[Black Winged Lord]

Just on a reread of Blood and Bone at the moment and came across a potential hint at what may lie behind the vow made by K'azz and co.

At the point where Shimmer is recalling the actual vow itself, there's a reference to a bystander. My thinking is that this could possibly be Olar Ethil.
The description is pretty vague, just that it was definitely a woman broad, solid, dark skinned with black hair. Not sure if that suits OE completely, but is she was an azathanai that wouldn't matter too much. But anyway, Shimmer thinks she is just a displaced tribal, which would also suit her Imass appearance.

It would make sense if the location K'azz chose to make his vow was in someway linked with the original Tellan Ritual, and as such O.E's involvement may have given her an inkling that something was taking place.
Enough to poke her nose in anyway. Or perhaps she could have been more involved as I always got the feeling through this book that K'azz probably had a better idea of what he was getting them in for than you would imagine, especially with the way he maneuvered Skinner.

The only possible motivations I can think of for O.E to be involved, would be the potential to use the CGrd later on. She could well have seen the potential for her T'lan to be suborned completely (as in silverfox), especially after their involvement with the Kellenved at that point, and not sure how it would fit the timeline, but also the First Sword drama with Onos/ Dassem.

It would be pretty interesting if the creation of the Crimson Guard avowed was simply a play be Olar Ethil, possibly looking forward to her gambit at the Crippled God.

[nacht]

Somewhere in the forum, it was mentioned that this person might be Kilava.

[Black Winged Lord]

nacht, on 11 September 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

Somewhere in the forum, it was mentioned that this person might be Kilava.

Yeah can see that being a possibility. Would match the description a bit better than OE. And I suppose it wouldn't be out of character for her to be hanging around the location of a Tellan Ritual, particularly if it was the site of the original ritual - I guess that would have been her home before it all went to shit.

I think I'd just like to see some hidden meaning there to justify some of K'azz's behavior since escaping the dolmens. I guess he's slowly coming to terms with the whatever the repercussions of the vow are, but there seems to be more to it than that.

This post has been edited by Black Winged Lord: 19 September 2013 - 02:09 AM

[Kanese S's]

I thought it was obvious that the Crimson Guard are basically becoming like the T'lan Imass. It's happening slowly, though I guess they don't get a fire warren out of it. Unless maybe Tellann developed more slowly than I thought.

[Abyss]

I floated the Kilava theory, tho i doubt i was the only one. Olar is another interesting possibility.

The notion that the Vow itself is doing something to Kazz is interesting because it suggests a level of sentience or purpose, which is something we've never seen associated with the T'lan Imass ritual.

There are some other major differences aside from the obvious undead vs supersoldier elements, notably that Imass souls just sit around and eventually fade while Guard souls become Brethren.

Arguably the Vow is a much improved version of the Tlan Ritual.

Now Olar participated in the Ritual while Kilava massacred her own family to avoid it, so they both have reasons for being there.

With Olar now apparently dead post TCG and Kilava hanging out with the living Imass who fled the Refugium, it will be interesting to see whether ICE pulls either of them into the Guard side of ASSAIL.

[worry]

It was Mogora, scouting boyfriends for Ardata.

[Kanese S's]

Matchmaker matchmaker, make me a match.

[worry]

Yes. Mogora also nearby in Raraku when Fiddler gets his nickname. It all comes around doesn't it?

[Tiste Simeon]

The site of the original Tellan ritual was on the Lether subcontinent (the magically dead place Redmask & the Awl first defeat the Lether armies in RG) which, at the time of the Vow, nobody knew existed. So the vow can't have taken place at the same point as the Ritual (I think in that flashback it was suggested it happened somewhere in Quon Tali...)
Both Kilava & OE would have a decent enough reason for being there.

Edit: sorry for the thread resurrection, am browsing this forum to read theories as I read the book...

This post has been edited by Tiste Brent Not Abyss Weeks Simeon: 20 February 2014 - 12:03 AM

[nacht]

Tiste Brent Not Abyss Weeks Simeon, on 20 February 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

The site of the original Tellan ritual was on the Lether subcontinent (the magically dead place Redmask & the Awl first defeat the Lether armies in RG) which, at the time of the Vow, nobody knew existed. So the vow can't have taken place at the same point as the Ritual (I think in that flashback it was suggested it happened somewhere in Quon Tali...)
Both Kilava & OE would have a decent enough reason for being there.

Edit: sorry for the thread resurrection, am browsing this forum to read theories as I read the book...

In DoD or TCG, it was indicated that the tellan ritual was done at least at two separate times (possibly indicating multiple locations for the ritual)

[Tiste Simeon]

Ah haven't got there in my reread yet & it's been a while since I read it first time around...

[D'rek]

From the various recollections of the T'lan Imass, the first Ritual was done in several places - the Logros in Seven Cities right after four Tyrants made an alliance to crush their rebel Imass, in Genebackis in the midst of the Imass war against Raest, and in Lether at Bast Fulmar. We don't know how exactly, but it seems the first Ritual was a worldwide event coordinated between many Imass tribes all across the world. My pet theory is that each of the T'lan Imass "armies" were formed by the Imass from a particular continent or major region, with the leaders of each of those armies having had a major part in the Ritual.

ie something like:

Logros - Quon Tali/eastern 7C
Kron - Genebackis
Bentract - Lether
Kerluhm - Assail
Orshayn - West and central 7C
Ifayle - Korel and Jacuruku


Whether the rituals for each of the tribes that became these armies happened at exactly the same time or not, it nevertheless seems like these all happened at a relatively close time and are all considered part of the (first) Ritual of Tellan. Then the Brold ritual happened quite some time later, hence it being referred to as the Second Ritual, even when there were T'lan Imass from the Logros, Orshayn and Brold all present together.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 20 February 2014 - 03:09 PM