[cerveza_fiesta]

Has anybody else been playing this game? I just picked it up on the weekend after randomly finding out about it on Youtube.

https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/

https://www.youtube....d&v=dlbHmsHOe-U


The game is essentially sandbox-style "build-your-own spacefaring vessel, and launch it!", and it is absolutely the funnest thing since minecraft. It's currently in beta stage but is very playable. I'd compare it to minecraft Beta in its "completeness"...lots and lots of room for improvement but the core elements alone are compelling enough. There is currently only "sandbox mode" available, but the devs are working on a career mode that will include an economy of some sort so that you don't have a completely free hand at choosing components in the early stages. Kerbals (the populace of the planet in-game) have a 2-stat system that rates them on "stupidity" and "bravery". From what I can tell this has no influence whatsoever on the game, except that the brave stupid kerbals look happy during launch while smart cowardly ones look terrified (a nice touch). Presumably this will also have an influence later on as the game is padded out.

I haven't played much with the horizontal takeoff part, because the aerodynamic physics are a little weak right now. Sufficient for the game's purposes, but it's hardly a flight simulator. The REAL fun is in making rockets. So you start out in the rocket hangar with a blank slate. First thing you add is a command module that will house one or more of the cute little kerbals that you'll be piloting into space. Then add fuel tanks, solar panel arrays (retracted at this point), battery banks, recovery parachutes, landing struts, docking ports, RCS thrusters, RCS fuel, comm antennas, floodlights, and basically anything else you think you might need whilst on a mission outside Kerban's atmosphere. Next add a fuel tank and some liquid fuel rockets, maybe some solid fuel boosters for the initial stage (complete with de-couplers of course) and some structural struts to make sure the whole thing doesn't shake apart on liftoff. You'll also want to make sure that there is a decoupler at all the important junctions in the ship - no point carrying along a giant empty fuel tank and engine if it's not needed, right? All of this construction can be done in symmetry mode if desired, because damned if you want to launch and find out that your centre of thrust isn't aligned with the rocket's centre of mass!

The result will be a magnificient rocket, probably with way too little thrust and way too much mass on your first attempt - but with some tuning you'll figure out the right balance. Then you have to figure out how to get the damn thing into orbit, and that's where the genius of the game really sets in. It includes an almost complete gravitational model, and so you get real orbital dynamics. This makes for a very steep learning curve and you have to actually teach yourself how to launch a rocket into space as you go - and it's not that easy. Once you manage to gain a stable orbit (>40km altitude) then you can start planning out maneuvers that will get you into higher orbit, lower your orbit for reentry, add inclination to your orbit (e.g. to align your orbital plane with the planet), or even slingshot maneuvers to intersect you with other planetary bodies like the moon! On top of this, there is an aerodynamic model that, while insufficient to simulate real flight mechanics, is more than enough to simulate effect on a launching, reentry and aero-braking. You can land ships on the moon or other planets, do spacewalks, launch deep space probes, the whole bit. It's a 5 or 6 planet system and you can launch to any one of them, or any of their moons. Totally cool!

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So essentially, you start out with a blank slate, build your first rocket, put it in orbit and leave it there or effect a reentry if that's more your style. Next you'll need an international space station (of course) so you'll have to figure out how to launch that bastard into space...or if you're like me, launch it in small pieces and dock them in orbit. This is about as far as I've gotten.

Main thing I discovered right away is that no matter how much fuel you carry, you're going to burn the majority of it just getting into orbit. It's very difficult to sneak an extra full fuel tank up there without tapping into it a little, which steepens the learning curve a lot. Once your ship is up there, you'll have fuel enough to effect one major maneuver and then you're dead in the water - so don't miss! Also, don't forget to extend solar panels between maneuvers because once your electric charge dies, you can't do anything, including extending your solar panels!

Plans for next time I have a few hours to spare - unmanned lunar probe, to get practice for a manned landing mission! Fun!

[Satan]

Bought it a few months ago and had loads of fun with it. But I think I'll hold out on playing it again until it's closer to completion. Or at least until they've implemented the Tycoon-mode. I'm not much for goal-less sandbox mode (brilliant as this one is). Everything I build seem pointless. I want to build satellites, not only because I want to place a thing in orbital space around Kerbal, but because it somehow helps me further into space.

I also want to care about my Kerbals. I don't have count of how many of those little green things I've left to die in space. Or how many I've blown up. I've heard of people doing unmanned flights to practice before the commit one of their astronauts to a trip, but I just don't see the point. Once they implement some form of leveling or something for the Kerbals, keeping them sane and healthy will be much more interesting to bastards like me.

This post has been edited by Satan: 30 September 2013 - 06:54 PM

[cerveza_fiesta]

Yes, for sure. Those areas of the game need to be padded out before it's anywhere near what I'd call "complete". The core of the game is an amazing achievement thought. The engineer in me just loves all the maths that the devs must have worked out to have a fully functioning (most of the time) coupled gravitational, aerodynamic, structural model for the kerbal universe. I mean, that's the genius of the game for sure and it would be nothing if that aspect weren't so complex and compelling, but the tycoon mode and a reason to keep your kerbals alive would be nice touches.

I was randomly thinking about the game today and it struck me that it could really use a supply and consumption model of some sort for consumables other than fuel. Like food, water, entertainment, and all that stuff for your Kerbals on long-term missions. THen you'd have to give a lot more consideration to resupply.

I wonder if they'll have structures as part of the tycoon mode too. Like you start out with a launchpad and limited space hangar and you upgrade the facilities as you gain cash for doing missions.

Probably all these things are planned anyway. At any rate, it was well worth the $20 discounted-rate beta cost.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Really....Satan of the dolphin-boob lady avatar is the only one playing this game????

Dang. If nobody else has tried it out then I highly, highly recommend it - if only to have some fun and support the development in Beta and get free updates for life (like anyone who bought Minecraft in Beta).

[Messremb]

cerveza_fiesta, on 01 October 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

Really....Satan of the dolphin-boob lady avatar is the only one playing this game????

Dang. If nobody else has tried it out then I highly, highly recommend it - if only to have some fun and support the development in Beta and get free updates for life (like anyone who bought Minecraft in Beta).

Heh, not just Satan.

Most of my constructions so far have been aimed at getting the most hugest rockets imaginable into orbit - the sort of rocket where you have as many braces and struts as all other components combined and a sequence of ejections that starts dumping empty fuel tanks when you're barely off the launch pad, with all the acceleration of a slug.

There is of course a few times I've forgotten to tell the supports to detach and sat there wondering why it was blasting at full power and not shifting - impossible to eject stages as uncoupled they tear up, ripping apart the rest of the rocket in the process.

Overheating is a big issue for me on occasion, might be my habit of independent boosters clustered round a central engine turning it into toast, strangely the fuel tanks don't mind being surrounded by a halo of flames, just the engines.

Orbit is something I tend to aim past too - I'm happy so long as I'm sending a kerbal into the unknown depths of intersolar space, the finer points of actually aiming them at something I'm leaving to them for now.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Yay, more than just one other fan.

I'm a big fan of mastering the orbital manoeuvres. Overheat has become a bit of an issue in my highest mass launches (like the hub piece of my ISS) I find it's easier to build an elaborate array of solid fuel boosters centred around a smaller array of large fuel tanks fitted with Mainsail engines. That way I'm not using the liquid fuel until I'm well outside the densest part of the atmosphere and up where gravity isn't such a hindrance. At that altitude (10,000m + ) you can afford to run liquid fuel engines at 3/4 throttle to avoid overheat and not undershoot orbital velocity.

I also discovered efficient launches are done by constantly steering as you gain altitude. Keep the thrust vector 5-10 degrees closer to the horizon than your prograde vector at all times until you hit orbital altitude at 40,000m. Then turn just a few degrees up from the horizon (regardless of actual prograde) and start "chasing the apoptosis". If you're getting close to it (within 30 seconds) do a burn to raise both the apoptosis and extend the arc. Let off the gas as the apoptosis gets more than T-1min from your ship and coast to T-30sec again. Alternately just run the engine at low throttle to keep the apoptosis at a constant distance.


The result is that you're not burning near as much fuel to raise the periapsis up out of the planet's atmosphere, since thrust for raising the periapsis is most efficiently done at the apoptosis.


I have yet to figure out how to efficiently de-orbit from Kerban and enter orbit with the mun. I assume just raise the apoptosis until it intersects the mun's orbit, and then another maneuver to close into a tight orbit around mun. My first attempts all ran out of fuel before I even hit my de-orbit target and I ended up with unmanned probes reaching exit velocity, so efficiency is obviously key.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Holy shit docking in orbit is HARD. I have yet to master it but have successfully done it 2x now. I never really gave much thought to docking things in orbit before - it is not a simple task.

You have to start out with the target in the right orbital position, a ways ahead of you. Then move up into low orbit so that you're always moving a little faster than the target. Then do a burn to correct inclination of your orbit relative to the target's. Then find a spot to burn prograde until your apoptosis reaches exactly the orbit of the target and get the nearest meeting of you and the target as near to the apoptosis as possible. Then travel to the apoptosis and do another prograde to circularize with the target's orbit as precisely as possible. Then do a succession of short alternating pro/retrograde burns to close with the target. THEN AND ONLY THEN can you get out the maneuvering thrusters and close the final few hundred metres, and try to click the docking rings together without smashing any parts off either vessel.

And the whole time your orbit is shifting slightly relative to the target, so not only are you fighting to close the distance without crashing, you're fighting to ensure your orbits don't diverge because of an over-acceleration.

Kudos to the guys that actually do this for a living in orbit around earth. My god that would be a scary experience - flying a 24 metric tonne space shuttle filled with people at a 450 metric tonne space station filled with people, and somehow clicking the docking rings together without damaging anything. It is nerve-wracking enough when all that hangs in the balance are the lives of 2 Kerbals!!!

I could not possibly imagine possessing the balls required to dock two real spacecraft in orbit.

[Satan]

If there's one thing that game teaches us, it's that not everyone can become an astronaut.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Beta of KSP is out.

Been playing it after having dropped it sometime after alpha 0.23

The career mode (complete with ingame economy, science, reputation, kerbal experience and missions) is now working and is really quite a bit of fun. The contracts all contain a pretty significant amount of fine print and specific completion conditions that force you to consider cost v. benefit of accepting the contract. You still have science-only and sandbox modes to choose from too, but the career mode is much more interesting IMO

Mk3 shuttle components are fully fleshed-out now (which means space shuttles are possible) as well as shuttle bay doors (for launching satelites). The whole game is muuuuuch less buggy too. Not perfect but getting pretty close. If you already bought the game I'd definitely recommend trying the full career mode.

[Tiste Simeon]

Elon Musk (of SpaceX) did an AMA today and he claims to play my this. I mean the dude is literally doing it in real life but he likes it. That has inspired me to get it myself!
edit: AMA not AXA

This post has been edited by Tiste Simeon: 07 January 2015 - 05:28 AM

[cerveza_fiesta]

The cool thing about KSP is how utterly geeky it is. I mean the vanilla game already is dorky as hell, but the mod content takes it to new levels.

One really popular mod called Ferram Aerospace Research adds a full aerodynamic model to the game so that planes and rockets behave like real life when in the atmosphere. It makes the game unbelievably difficult because you need to consider stability of any space/air craft before you launch it or else kablooie!

vanilla game is more than hard enough to keep you occupied at the start though. Figuring out how to dock in orbit and how to put a lander on the mun are frustrating but very rewarding somehow once you figure them out

[Messremb]

Career mode? Finally, better get back into it. Now I have a reason not to build mega-monster rockets that have boosters composed of discrete rockets, making every launch a chaos of ejected stages tearing off or more often an inferno

[cerveza_fiesta]

Yep, fully functioning career mode. Don't be shy to look up how to complete some quests. It is not always immediately obvious how to fulfill 100% of the contract objectives. I got stuck more than once, but you get used to the system before long