[cerveza_fiesta]

This whole shamozzle paints Canada in such a bad light elsewhere in the world. We talked about it when I was visiting relatives down in Baltimore because it is making international news (even in the US where they don't give a shit about Canada as a rule!). My relatives are educated replublican-voting conservative types (though not the crazy tea party types) and even they were like "WTF, how the hell do they get away with such obviously racist anti-minority crap??".

The problem is that elsewhere, folks don't necessarily see it as a provincial government within Canada doing something nutty. It's happening within our borders and they therefore think it's *Canada* banning religious headwear. I don't live in Quebec and have nothing to do with this issue, I don't vote for any of the politicians involved, I share the opinions here that the bill is idiotic, anti-minority and intentionally controversial. It bothers me to no end that people in other parts of the world might form an opinion or prejudge me as a Canadian for something like this.

But then again, that's probably what the Marois Gov't wants. Not only to sow the seeds of separatism within Quebec, but to foster feelings of "we don't want them anyway!" within the rest of Canada.

The bill is a horribly misguided and twisted way to accomplish their goals in my opinion. I am so glad that folks in Quebec realized it right away and the entire thing is blowing up in Marois' face.

[Obdigore]

Kanubis, on 22 September 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

'Required' is a slightly interesting one though isn't it? My understanding is that the hijab isn't commanded by scripture (either the Quran or other texts.) There are some general commands in the Quran regarding modesty in genera. although, for instance, covering the hair is never mentioned explicitly.

This doesn't counter the fact that it is a strong cultural feature, of course, but in that respect I don't find much to differentiate between crosses and hijabs - there's no scripture commanding them anywhere but they're obviously very important to the individual and culture.

The turban is a different matter - Sikhism is very strong on their Articles of Faith and the carrying/wearing of them is a scriptural command.

The problem is your interpretation of the religious texts. Some people feel that a hijab or burkah is required, others feel that modesty can be achieved with more secular clothes.

If, to take another example from this thread, both Christians and Jews are supposed to obey the secular laws so long as they don't interfere with spiritual laws. How far does this go? A speed limit is a secular law, do the very strict religious never violate it, while those with a more relaxed viewpoint are ok with going over it and still believing they are 'good' religious members?

Meanwhile, to answer Abyss, that is the same way the US is, generally. The cities are secular and pretty liberal, and the rural areas are steeped in hatred of everything and everything that isn't just like them.

[LinearPhilosopher]

PQ being racist? No! Never in a millions years!

[Abyss]

cerveza_fiesta, on 23 September 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

... probably what the Marois Gov't wants. Not only to sow the seeds of separatism within Quebec, but to foster feelings of "we don't want them anyway!" within the rest of Canada.

Yep. She tried the same thing with the soccer regs, that didn't work so she went bigger. if she can point at the rest of Canada and scream oppression, it's a win. This is i imagine why the Fed Gov is mostly staying clear beyond replying to press questions.

Quote

.... I am so glad that folks in Quebec realized it right away and the entire thing is blowing up in Marois' face.

Opinion is still split up the middle and only shifting slightly side to side. More or less half of QC still think this is the bestest idea since Labatt.

Obdigore, on 24 September 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

..., to answer Abyss, that is the same way the US is, generally. The cities are secular and pretty liberal, and the rural areas are steeped in hatred of everything and everything that isn't just like them.

Yep, and likely well beyond NorAm for that matter.
But i'd like to think that civilized people living in a developed country have enough brains to recognize intolerance when they see it... but nooooo....

[Darkwatch]

Marois has proven to be effective at choosing an emotionally charged subject to keep people from talking about the actual issue: That this is a blatant cynical manipulation of rural populations for a vote grab. I don't understand why rural Quebecers (even if they agree with the "principle" of the Charter) aren't insulted beyond measure at being targeted by this. It is so transparent, contradicting and hypocritical that I can't fathom how anyone could believe that this was done with even 10% motivation towards functional State secularism.
As I said up thread it is a standard U.S. political strategy that has been heavily covered by the media of all stripes (except maybe TVA) that it should be impossible to ignore.
I suppose that there are some rural Qubecers that are against this but with first past the post it won't really matter. Hope the CAQ and the Libs decide to stand up and topple Marois if this ever gets to the vote. At least put up a fight even if it means possibly losing an election.

The good news is that recent polls show that Québec city would vote mostly against the Charter (I think 48% against, 15% abstain and 37% for something like that). The only thing is Québec city is highly polarized and the racists who live there are bold enough to attack people in shopping malls.

[Gnaw]

cerveza_fiesta, on 23 September 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

(even in the US where they don't give a shit about Canada as a rule!).

Excuse me? The rules say we have to not give a shit about France, Australia, and Malaysia. We don't give a shit about Canada as a rule only under the 11 player variant. Otherwise, not giving a shit about Canada is just an errata entry.