the most, for obvious reasons. In these two, we feel we are fighting alone

0

#7 User is offline   raze tekniq 

  • I am Jaghut
  • View gallery
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: 08-January 13
  • Location:Azath House

Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:06 PM

Did Kellanved sit on the throne of shadow and did Andarist allow this? And if so with Anomander's blessing

What about Edgewalker? I know it is never said but the natives of shadow all seem to respect, honour, fear Edgewalker far more than they do the usurper.
0

#8 User is offline   D'rek 

  • Consort of High House Mafia
  • Group: Super Moderators
  • Posts: 10,973
  • Joined: 08-August 07
  • Location::

Posted 23 October 2013 - 05:24 PM

View Postraze tekniq, on 23 October 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Did Kellanved sit on the throne of shadow


Maybe. He certainly had the opportunity to in tBH, if not earlier.


View Postraze tekniq, on 23 October 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

did Andarist allow this?


Would he? Would Shadowthrone even care or just sneak past him? Who knows!


View Postraze tekniq, on 23 October 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

And if so with Anomander's blessing


I don't think Anomander has any sort of psychic link to the Throne of Shadow on Drift Avalii. If he did, you'd think he'd have sent a couple dragons or Tiste Andii assassin mages to help defend it when it was in trouble. So Anomander's blessing is probably moot halfway across the world.


In any case, Shadowthrone does seem to have a great degree of control over the Shadow realm. He knows how it moves and where, he has seeming mastery of the Hounds of Shadow and the races that inhabit the Shadow realm like the Aptorians, Azalans (and possibly Artorallah though we never see them). But who's to say whether those powers come from sitting on the Shadowhouse throne, sitting on the Drift Avalii throne, or neither?!

I suspect it's pretty much just a matter of semantics as long as there is only one person trying to rule the Shadow realm. If another one shows up, then maybe the thrones become a factor in deciding the contest between them, but otherwise the only confirmed importance to them seems to be that claiming the Shadowhouse throne stops Edgewalker from murderizing you.

 worrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
1

#9 User is offline   NefaraisBredd 

  • Fist
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 209
  • Joined: 26-August 13

Posted 27 October 2013 - 05:06 AM

View Postraze tekniq, on 23 October 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Did Kellanved sit on the throne of shadow and did Andarist allow this? And if so with Anomander's blessing

What about Edgewalker? I know it is never said but the natives of shadow all seem to respect, honour, fear Edgewalker far more than they do the usurper.


Kellanved does occupy the throne, in a manner of speaking. Edgewalker makes several references to the fact that SW & COT are not actually the Rulers of Shadow. Edgewalker seems to have access to all aspects of shadow and you are right-he commands respect from all creatures of Shadow. All he needs to do is show up and say, 'you should go now' and the being in question always leaves, no matter how powerful they are. I still think Edgewalker is either Arathan, Ursander, or Grizzn Farl. Or maybe some.other tragic figure left from the war in the Tiste realms.

Anomander allowing SW to.rule shadow doesn't ring true for me. Rake is indifferent.to much, yet he took issue with Malazans, Kell&Dancer in particular. I think he knew (Rake) that shadow was in pieces and impossible to rule absolutely. I also think he knows who Edgewalker is and how much of an asskicker he really is. In other words, Rake prolly knew that Shadow was in good hands. Andarist confirms this (Rake's indifference)when he meets Cutter. I don't have the quote but you likely have the book. I think SW's illusion of the wrecked Throne was symbolic of what is happening to Shadow-it is broken.
0

#10 User is offline   NefaraisBredd 

  • Fist
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 209
  • Joined: 26-August 13

Posted 27 October 2013 - 05:14 AM

I think that Thrones are not as.important/powerful as some readers have suggested. The First Throne was revealed to have quite svere limitations, the Throne of shadow also is compromised.
0

#11 User is offline   nacht 

  • Emperor
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 952
  • Joined: 16-April 10

Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:48 PM

View PostNefaraisBredd, on 27 October 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

I think that Thrones are not as.important/powerful as some readers have suggested. The First Throne was revealed to have quite svere limitations, the Throne of shadow also is compromised.


In what manner was the throne of shadow compromised?
ST basically spun an illusion that the throne was destroyed but it is safe and sound (as well as the power it represents)
0

#12 User is offline   NefaraisBredd 

  • Fist
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 209
  • Joined: 26-August 13

Posted 01 November 2013 - 08:03 AM

View Postnacht, on 29 October 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

View PostNefaraisBredd, on 27 October 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

I think that Thrones are not as.important/powerful as some readers have suggested. The First Throne was revealed to have quite svere limitations, the Throne of shadow also is compromised.


In what manner was the throne of shadow compromised?
ST basically spun an illusion that the throne was destroyed but it is safe and sound (as well as the power it represents)



Since Shadow is shattered into a gazillion pieces, I thought that it is a natural assumption that the Throne is compromised. Also, Edgewalker questions the veracity of SW's claim to the Throne of Shadow. It was my impression that Edgewalker believes that nobody can rule Shadow because it is broken. 'many claimants to the throne' suggests that it hasn't truly been occupied since it was shattered. Scabby Bloodeye was a thug, not a god. He never ruled Shadow either.

This post has been edited by NefaraisBredd: 01 November 2013 - 08:04 AM

0

#13 User is offline   Luperci 

  • Not Bruce Wayne
  • View gallery
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 114
  • Joined: 20-August 13
  • Location:Gotham City
  • Interests:Fighting crime and hanging with my Butler

Posted 30 May 2014 - 06:08 PM

View Postraze tekniq, on 23 October 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Did Kellanved sit on the throne of shadow and did Andarist allow this? And if so with Anomander's blessing

What about Edgewalker? I know it is never said but the natives of shadow all seem to respect, honour, fear Edgewalker far more than they do the usurper.






You just brought up a good point, its been mentioned that those who sit on the Throne are enslaved to the Shadow Realm. Considering ST comes and goes as he pleases maybe he somehow assumed control over the realm whilenot actually sitting on the Throne thereby avoiding the realms curse, for now..
The Harder the world, the fiercer the Honor.

-Dancer
0

#14 User is offline   Abyss 

  • abyssus abyssum invocat
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 18,572
  • Joined: 22-May 03
  • Location:The call is coming from inside the house!!!!
  • Interests:Interesting.

Posted 30 May 2014 - 06:46 PM

i do so love a good thread necro...

TLDR the whole thread, but it seems to me that the thread is mixing up two separate things...

The Throne of Shadow, the 'Shadowthrone', Shadow being Meanas, was what Kellanved and Cotilion ascended to control.

The Throne of Elder Shadow, which presumably originates with Kurald Emurlhan pre-shattering, is sitting in Drift Avalii.

We've seen that people who tried to control the Shadowthrone ended up bound in the warren or in service to it. Kel and Cots did not, or if they did, they convinced the throne that the best way for them to serve it was to go about their agenda.
Also possible that the binding happens at a later time and not right away.
CHASE: Paw Patrol is ready for action Mr Pust sir!
PUST: *pauses ranting* What does that mean?
ZUMA: It means let's dive in, dude!
PUST: What? What is a dude? WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?????
-The Malazan Book of the Paw Patrol
0

#15 User is offline   Inane Babble 

  • Lieutenant
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 110
  • Joined: 12-March 14

Posted 30 May 2014 - 08:57 PM

Spoilers because I don't know when SW takes place, includes a very minor piece of info from TCG

I think the real power of Shadow doesn't come from the owning/sitting on the physical throne, but the shadow the throne casts.

This is probably not what happened, but personally, I think whatever circumstance kel and dancer made use of in their ascension was erm, for lack of a better term, a shadow of Shadow passing over/through Wu, which by some use of the Azath allowed them to access the actual "Shadowthrone".
Spoiler

The reason I bother mentioning this is because I think that only the physical throne is "trapped" and enslaves the rules and that Kel isn't/wont be affected by it.

As to how many people claim to rule shadow: Lots. Lots and lots and lots. Each piece can be "claimed" and Kurald Emurlahn has been around for a LONG LONG LONG time and has built up an impressive list of previous owners, not all of whom accept that little fact.
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users