[Ultama]

example of your play today, just some posts I like. Poke and prod.

Jalan, on 23 October 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

I can dig the explanation about Trake's vote switch, but OTOH it is coming from Hanas and Fanderay.

Trake if you don't mind can you discuss your vote on Monok? I'd like to hear how you saw the situation.

Jalan, on 23 October 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 23 October 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

If I had a vig kill, I would kill you.

Calling for a vig?

Didn't we establish at some poitn a long time ago that that is a terrible thing to do as town?

Jalan, on 23 October 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

Trake, on 23 October 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Jalan, on 23 October 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

I can dig the explanation about Trake's vote switch, but OTOH it is coming from Hanas and Fanderay.

Trake if you don't mind can you discuss your vote on Monok? I'd like to hear how you saw the situation.

I was going to be there for a while to switch if needed, and Monoks play bothered me, so I decided to vote him. I didn't expect my vote to hurt the Ultama train, it would've been 4:1:1 instead of 5:1, and I'd made it clear that I was around and happy to vote Ultama.

Edit: formatting, and missed a word

Can you go deeper? I want to understand your thought process that lead to actually deciding to switch your vote to MO.

Yeah you were going to be around to change it again later, but still switching votes off a train onto someone even if its just for pressure is very noticeable and not something I get the feels you'd have done at some of your other angry times.

Not saying it was necessarily a bad move just trying to get into your PoV more.

Jalan, on 23 October 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

The problem I have with Ultama's weird multi-casing is that he doesn't even stick to his supposed 4 suspects. Even after building four cases on people, he still then goes and analyzes and criticizes Fanderay. Then he has other posts pushing the idea of Trake being symp

ie

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

So when I come back town, you lynch him and we are two down yeah? Fuck sake. Your a dumb ass. Okay let's roll with that. I had a vote from Pallid and you, Monok follows that vote. That is three votes on me. What does Trake do? Trake votes for Monok!!! Which then Monok responds with a self vote. What??

It fuicking blows your mind. Trake should have voted for me and that would have put me on 4 votes, after that it's easy for anyone to vote, Grasp ended up voting, so that is 5, we may have got to a lynch. Out of Monok and Trake I would put Trake as a symp in comparison. Monok didn't have enough posts to be a symp and would he have removed if Trake didn't vote him??

Generally if you're going to make a case you should stick to it and push it. Leave the analysis of other players outside your case to other players to make cases on.

After all, the case you are pushing is the one you most believe is likely to give us scum right?

Instead here we have Ultama making FOUR cases and he STILL can't stick to them, needs to drag other semi-cases into the mix too!

This doesn't look like town play to me. If anything this looks like symp play throwing tons of crap on thread and trying to make a target out of as many players as possible while still trying to maintain a facade of reasonableness.

It seems a bit premature since Monok was always a good target today and so if Ultama is a symp he didn't really need to do this. But I've seen weirder cases of symps going crazy earlier than they need to so I'm going to keep reading into this and see if it goes anywhere.

Jalan, on 23 October 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

So reading back, it seems to me that if I apply Ultama's logic of why he thinks people are scum to himself who is already going totally off the wall, it looks like Ultama is the symp to Ghennan.

(Please for the love of god read this with your tongue in your cheek)

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Whilst looking at a couple of players, a thought did strike me that the killer may have off thread communication which would affect their online presence in thread. So those with low but content ridden posts ring higher on my scum dar, they are taking the time to construct posts on thread but not many of them.

Fits Ghennan? Check

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Cast has on thread interaction with Jalan, with only 4/5 posts this stands out to me a little because that is something you establish off thread. There have been times when I have been scum and that my pardner has asked for a little interaction so that it looks a little like we don't know each other. So Cast makes a post that both Fanderay and Jalan respond to.

There was a fancy little bit of Ultama-Ghennan interaction earlier today, though the "best post evar" bit from Ultama might've been overdoing it.

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Back to casualness.

I think Grasp does not want to come across as confrontational. I think we can count on their vote though when it gets down to it.

That sounds like Ghennan too! His comments on the cases have been very non-critical no matter which way he is commenting.

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Page one is the Jalan show. Look how eager he is to contribute. Biggest play style change of day one is his reclusion (not a word but I like it)(actually it says the condition of being a recluse). Page one he has the majority of his posts with a brief interaction with Fanderay and Cast.

Page 1 is the non-Ghennan show. Look how eager he is to not show up and only post once on day. Biggest play style change of the first couple days is his emulsion (not a word but I like it). Day 1 he has almost no posts except a sudden vote with explanation. Day 2 he suddenly is a contributing member of town with lots of commentary and posts!


So Ultama is a spasming symp and by his very own scumdar logic Ghennan is the real killer!

IGMEOY Ghennan boy!

Jalan, on 23 October 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

On a more serious note (but ISGMEOY Ghennan!) going over Ultama's cases again, he's just putting whatever he can find together and it all seems to lack anything holding it together. Each case has different biases of what constitutes scummy behaviour than the one before.

I feel like if Ultama wanted he could make the same sort of cases on anyone in the game so far and they'd all be just as flimsy except for the MO case. The MO case is the only one with solid evidence of play that is bad for town and behaviour that is definitely not helpful.

Mostly it seems to me to just be an idiotic townie move, but Ultama seeming to deemphasize MO has my hackles raised. Something is wrong here and right now Ultama still feels super sympy so

Vote Monok Ochem


(Please don't be a fucking jester)

[Ultama]

Fanderay, on 25 October 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

Ultama, on 25 October 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Aargh! I just read a lot of your posts day 2 Jalan. You do ask a lot of questions, you do poke around with people's posts and you did make a case and vote. So something else must be nagging me about you. You are actually kinda alright. I have not got the time to go through your posts in depth to find out what it is that bothers me about you.

you do that a lot, y'know,

this is second time you got soundly called out on leveling accusations without much factual basis.

see, this is why a more focused approach on a few players is better than your scattershot-accuse-everyone-of-some-minor-things-and-see-how-they-react one.

I'm fishing. each time the float goes under, it comes back up with sea weed. Sooner or later, I am going to find the fucking big fish. Right now, right now , RIGHT NOW I think I have something. Maybe you'll tell me to go fuck off but what do you think on incoming case?

[Fanderay]

Ultama, on 25 October 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 25 October 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

Ultama, on 25 October 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Aargh! I just read a lot of your posts day 2 Jalan. You do ask a lot of questions, you do poke around with people's posts and you did make a case and vote. So something else must be nagging me about you. You are actually kinda alright. I have not got the time to go through your posts in depth to find out what it is that bothers me about you.

you do that a lot, y'know,

this is second time you got soundly called out on leveling accusations without much factual basis.

see, this is why a more focused approach on a few players is better than your scattershot-accuse-everyone-of-some-minor-things-and-see-how-they-react one.

I'm fishing. each time the float goes under, it comes back up with sea weed. Sooner or later, I am going to find the fucking big fish. Right now, right now , RIGHT NOW I think I have something. Maybe you'll tell me to go fuck off but what do you think on incoming case?

I'll tell you once I see it.

if it's on me (again), i'll tell you to fuck off if you use dodgy reasoning. Otherwise, i'm always willing to listen.

[Jalan]

Ultama, on 25 October 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Aargh! I just read a lot of your posts day 2 Jalan. You do ask a lot of questions, you do poke around with people's posts and you did make a case and vote. So something else must be nagging me about you. You are actually kinda alright. I have not got the time to go through your posts in depth to find out what it is that bothers me about you.

I don't know how to feel about this now.

[Jalan]

Fanderay, on 25 October 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

[snip]

of course.

now, what do you make of Cast twisting the case on me around and then voting for his made-up version of reasons?

IMO, it looks like he's trying to take the path of least resistance.

You're the biggest train and there's an established reason for voting you. Cast looks to me like he's grabbing that reason and hopping on board.

It mostly stinks. For starts, if Cast is going to be online for a while there's no need to vote now unless he really, really believes it. But since he's just repeating the existing Fanderay lynch reason with no extra reasoning or conviction I don't think he does feel very strongly about it.

I might be a bit biased because I think the Fanderay reasoning is total shit, though.

[Ultama]

I already did a post by post of Grasp for day one. Why oh why is day two almost exactly similar. The first post from Grasp AFTER I did the 4 post by post break down he talks about MO, Cast and Togg. Does not mention Jalan or defend himself like the others did. What I am interpreting here is two things. Grasp does not want to get into a pissing match with me. He wants to avoid confrontation and he is quick to lay the blame elsewhere.

What I find interesting, is that he does vote for Cast (throwing his partner under the bus to seem more innocent?) and he does ignore my accusation against Jalan (possibly trying to set him up as his partner or that Jalan is his partner, who knows)

Grasp, on 23 October 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Hopefully Ult and Ghe's convo throws a little water on the Trake machine's song and dance.

Very interesting thoughts, both of you. I am curious to see what MO does and will leave my speculation on him until I see a bit more.

However, you once again brought Cast to my attention (the first instance this attention not noted on thread). I do not feel like I've seen a D-day talk in quite awhile, probably because we've had only faction games going, but having such a speculation on day 1 seems premature, since we have no idea what the scum town balance is. Moreover, a review of his posts shows that's the 1 single post with anything at all, no subsequent committing vote, etc Seems to me somebody is hiding behind a cookie cutter post...

Finally, I find it very very very very suspicious that Togg did exactly what you said he would Ultima. What kind of con are you running. I never trust big contributors, especially the really helpful ones... You want a pair? I would be curious which one of the two of you (Ghe and Ult) are scum.... Well, we'll see how day 2 plays out.

Then you get some discrediting of Trake, pushing him as a symp. Keeping him off balance.

Grasp, on 23 October 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

Morning/afternoon/evening Trakey. I thought you might be a bit more subdued, but don't hold back man, it's a candy store of deep thought up there.

Grasp, on 23 October 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

I do really like the idea of you being a symp. You prodded a lot of people yesterday, but not everyone. And you didn't lay into everyone. I would consider checking out those exclusions.

Again below he mentions Cast and Jalan as his suspects, but would prefer Cast. So the link is there between them, if Grasp comes up scum it points us towards Jalan, as he says he prefers Cast.

Grasp, on 24 October 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

Ghennan, on 24 October 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

So, we have about 14 hours left. Who is everyone leaning towards? I'm thinking either Jalan or Cast

Cast most definitely, so long as he doesn't modkill himself.

Vote Cast

Calls Trake weird from removing his vote.

Grasp, on 24 October 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Trake, on 24 October 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

By my count we have around 5 hours left.

I'm going to

remove vote

Because I don't want to give people the excuse of "oh, it's the only option" amongst other things.

I will be around for time out.

This is weird.

but then jumps onto the Fanderay train "to get a lynch", he also points a finger at Trake again.

Grasp, on 24 October 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Fanderay

So, are we going to time out without a lynch again? Removing a vote 5 hours before the end is trouble if you ask me. Trake is kind of hard to miss, the elephant in the room so to speak, and I'm now really starting to wonder if we are giving him a free pass. We assume the most talkative ones are usually town, often called stupid townies at that, but what if we have scum mascarading as themselves, playing as they would in a game where they have a townie role. I'm doing a case, however painful, on Trake tomorrow, and then probably voting him.

I like the below post, Trake did come off as an arrogant dick.

Grasp, on 24 October 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

I hate to reiterate past experiences people, but scummy behavior is not as sensitive in picking up scum as is pure townie behavior, especially when it is proudly displayed.

Grasp, on 24 October 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

Whew, at least I didn't vote Togg either. Interesting scum strategy, using the modkill to knock off extra players /humorous thought.

joke posts when things are drawing to a close.

Grasp, on 24 October 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Trake, on 24 October 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Grasp, on 24 October 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Fanderay

So, are we going to time out without a lynch again? Removing a vote 5 hours before the end is trouble if you ask me. Trake is kind of hard to miss, the elephant in the room so to speak, and I'm now really starting to wonder if we are giving him a free pass. We assume the most talkative ones are usually town, often called stupid townies at that, but what if we have scum mascarading as themselves, playing as they would in a game where they have a townie role. I'm doing a case, however painful, on Trake tomorrow, and then probably voting him.

Well it's nice that you're making your mind up on your vote before going through the posts and making the case isn't it?

Consider it a replacement vote for someone who can't sit their ass down and stick with a case. You already know I lean toward Cast (and now you), but I won't have another day go by without a lynch because I wanted to make a point.

Mentions Cast yet again but his vote is on Fanderay.

Grasp, on 24 October 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Lock, on 24 October 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

I'm trying to determine how much of the aggression flying around is fake. Seems like macho time in here, somehow.

With avatars like these, how can the testosterone not flow?

Grasp, on 24 October 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

You saying testosterone is exclusively male? Sounds like poor training in biology to me

Starts joking around again.

Two joke posts to put him on the exact number of posts he had the day before. Every single player has had their post count jump up and down, except for Grasp. He went from mostly active day one, to fairly low key in comparison to his fellow players. I like my vote on him for scum.

Vote Grasp.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 5 hours and 37 minutes remaining.


9 players alive: Cast, Fanderay, Ghennan, Grasp, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Trake, Ultama

5 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

3 votes Fanderay: Ghennan, Grasp, Cast
1 vote Jalan: Hanas
1 vote Ghennan: Fanderay
1 vote Ultama: Jalan
1 vote Grasp: Ultama

Players not voted: Lock, Trake

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 25 October 2013 - 02:47 PM

[Lock]

Jalan, on 25 October 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 25 October 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

[snip]

of course.

now, what do you make of Cast twisting the case on me around and then voting for his made-up version of reasons?

IMO, it looks like he's trying to take the path of least resistance.

You're the biggest train and there's an established reason for voting you. Cast looks to me like he's grabbing that reason and hopping on board.

It mostly stinks. For starts, if Cast is going to be online for a while there's no need to vote now unless he really, really believes it. But since he's just repeating the existing Fanderay lynch reason with no extra reasoning or conviction I don't think he does feel very strongly about it.

I might be a bit biased because I think the Fanderay reasoning is total shit, though.

I don't even remember what it is now

[Fanderay]

Lock, on 25 October 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Jalan, on 25 October 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 25 October 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

[snip]

of course.

now, what do you make of Cast twisting the case on me around and then voting for his made-up version of reasons?

IMO, it looks like he's trying to take the path of least resistance.

You're the biggest train and there's an established reason for voting you. Cast looks to me like he's grabbing that reason and hopping on board.

It mostly stinks. For starts, if Cast is going to be online for a while there's no need to vote now unless he really, really believes it. But since he's just repeating the existing Fanderay lynch reason with no extra reasoning or conviction I don't think he does feel very strongly about it.

I might be a bit biased because I think the Fanderay reasoning is total shit, though.

I don't even remember what it is now

reasons to vote me?

Apparently, it's because Hanas was agreeing with me too much, as per Trake.

Those were the initial reasons. Later on, Hanas came on and started "derailing" my lynch, by saying he didn't like the reasoning behind it, and looking at other players.

[Lock]

I remember the Hanas derailing for you thing, I saw that myself, - I was referring to why you were getting voted originally

[Fanderay]

Lock, on 25 October 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

I remember the Hanas derailing for you thing, I saw that myself, - I was referring to why you were getting voted originally

because Hanas was agreeing with me too much when I was attacking Ultama and MO.

[Fanderay]

Trake, on 24 October 2013 - 01:11 AM, said:

Hanas next. Coasts day one.

When he comes back, we get this:

Hanas, on 23 October 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

First impression: Monok Ochem is turning the fairly valid middle-of-the-road accusation into a WIFOM-case by self-voting, at a time where he 'established' that someone else is the only option anyway. I'd say it's a gamble based on the fact that in the collective memory this ridiculous meltdown will survive, not the previous accusation - a meltdown that is then explainable.

Now to forge on. I'll be posting with pauses - still have work to do.

Fairly obvious topic. Seems to be implying MO as symp here.

He does a summary of day one, talks about me and Ultama, it's all pretty non-commital really.

He then picks up Ultama here:

Hanas, on 23 October 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

Here, awake and surprised I am alive. Why the fuck we couldn't get a lynch is beyond me, I knew it, I knew Togg would come on with a last minute, "I will post more at a later time" promise. It's not a huge deal we didn't lynch as it pushes D day back which the scum will not like. Now to have a look at everyone and see why people are keeping low, why we didn't get a lynch and anything else that comes to mind.

I can't help but ask how it is not a big deal for town considering we delay a lynch on a consensus suspicious character - whether that's you, or Monok, or Trake, or Togg, or whomever. Because unless we shift play style dramatically, we will just do the day 1 lynch day 2, and we're a full day behind on acting on our suspicions.

Again, pretty obvious points, just the usual lynch better than no lynch stuff. Seems like good to pick up.

But it's also worth noting in the context of what he goes next.

Hanas, on 23 October 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Argh. Between Grasp - Trake and now Fanderay - Ultama this is devolving rapidly in hissy-fit sniping. It should at the least be entertaining....
That being said, someone is coming apart.

[..]

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Scrap that, you voted for me, then disappeared until the next day. You left your vote and was not around to change or discuss things any further. Also look at your reason for vote.

Fanderay, on 22 October 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

Ultama, on 22 October 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

You are quite funny Trake. This is a very low TDMi game, why would someone signal in a low TDMi game? No one is dumb enough to signal. Voting Togg for nothing better than to lynch a non active player. My reason is posted right underneath my vote. You don't like the reason? Go suck a dick. It's my reason and I don't see a better option or didn't at the time.

just like no one's dumb enough to WIFOM on Day 1?

vote Ultama

catching up

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

So that is not the best reason, but you don't post after you catch up. Monok follows your vote and if Trake was smart and wanted a lynch he could have voted for me and the train could have really got underway.

Are you trying to invalidate another player's earlier vote solely based on their participation, when they point out a WIFOM straight from the book?
And you pick a top 4 and are 'sure' about it (but don't name them or say why), on day 2, a day without a lynch or train analysis? Ultama, you're getting off the rails with a little bit of pressure and some namecalling.
I don't hold your wrong recollection of whether or not Fanderay voted you against you as much as he does (although the fact that you accuse him without checking is worrying), but your play is sketchy and smells like panic, even more so since you don't fact check.

Basically, you opened the gates for a (100% speculative) case to be constructed about starting a train on a non-participant to seem active (because scum don't start trains, dontchaknow),only to then Silencer style NK the guy who votes you first.

Note, while he portrays it as a pissing contest, he's very definitely attacking Ultama, and defending Fanderay. Ultama's criticism of Fanderay claiming to be catching up and then disappearing is pretty valid really. It's a standard thing to pick up. Yet Hanas portrays it as "trying to invalidate another player's earlier vote solely based on their participation". Which really skips the specific point, in favour of a rather damning generalisation. Reading Hanas, you'd think Ultama had posted "fuck off, your post count is too low to have an opinion", as opposed to "you said you were catching up and then showed no sign of posting".

It is really noticeable how much Hanas mentions Fanderay. These are extracted from all his subsequent posts till now:

Hanas, on 23 October 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

I'd say only the current game counts, as the past is the past.
As for a reason... pff. Non-participation, mid-train switch, OM halting his lynch (I'm firmly with Fanderay on that topic). Pick your reason. Or have two at the price of one. .

Hanas, on 23 October 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Ultama, on 23 October 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

I can see what people are saying about Monok being a killer but I don't think symp has crossed their minds.

It crossed Fanderay's.
Your argument of MO not posting enough to be a symp is invalid. His window of posting opportunity does not dictate his role, nor does his role dictate his window of posting.

Hanas, on 23 October 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Depends on the PoV. See what Fanderay posts.

It's just something I picked up on when looking at all his posts. It just jumps out at you - Fanderay, Fanderay, Fanderay, Fanderay, every post you know? By the end I was thinking "get a room", but perhaps they have one already.

He mentions very few other players. When he does mention others, it's on things like Monok, or attacking Ultama. It didn't feel like he mentioned other people in the same way - looking at what they were saying about others etc, as opposed to just taking issue with their posts. Like primary vs. secondary sources as a comparison.

I mean, you're allowed to agree with people. It just struck me noteworthy that the only time I felt he's really got involved has been to strongly agree with Fanderay and to attack the person Fanderay was attacking (even though he saw it as a hissy-fit argument).

This is Trake's analysis of Hanas/thing that turned into a case on me

[Fanderay]

For those wondering why I'm being so helpful re; my own lynch:

I just got told the work deadline i though was for 2 Mondays from now got pushed to mid-next week. Meaning, I've got an urgent priority task now, and post-today (since today is Friday, no chance of getting super-srs) my posting time's gonna drop.

so I'm more cool with my own lynch, as long as it's informed, and people can actually make meaningful conclusions out of it.

[Ultama]

Fanderay, on 25 October 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

For those wondering why I'm being so helpful re; my own lynch:

I just got told the work deadline i though was for 2 Mondays from now got pushed to mid-next week. Meaning, I've got an urgent priority task now, and post-today (since today is Friday, no chance of getting super-srs) my posting time's gonna drop.

so I'm more cool with my own lynch, as long as it's informed, and people can actually make meaningful conclusions out of it.

you see no merit in lynching Grasp? Just wondering.

[Fanderay]

Ultama, on 25 October 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 25 October 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

For those wondering why I'm being so helpful re; my own lynch:

I just got told the work deadline i though was for 2 Mondays from now got pushed to mid-next week. Meaning, I've got an urgent priority task now, and post-today (since today is Friday, no chance of getting super-srs) my posting time's gonna drop.

so I'm more cool with my own lynch, as long as it's informed, and people can actually make meaningful conclusions out of it.

you see no merit in lynching Grasp? Just wondering.

I'd have to take another look at him myself. I'll do so in about half an hour.

Realistically, though, i don't see a new train before timeout. And we need a lynch.

[Lock]

I'm not trying to rubbish your case Ultama, it seems properly constructed, it just doesn't inspire me. And no, I have no better alternative. I am currently not even feeling the Fandy vote



Of course, I'm not really of much benefit today, work is dominating my attention

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 4 hours remaining.


9 players alive: Cast, Fanderay, Ghennan, Grasp, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Trake, Ultama

5 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

3 votes Fanderay: Ghennan, Grasp, Cast
1 vote Jalan: Hanas
1 vote Ghennan: Fanderay
1 vote Ultama: Jalan
1 vote Grasp: Ultama

Players not voted: Lock, Trake

[Fanderay]

all right, just got off the phone with one of our particularly needy clients, which took forever. will do a quick Gasp re-read

[Jalan]

I still don't feel that the Fanderay case has any salt and no one has brought up anything new since the initial case to sway me.

I could get behind a Grasp vote. I'm not really convinced the posting consistency means anything, but he does seem to be coasting a bit and there's connections there that can be expanded tomorrow.

My main preference is still Ultama for his multicasing and meltdown. He seems more reasonable now but that switch in behaviour back to calm is in some ways more suspicious. Scum would be more likely than town to feel the need to force themselves to go back to acting calm and to tone down their accusations. Claiming that the poor cases were fishing is a very weak excuse.

[Fanderay]

Done reading Day 1. Grasp has said fuck all of substance. Then he starts baiting Trake. Oddly enough, the ragetiger doesn't attack him back (much)

Aside from that, he makes some snappy comments, votes, Cast, then jumps onto me (no justification other than "get a lynch")

so ; shit all Day 1.
Day 2 he's being all chummy/playful angry with Trake, but I'm not holding that against him (yet), because they were on at the same time, with not many others around (and i'd be hypocritical of me, since the Me-Hanas connection is being made along parallel lines)

And he also votes a lot. He votes MO (not sure why), he votes Cast for coasting, and then he votes me, not because he feels its a strong case, but because "get a lynch", and "i'm voting because someone else won't be"

seriously, the more I think about it, the more that "replacement vote" line bugs me. It just reeks of "I'm so town I had the town's founding year tattooed on my privates. They don't get more town than me. Town, town town. TOWN RUL3Z!!!!", I-really-really-wanna-fit-in-look-at-me-I'm-fitting-in-soooo-nicely. I hate players like that.

remove vote

vote Grasp