[Elzhi]

I should have marked the page. But where SE described the Empty Hold, I think it's when Feather Witch does the first casting, he mentioned a "Walker, who patrolled borders not even he could see."

Continuing with that logic, if it were indeed Edgewalker, that would make him an ascendent, not an Elder God, correct? Or, "Elder Ascendent" if you want to be specific. Which, still going that way, would put him on the same tier with Lady Envy (who is a powerful, scary, scary woman) and the like.

Thus the mystery is solved. Until a better explanation comes up.

[D'rek]

IMO, God is not a promotion or even necessarily mutually exclusive from Ascendant.

Assuming he's an Ascendant (seems pretty obvious he is):

If he's Elder and had worshippers in the "Elder times", he's an Elder Ascendant and also an Elder God.

If he's Elder but did not/does not has/have worshippers, he's not an Elder Ascendant but not Elder God.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 06 September 2013 - 10:10 PM

[nacht]

I think you are referring to this casting by Feather Witch.

It is interesting viewpoint though I am not sure we can conclude anything definite yet.

Quote

First would come the three Fulcra known as the Realm Forgers. Fire, the silent scream of light, the very swirl of the stars themselves. Then Dolmen, bleak and rootless, drifting aimless in the void. And into the path of these two forces, the Errant. Bearer of its own unknowable laws, it would draw Fire and Dolmen into fierce wars. Vast fields of destructions, instance upon instance of mutual annihilation. But occasionally, rarely, there would be peace made between the two contestants. And Fire would bathe but not burn, and Dolmen would surrender its wandering ways, and so find root.

The Errant would then weave its mysterious skein, forging the Holds themselves. Ice. Eleint. Azath. Beast. And into their midst would emerge the remaining Fulcra. Axe, Knuckles, Blade, the Pack, Shapefinder and White Crow.

Then, as the realms took shape, the spiralling light would grow sharper, and the final Hold would be revealed. The Hold that had existed, unseen, at the very beginning. The Empty Hold—heart of Letherii worship—that was at the very centre of the vast spiral of realms. Home to the Throne that that knew no King, home to the Wanderer Knight, and to the Mistress who waited still, alone in her bed of dreams. To the Watcher, who witnessed all, and the Walker, who patrolled borders not even he could see. To the Saviour, whose outstretched hand was never grasped. And, finally, to the Betrayer, whose loving embrace destroyed all it touched.

According to this there are holds, fulcra (independent players) and at the center is the empty hold.
and the empty hold is home to.

Throne that that knew no King (The hold is suspiciously similar to Shadow in this respect but wait Shadow has had many kings. So maybe not)
Wanderer Knight - (Sounds like Icarium)
Mistress who waited still, alone in her bed of dreams. (sounds like Queen of Dreams)
Watcher, who witnessed all
Walker, who patrolled borders not even he could see (Edgewalker?)
Saviour, whose outstretched hand was never grasped
Betrayer, whose loving embrace destroyed all it touched. (maybe Scabandari, maybe the Errant)

Damned readings are always confusing.

[nacht]

This is a reading by Quru Kan

Quote

The tile of the Fulcra, the Dolmen. Do you see? A figure huddled at its base. Bound to the menhir with chains. All obscured by smoke, a smoke that numbs my mind. The Dolmen has been usurped.'

Quote

'And the Azath Hold, this troubles me greatly. The centre tile, the Heartstone, can you sense it? The Azath Heartstone, my friend, has died. The other tiles clustered together around it, at the end, drawing tight as blood gathers in a wounded body. The Tomb is breached. Portal stands unguarded. You must make a journey for me to the square tower, Finadd. And go armed.'

Quote

Dragon Hold has awakened. Wyval. Blood-Drinker. Gate. Consort. Among the Fulcra, the Errant is now positioned in the centre of things. The Pack draws nearer, and Shapefinder has become a chimera.

Ice Hold's Huntress walks frozen paths. Child and Seed stir to life.

Child and Seed stir to life.

The Empty Hold—you can well see—has become obscured. Every tile. A shadow stands behind the Empty Throne. And look, Saviour and Betrayer, they have coalesced. They are one and the same. How is this possible? Wanderer, Mistress, Watcher and Walker, all hidden, blurred by mysterious motion. I am frightened, Finadd.'

I think Dolmen is the Ruse hold. And it has been usurped by Hannan Mosag.

The holds and fulcra are listed in the end.
Beast Hold
Azath Hold
Dragon Hold
Ice Hold
Empty Hold
Fulcra
- shapefinder
- the pack (Jheck?)
- Errant
- Axe (Eres)
- Crow (Silchas)
- Fire
- Dolmen
- Blade
- Kuckles



Overall it is interesting that Edgewalker might belong to the Empty Hold. This means that he had some influence in Letharas and maybe even that Shadow is somehow related to the Empty hold.

This post has been edited by nacht: 06 September 2013 - 10:45 PM

[Maester]

Dolmen sounded suspiciously like Darkness to me. The line, about "wandering, then finding root," reminded me of the conversation in MoI where Paran talks about Darkness wandering until the hold takes shape. Adding to that, the "Fire, the silent scream of Light," Fire sounds like Light to me. Meaning, the creation story sounds a lot like the one we've been used to, just with a little twist, which makes sense if you take into account the isolation Lether has in comparison to Genebackis.

[nacht]

There is an interesting quote in Midnight Tides

Quote

She watched him working, wondering how often he had done this. How many glades like this one, how many mornings the first to rise among snoring soldiers. So far from anything resembling home. In a way, she understood him in that regard. There were two manifestations in the Empty Hold that spoke to that nature. Walker and Wanderer, the distinction between them a subtle one of motivation.

The Wanderer is probably Icarium who was a big player in Letheras

[Elzhi]

Great posts.. lots of stuff to think about.

On that last comment. The Wanderer being possibly Icarium...

And this is pure conjecture, but what are the chances of Edgewalker being related to Icarium? Not like, brothers, but philosophically, I guess would be the word I'm looking for. Probably not the word I'm looking for.

Going with the last statement "...the distinction between them a subtle one of motivation"... and also on the assumption the Wanderer = Icarium and Walker = Edgewalker...

Considering the two characters, I don't think it would be out of the question. But like I said, I'm just thinking out loud here. The possibilities in this series are endless.