[OberynM]

I m also looking for a lot of antihero type of thing..It gets to me everytime.I can hear Anomandaris Dragnipurake screaming in my ear everytime

[champ]

I got up to The Judging Eye, actually bought it too but found out I didn't actually want to read it anymore.

Bakker is not for me!

[McLovin]

Yeah, I'm in like some sort of dysfunctional abusive relationship with Bakker's books. They're anti-pleasure reads even for me, yet I find myself hanging in there to find out what happens next. I dunno, maybe on some unconscious level I'm identifying with the guy.

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 03 October 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

Also, QuickTidal, way to be a jerk inside two sentences for no reason.

I was blunt, that's for sure. But jerk might be stretching it. It's not the first time we've informed someone of other threads concerning their post, and there was no need to start a new one.

If my bluntness is seen as rude or jerky, my apologies to the OP. I thought I was just diplomatically direct.

But a lot of people here think I'm an asshole, so what the hell do I know?

[Grief]

OberynM, on 03 October 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Have not read anythinh by Mieville thou i keep a link for it in my browser..saw he wrote a great deal of great books..Which one you recommend as a first read?

I'd say Perdido Street Station is his strongest, followed by The Scar. Either of those would be a good start, opinion tends to vary much more on his others.

[Grief]

OberynM, on 03 October 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

I m also looking for a lot of antihero type of thing..It gets to me everytime.I can hear Anomandaris Dragnipurake screaming in my ear everytime

Stover's Caine books were already recommended, but they're good on this front. The Lies of Locke Lamora centres around a group of theives/scam-artists. They're not hugely anti-heroic, but it's another one consistently recommended by the forum and with good reason.

For Philip Dick, "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" is a classic. Not exactly an action novel as such, or there's a lot more going on at least - it's very fast reading though. Bladerunner is based on it.

[polishgenius]

Grief, on 03 October 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

They're not hugely anti-heroic,

Well if you're counting Anomander Rake as an anti-hero they are.


Other anti-heroic recs: Joe Abercrombie's stuff, Mark Lawrence's Broken Kingdoms.




On Mieville: I'd suggest starting with Perdido Street Station. It's not his best imo (The Scar is my favourite book ever), but you might as well. It does have its flaws however, and if you find yourself struggling with the plot-to-worldbuilding ratio (in places it become more of a tourist's guide to New Crobuzon than a novel), I recommend trying The Scar anyway, which is much better structured.

And his non-Bas-Lag books are entirely different again. There's almost no similarity between The City & The City and Perdido Street Station...

[Grief]

polishgenius, on 03 October 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

Grief, on 03 October 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

They're not hugely anti-heroic,

Well if you're counting Anomander Rake as an anti-hero they are.


Other anti-heroic recs: Joe Abercrombie's stuff, Mark Lawrence's Broken Kingdoms.




On Mieville: I'd suggest starting with Perdido Street Station. It's not his best imo (The Scar is my favourite book ever), but you might as well. It does have its flaws however, and if you find yourself struggling with the plot-to-worldbuilding ratio (in places it become more of a tourist's guide to New Crobuzon than a novel), I recommend trying The Scar anyway, which is much better structured.

And his non-Bas-Lag books are entirely different again. There's almost no similarity between The City & The City and Perdido Street Station...

Depends which book we're talking about with Rake, it varies at times. On the whole I'd agree he's not much of an anti hero though, particularly if we don't include GoTM. Not exactly a straight hero either though...but perhaps closer than a lot of the Malazan world.

As for plot-to-worldbuilding ratio being higher in PSS, I'd argue that this is a fair price for being in a much more vibrant world, with our impression of it constantly growing with new information.

Personally I think this is entirely deliberate, and it's a good way of giving an impression of the city as something alive in this overwhelming, insatiable and bloated fashion.

I would not say its narrative structure is as tight as The Scar but that's part of it's charm. It builds in layers that seem very tangential and superfluous at first, and then the narrative weave starts to draw tighter and tighter, gradually and inevitably.

Perdido Street Station is probably more of a struggle on your first read, but I'd say it's also more rewarding.

The Scar is excellent as well though, and it's not that far behind PSS for me. The fact that this debate recurs on the board - and is usually over which one just slightly edges the other - shows how good either would be as a starting point (and then read the other one after).

I would stick to starting with one of those two though.

[polishgenius]

I think the main reason for starting with PSS is that Bellis' need to get back to New Crobuzon drives the book and having read PSS first lets you know what she's missing. It's not necessary, but it does add something.


Also, technically The Scar spoils large parts of PSS, but you really have to have read both books to realise that. Similar to how two lines in PSS and half a sentence in The Scar between them give away a major part of the plotline in Iron Council...


For me, I didn't mind the amount of world in PSS at all - I loved getting lost in it. But I find quite a few people do and I have found PSS less fun to reread.

[OberynM]

Grief, on 03 October 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

OberynM, on 03 October 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Have not read anythinh by Mieville thou i keep a link for it in my browser..saw he wrote a great deal of great books..Which one you recommend as a first read?

I'd say Perdido Street Station is his strongest, followed by The Scar. Either of those would be a good start, opinion tends to vary much more on his others.

Thank you very much..im going to buy a new batch of books next week and Perdido will be among them ..After i read it i might come back with a few opinions if nobody here is a rager about posts and stuff

[OberynM]

Grief, on 03 October 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

OberynM, on 03 October 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

I m also looking for a lot of antihero type of thing..It gets to me everytime.I can hear Anomandaris Dragnipurake screaming in my ear everytime

Stover's Caine books were already recommended, but they're good on this front. The Lies of Locke Lamora centres around a group of theives/scam-artists. They're not hugely anti-heroic, but it's another one consistently recommended by the forum and with good reason.

For Philip Dick, "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" is a classic. Not exactly an action novel as such, or there's a lot more going on at least - it's very fast reading though. Bladerunner is based on it.

IDEM as the first answer..it will be BOUGHT:))
p.s thank you very much

[OberynM]

After all this talk about this Perdido and The Scar..i might go ape **** and go buy them tommorow..Never had any weak recommandations around here.I just hope i can find them at my English Book Store.Not too many around and they started to put up for sale a lot of awful books..If not buying online is an option altough more time is needed..So ...i'll jump right in