[Aptorian]

I've been on a Breaking Bad binge the past week or so. I've heard that it is supposedly "the best series on Television" in America.

While I thought it started out interestingly enough, a desperate man, trying to make some money before he dies, it is now beginning to become more and more stupid. The plot is beginning to unravel as they make out the characters to be more dumb and greedy than they need to be. That, coupled with my pet peeve, story lines being based on lies and omissions made for no other reason than to prolong the story is really getting old.

One character is a selfish asshole who is quickly running out redeemable qualities. The other is dumber than a sack of bricks and I don't understand how he manages to get dressed every day. There is no communication or exchanges of intelligence. Only stupid plans and half-ass'd attempts at plugging the holes in a leaking boat.

So, my question is this. Does it get better? Are they just going to keep fucking things up for themselves season after season or do they actually get wiser?

EDIT: Let me clarify, it is my understanding that things only get worse and worse as the series progresses. I expect that but when things go bad I would be prefer that it is life stepping on their throats and not just them getting fucked because of their own incompetence.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 22 August 2013 - 06:46 PM

[Vengeance]

Aptorius, on 22 August 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

I've been on a Breaking Bad binge the past week or so. I've heard that it is supposedly "the best series on Television" in America.

While I thought it started out interestingly enough, a desperate man, trying to make some money before he dies, it is now beginning to become more and more stupid. The plot is beginning to unravel as they make out the characters to be more dumb and greedy than they need to be. That, coupled with my pet peeve, story lines being based on lies and omissions made for no other reason than to prolong the story is really getting old.

One character is a selfish asshole who is quickly running out redeemable qualities. The other is dumber than a sack of bricks and I don't understand how he manages to get dressed every day. There is no communication or exchanges of intelligence. Only stupid plans and half-ass'd attempts at plugging the holes in a leaking boat.

So, my question is this. Does it get better? Are they just going to keep fucking things up for themselves season after season or do they actually get wiser?

Breaking bad is the story of an ordinary guy who over the course of 5 seasons becomes basically scarface. They do some smart things and some stupid things. But there are always going to be holes to be filled. It isn't like they work with the most brilliant minds. The work with retarded criminals in the meth business. There are always holes to be plugged.

[Aptorian]

Let me give you an example:

Spoiler

Possibly the stupidest person I have ever seen on TV, Badger. WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU HIRE THIS HUMAN DONKEY TO SLING METH!?! WHY OH GOD WHY!

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 22 August 2013 - 06:55 PM

[Abyss]

Aptorius, on 22 August 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

Let me give you an example:

Spoiler

Possibly the stupidest person I have ever seen on TV, Badger. WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU HIRE THIS HUMAN DONKEY TO SLING METH!?! WHY OH GOD WHY!

Because

Spoiler

he's Jesse's friend and Jesse wants his friend involved.

It's those sort of very human decisions, including the rock bottom stupid ones, that are imnsho, a high point of the show, because unlike sitcom reasoning where it's all just a big misunderstanding, it makes perfect sense that these very flawed characters would make these decisions.

[Fafnir]

It is very hard to get college grads to sling meth on street corners for you. The only reason Walt needs Jessie is because he has no idea how to sell the meth he is cooking.

[Aptorian]

Spoiler

Awesome. A dirty lawyer just got involved in their business. FINALLY A PRO. Things can only get better from here on in... well, until the Mexican cartels show up and saw their legs off of course.

[Aptorian]

Abyss, on 22 August 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

It's those sort of very human decisions, including the rock bottom stupid ones, that are imnsho, a high point of the show, because unlike sitcom reasoning where it's all just a big misunderstanding, it makes perfect sense that these very flawed characters would make these decisions.

Fafnir, on 22 August 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

It is very hard to get college grads to sling meth on street corners for you. The only reason Walt needs Jessie is because he has no idea how to sell the meth he is cooking.

I agree with the assessment of Jessie's completely ineptitude at anything he does but for the life of me I do not understand why Walter isn't doing better planning. I get that he doesn't want to get involved in that side of the business but for fucks sake.

I mean, with my only reference being bad crime drama's I know you don't just fucking sit down on a bench and hand drugs over to who ever comes by. It's just sloppy.

[Fafnir]

Just keep watching. Walt and Jessie won't sling on corners forever. Shit gets real:)

[End of Disc One]

Most people tend to think the show gets better as it goes. I would say that the "stupid" gradually goes away as the show becomes more serious.

I remember rewatching the show and being surprised at how funny it was early on.

[Defiance]

Obviously, the characters will get more suited for the meth dealing business as time goes on. Walt has zero experience with this sort of stuff, and Jesse was very small time. He smoked most of his product and sold a small amount on the side. As a result, their incompetence isn't all that surprising.

These characters have flaws. Of course, Walt doesn't need to have so much pride, but that's who he is. You'll understand more about who he actually is as a person as the show goes on. It's impossible to say more without spoiling anything, but in my opinion the writers have never made a real misstep on the show. Most shows start off great than slowly lose traction, whereas Breaking Bad started off pretty good and has soared to incredible heights.

Keep watching. If you don't end up loving it, you have very strange tastes in media.

[Aptorian]

Yeah, I guess I am still waiting to understand why Walter White is an elementary school teacher.

Spoiler

I currently know that there is some kind of bad blood between Walter and his former partner and wife. Something in the lines of him and her having been in love or something and the other guy doesn't know.

But that's the reason why he doesn't work with them. Why doesn't he work for somebody else? He has the reputation and skill. Why isn't he working for some other corporation?

If there is some reason why he doesn't or can't work in the industry why hasn't a chemist as good as he is made his own business? There has to be a product that he could make, as pure and refined as chrystal meth, that an industry or an independent business could use. Hell from the way he is spoken off, you would think he'd "just" spend his day making patents and living off those.

[Agraba]

Aptorius, on 22 August 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

Yeah, I guess I am still waiting to understand why Walter White is an elementary school teacher.

Spoiler

I currently know that there is some kind of bad blood between Walter and his former partner and wife. Something in the lines of him and her having been in love or something and the other guy doesn't know.

But that's the reason why he doesn't work with them. Why doesn't he work for somebody else? He has the reputation and skill. Why isn't he working for some other corporation?

If there is some reason why he doesn't or can't work in the industry why hasn't a chemist as good as he is made his own business? There has to be a product that he could make, as pure and refined as chrystal meth, that an industry or an independent business could use. Hell from the way he is spoken off, you would think he'd "just" spend his day making patents and living off those.

It's not easy going into the industry with just a Masters. Every scientific research firm or university demands a PhD if you want to do high end research. Also starting a business involves a lot of knowledge of the market and its niches; just because Walter is a chemistry genius, that doesn't mean he has the know-how in that department. It's very common for people with highly qualified academic backgrounds to work in low end jobs.

I would say that most of the mistakes that Walter and Jesse made are understandable considering their position. The problem with a lot of television nowadays, IMO, is that the writers don't take into account the biases people have of being in the situation itself, while trying to make rational decisions. Also, it's easy to watch Breaking Bad and say "they shouldn't have done that" after everything goes to shit, but can you think of a solid example of something you saw ahead of time that was a really bad idea? Hindsight is 20/20, especially for us viewers.

BB just has more honest writing than most shows IMO. People are in an industry where the logical course of action is extremely murky, ethics is a huge roadblock, and they are extremely emotionally invested. I feel like not a lot of shows can properly take all those things into account when writing characters.

BTW if you want to watch the best show on American television, go watch The Wire. But I'd say Breaking Bad is up there. Still, if you don't like it up to the point you're at, I can't say you will start liking it later. The situation may get very different, as others are saying, but the style remains consistent.

This post has been edited by Agraba: 22 August 2013 - 11:14 PM

[Jakovasaurus]

I haven't read all the posts to this thread (not enough time), but I think I can help out your frustration with the show. Breaking Bad may not translate well to a British / European audience and the sensibilities of that audience. If you have an understanding of the desert south west in the United States and the meth epidemic that affects many communities in those areas, the show's tone, characters and cinematography is spot on. It is, in short, one of the best shows now and ever. I'm not the only one that holds that opinion.

Stick with it, it is good, and will get gooder (is that a word?).

[Warming]

Keep Watching. I was in the same boat as you. The show started off interesting and then it gets lame, but then it gets REALLY REALLY GOOD.

Season 1: Decent start but some really slow parts.
Season 2: Where is this show going? Pretty bored.
Season 3: I see where this is going, this is going to be good.
Season 4: And Im hooked, AMAZING!!
Season 5: Still Amazing
Season 6: So far really really really good

[Aptorian]

Agraba, on 22 August 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

Aptorius, on 22 August 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

Yeah, I guess I am still waiting to understand why Walter White is an elementary school teacher.

Spoiler

I currently know that there is some kind of bad blood between Walter and his former partner and wife. Something in the lines of him and her having been in love or something and the other guy doesn't know.

But that's the reason why he doesn't work with them. Why doesn't he work for somebody else? He has the reputation and skill. Why isn't he working for some other corporation?

If there is some reason why he doesn't or can't work in the industry why hasn't a chemist as good as he is made his own business? There has to be a product that he could make, as pure and refined as chrystal meth, that an industry or an independent business could use. Hell from the way he is spoken off, you would think he'd "just" spend his day making patents and living off those.

It's not easy going into the industry with just a Masters. Every scientific research firm or university demands a PhD if you want to do high end research. Also starting a business involves a lot of knowledge of the market and its niches; just because Walter is a chemistry genius, that doesn't mean he has the know-how in that department. It's very common for people with highly qualified academic backgrounds to work in low end jobs.

I would say that most of the mistakes that Walter and Jesse made are understandable considering their position. The problem with a lot of television nowadays, IMO, is that the writers don't take into account the biases people have of being in the situation itself, while trying to make rational decisions. Also, it's easy to watch Breaking Bad and say "they shouldn't have done that" after everything goes to shit, but can you think of a solid example of something you saw ahead of time that was a really bad idea? Hindsight is 20/20, especially for us viewers.

BB just has more honest writing than most shows IMO. People are in an industry where the logical course of action is extremely murky, ethics is a huge roadblock, and they are extremely emotionally invested. I feel like not a lot of shows can properly take all those things into account when writing characters.

BTW if you want to watch the best show on American television, go watch The Wire. But I'd say Breaking Bad is up there. Still, if you don't like it up to the point you're at, I can't say you will start liking it later. The situation may get very different, as others are saying, but the style remains consistent.

He doesn't have any more than a Masters degree? From the way he's spoken off I assumed he AT LEAST had a Phd. I think I saw a Nobel prize hanging on a wall some where. If you have your name on a diploma from Nobel I suspect that you can at least get some kind of flunky position in a lab. If nothing else they'd hire you just to be able to drop your prize or nomination during sales pitches.

And it's not so much "they shouldn't have done that" as it's just plain bad lies. Right from the start, when Walter is disappearing for hours every day, week after week, he should have done something. If he wants to keep on lying he needs to make it a true lie. He should have stated that he is too proud to get that money and he's finding something else. Make up a fake job. Tell his wife that he's freelancing or something like that and they've even given him his own place to work out off. THERE now he has an excuse to go missing, he's trying to make enough money to save their lives. After that, in season two, when it's obvious he's no longer able to stop himself, he should have out right made the lie a truth. Contact a lawyer and a financial advisor. Set up a business he can put on his tax return, use this business to order the supplies he needs, make up dummy corporations that can buy what he makes, funnel the drug money through this. Or what ever, I am not an expert in money laundering but I know enough to say that what he's been doing is unrealistic and lacks intelligent planning.

[QuickTidal]

The show is basically the idea of taking a hero (or at least if not a hero, an altruistic, and good individual with honorable intentions) and turning him not only into a bad guy, but an irredeemable supervillain.

It's an inexorable descent.

And yeah, one of the highlights of the show is how stupid some of the characters can be and how they don't make the smart TV choice....but rather the dumb human one. And therein lies the goods.

It took me a while to get into it, but yeah, past season 1 I was hooked.

[Abyss]

Aptorius, on 22 August 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

Spoiler

Awesome. A dirty lawyer just got involved in their business. FINALLY A PRO. Things can only get better from here on in... well, until the Mexican cartels show up and saw their legs off of course.

Spoiler

BETTER CALL SAUL!

He's actually one of my favorites in the cast. Steals almost every scene he's in.

End of Disc One, on 22 August 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

Most people tend to think the show gets better as it goes. I would say that the "stupid" gradually goes away as the show becomes more serious.

I remember rewatching the show and being surprised at how funny it was early on.

There is an element of humour, but it follows from the sheer inaptitude of Walt and Jessee. Just look at how they connect in S1... Walt is a failed everything except chemist, and Jesse is a complete loser, but Walt has mad chemist skills and Jesse is the only dealer he has, so they move along and then start to 'bond'.

Aptorius, on 22 August 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

Yeah, I guess I am still waiting to understand why Walter White is an elementary school teacher.
...

WAFO.

Warming, on 23 August 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

Keep Watching. I was in the same boat as you. The show started off interesting and then it gets lame, but then it gets REALLY REALLY GOOD.

Season 1: Decent start but some really slow parts.
Season 2: Where is this show going? Pretty bored.
Season 3: I see where this is going, this is going to be good.
Season 4: And Im hooked, AMAZING!!
Season 5: Still Amazing
Season 6: So far really really really good

I rate S2 and 3 higher than that. Yes 4+ are brilliant, but the storytelling in 2-3 and the character development is masterfully done, notwithstanding

Spoiler

one character in particular that most people hate.

Aptorius, on 23 August 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

...He doesn't have any more than a Masters degree? From the way he's spoken off I assumed he AT LEAST had a Phd. I think I saw a Nobel prize hanging on a wall some where. If you have your name on a diploma from Nobel I suspect that you can at least get some kind of flunky position in a lab. If nothing else they'd hire you just to be able to drop your prize or nomination during sales pitches.

And it's not so much "they shouldn't have done that" as it's just plain bad lies.... lacks intelligent planning.

Walt has degrees. WAFO. There's a reason he's at where he is.

As for bad planning, the entire point of the situations they find themselves in is that they are very, very bad at this and more often than not get lucky, or Walt pulls his shit together and does something ballsy because cancer.

QuickTidal, on 23 August 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

The show is basically the idea of taking a hero (or at least if not a hero, an altruistic, and good individual with honorable intentions) and turning him not only into a bad guy, but an irredeemable supervillain.

It's an inexorable descent....

I go one further... not a hero, not even necessarily a good person, but an ordinary guy who's made bad choices and played everything safe and finds himself in a situation that makes everything to that point worthless. Walt has one motive in S1... make enough money to leave his family comfortable when he dies. It's that desperation and narrow narrow focus that leads to everything that follows.

[Agraba]

Aptorius, on 23 August 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

He doesn't have any more than a Masters degree? From the way he's spoken off I assumed he AT LEAST had a Phd. I think I saw a Nobel prize hanging on a wall some where. If you have your name on a diploma from Nobel I suspect that you can at least get some kind of flunky position in a lab. If nothing else they'd hire you just to be able to drop your prize or nomination during sales pitches.

And it's not so much "they shouldn't have done that" as it's just plain bad lies. Right from the start, when Walter is disappearing for hours every day, week after week, he should have done something. If he wants to keep on lying he needs to make it a true lie. He should have stated that he is too proud to get that money and he's finding something else. Make up a fake job. Tell his wife that he's freelancing or something like that and they've even given him his own place to work out off. THERE now he has an excuse to go missing, he's trying to make enough money to save their lives. After that, in season two, when it's obvious he's no longer able to stop himself, he should have out right made the lie a truth. Contact a lawyer and a financial advisor. Set up a business he can put on his tax return, use this business to order the supplies he needs, make up dummy corporations that can buy what he makes, funnel the drug money through this. Or what ever, I am not an expert in money laundering but I know enough to say that what he's been doing is unrealistic and lacks intelligent planning.

Well he's referred to as "Mr. White" by everyone, including people who want to use the correct honorific to be courteous, so I don't think he has his PhD. The plaque didn't say he has a Nobel Prize, only that his research team contributed to research that won the Nobel Prize. If he had a Nobel Prize himself, universities would be fighting to get him as a faculty member with tenure. But I'll admit that the plaque might have been a cock-up by the writers, it still seems too good for someone who would go into high school teaching.

Starting a business is a tall order, even if it's just a cover-up business for your meth distribution. It takes a long time and a lot of money, which Walter doesn't have for a while. Meanwhile Walter has to think of something to tell Skyler before it's even up, as well as where he would get the money to do such a thing, since they don't have it. He very well can't tell her he's working at a new company, because that requires a ton of follow up information, and she should be able to ask about it and see it, seeing as how she's his wife (unless you want him to take the "never ask me about my business" approach). What could you logically tell her that wouldn't blow up in your face?