[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 5. 12 hours and 46 minutes remaining

14 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Rashan ( Trake )

Players not voted: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan

[Alkend]

Trake, on 04 August 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

13 hours in the day remaining. I didn't find anything in the last couple pages that jumped out at my sun addled brain. I would say I'm willing to vote just about any which way to get a lynch,I still prefer Mockra or Rash, with Barghast a potential choice as well. For now I shall

vote Rashan

Screw it.
Vote Rashan

[Mockra]

Trake, on 04 August 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

13 hours in the day remaining. I didn't find anything in the last couple pages that jumped out at my sun addled brain. I would say I'm willing to vote just about any which way to get a lynch,I still prefer Mockra or Rash, with Barghast a potential choice as well. For now I shall

vote Rashan

I don't really think Rashan is scum, anymore. I was mostly worried about Rashan when he claimed to be the only kill on night 3, but with evidently some type of restriction on scum kills, I tend to believe him. Trake, you're staying clean by just putting cases on random people. You claim me as a low participant, even after I've done my best to increase participatiion. You push Rashan because he's the easiest target. And although I actually agree with you that Barghast is suspicious, it's only somewhat. You're throwing around attacks in all directions, and it's not as if you really care who you get lynched, as long as you're leading the thread and avoiding being the target yourself. Super scummy behavior, in my opinion,but I'm not going to OMGUS you any further than that. I'd appreciate you quit being some gun happy and actually help us focus on something real.

For example, I don't like Eloth's play. He's been sporadic in his posts, but making sure to point his to get, but I doubt it's good enough to start pointing him out, yet. Make up your damn mind. If it's me, fine. Stick to me. Stick to someone.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 5. 12 hours and 33 minutes remaining

14 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

2 Votes for Rashan ( Trake, Alkend )

Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 5. 10 hours and 8 minutes remaining

14 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

2 Votes for Rashan ( Trake, Alkend )

Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan

[Trake]

Mockra, on 04 August 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

Trake, on 04 August 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

13 hours in the day remaining. I didn't find anything in the last couple pages that jumped out at my sun addled brain. I would say I'm willing to vote just about any which way to get a lynch,I still prefer Mockra or Rash, with Barghast a potential choice as well. For now I shall

vote Rashan

I don't really think Rashan is scum, anymore. I was mostly worried about Rashan when he claimed to be the only kill on night 3, but with evidently some type of restriction on scum kills, I tend to believe him. Trake, you're staying clean by just putting cases on random people. You claim me as a low participant, even after I've done my best to increase participatiion. You push Rashan because he's the easiest target. And although I actually agree with you that Barghast is suspicious, it's only somewhat. You're throwing around attacks in all directions, and it's not as if you really care who you get lynched, as long as you're leading the thread and avoiding being the target yourself. Super scummy behavior, in my opinion,but I'm not going to OMGUS you any further than that. I'd appreciate you quit being some gun happy and actually help us focus on something real.

For example, I don't like Eloth's play. He's been sporadic in his posts, but making sure to point his to get, but I doubt it's good enough to start pointing him out, yet. Make up your damn mind. If it's me, fine. Stick to me. Stick to someone.

I hardly think I'm leading the thread. If I am that's more a sad statement about other people's participation than anything else. I state my feelings about what I've read and if I am able I read back and put forward some observations I've made same as anyone. And how have I been inconsistent? I haven't liked Rash all game and have voted him repeatedly, lately more so because of the way his lynch trains keep failing. I didn't like you and voted for you, though since you have upped the participation. Whether that's only because I called you out I can't really say, but still, you do post more. Finally today, in response to a suggestion by Galain, I pointed out that Barghast fit the bill but fit it too obviously. I'm glad to know I'm making waves, if I wasn't I'd say lynch me now because I'm useless. But there are still at least 2 killers out there, probably 2 pairs, and I'm going to keep trying to find them. If my cases seem random to you, so be it. I couldn't care less about a bit of randomness. Maybe that's just what we need around here.

[Tellan]

I'm with Trake. He hasn't particularly been leading the thread up until now, when the only reason I think it could seem that way is because no one seems to have been on thread this weekend besides you(Mockra), me, him, Galain, and for about one post Alkend. The Barghast suspicions are interesting, and I do think we need to really start putting some pressure on people instead of just going on the same suspicions we've been going on since day 1. However, we really do need to clear up the thread, those failed lynch trained are really bothering me. I'm going to do a read up on Eloth, to see what's making Mockra suspicious of him, because we need to start broadening our search. We've been collectively tunneled in on Alkend and Rashan all game, and that needs to change if we're going to find scum. I'll check out Eloth, and if I don't fall asleep, maybe Barghast too. Barghast hasn't pinged my scumdar much, but you never know what you may find on a reread. Should neither Barghast nor Eloth seem scummy to me, I'll drop my vote on Rashan before I go to bed.

[Tellan]

So not much on Eloth:

Eloth agreed with Barghast's attempt to halt role distribution/mechanics discussion, saying: "This is a good point. Make them figure out how that shit works without our help."



Then comments how he finds Desra's angry defense to be interesting: "This comes off as very defensive. He had a mini case and one vote against him and he gets all hot and bothered. interesting" and says he's still catching up


He brings up both me and Rashan as lurkers, but (about Rashan) thinks "it is hard to see a symp being this blatant, but also, the fact that he just pops in right before lynch and, like Tellan, doesn't drop a vote is weird."


Thinks "we might be on to something with Alkend."


He then goes away on a business trip, saying he'll be away until friday, and on Thursday checks in to say he believes the Alkend reveal, votes Jalan for playing smooth, voices his suspicions on me, but says he has very little on me, says he trusts Barghy and Okaros, and signs off. And that's the last he's posted.


I don't see much suspicious behavior here. The agreement with Barghast has been consistent and often when compared to the volume of his posts, and he votes Jalan for little reason, but I really don't think that's anywhere near enough for me to vote for him. My read on him stays neutral. Should Barghast seem scummy, there'll be a bit of a connection between them.




p.s: I have some time on my hands, so I may be doing these analyses on more than just Eloth and Barghast. Next on my list will be either Galain, Jalan, or Anthras after Barghy

[Tellan]

Barghast has the whole discouraging role spec thing, but that (to me), seems pretty innocent, more like a concerned townie than scum trying to keep town in the dark.

He then makes a kind of schedule predicting what will happen this game. Some people brought it up as a get out of jail free card for mislynches, but to me it seemed more of a pragmatic view of what could happen than an attempt to get an excuse for lynching townies.

After the failed Day 1 lynch, he becomes a proponent of an Alkend lynch, based on Rashan's refusal to vote him (which I don't think had happened yet, maybe he confused it for his refusal to vote Desra?)

He starts the Cast train after the Alkend reveal, which just seems kind of like an attempt to just get any lynch instead of a second straight no-lynch.

When Rashan brings suspicion against him in attempt to find a lynch target after the Alkend reveal, he refers back to other posts he makes, which I considered a solid defense to the accusations (posts 138 and 139, if you're wondering)

After the Cast lynch and 2 NK's, he says he thinks rashan's "play stinks of poor town play, but I'm not getting too many scum vibes from him"He brings me up as a suspect in his mind but never really elaborates past a comparison between me and Rashan.

He disagree's with Hanas' comment about Mockra's post being contradictory, and therefore scummy.He reiterates that he thinks "people are barking up the wrong tree with Rash"

He says that Hanas voting Rashan with a train on D'riss "can easily be interpreted as you being resistant to lynch D'riss, y'know."

He could've been the hammer vote on Rashan, but didn't vote, continuing his assertion that he thinks Rashan is town after the vig reveal.

And lastly, he votes Mockra before he leaves.

His play, all in all, seems very town. he takes a pragmatic view on the game, which some people think is scummy, but besides that and possible connections to Rashan should we lynch Rashan and have him CF scum, he's clean.

Next up, Anthras.

[Tellan]

He is the first to point out Desra's comment that sounded like he wanted scum to win.

A few contentless posts.

He says the no NK on day 1 was because "either killers can't attack on night one, BP or lucky heal." (The last two possibilites make sense, and did at the time, but the first one seems a bit odd to me. Not only does he put up the three option as if they're the only ones, the first one sticks out because I never would have thought of it, and as a rule of thumb, if someone brings up a possibility worded as either an assumption or something else more than random speculation, then they probably have knowledge the thread doesn't have about it. So this is a bit suspicious to me.


Votes alkend to get more info on thread.


Comments on Rashan's U turn regarding Alkend


He gets onto the Cast train, and then leaves, citing his impending absence as the reason for the vote.


He notices Okaros' post regarding Alkend's reveal and his potential lover(s), who Okaros seems to be urging to reveal (scummy by Okaros, may take a look)


He also states he wont take Alkend's defence as gospel


I'll quote this last one:

Anthras, on 02 August 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

well i missed out on a lot there, a few things stuck out to me as odd.

The way I see it, when PS made his mistake everyone was panicing thinking we were running out of time. When theres less than 1-2 hours left on the clock, and you need a lot of votes to get a lynch, then you don't try and figure out a mechanic, you try and find a viable target.

it looked like hanas tried to get everyone back to voting rashan, which coincidently, would of saved kalse, and D'riss, who are both town, but did it in a way that makes me want to vote him...

Makes me want to take a look at Hanas.

So the first post I saw seemed scummy to me, but the rest didn't do much either way. I'll keep an eye on Anthras, but he's not at the top of my list.

As of now, after the next person I look at, I'm going to bed, so if they don't seem scummy, it'll be Rashan again with my vote.

And next up, due to the urging of Alkend to reveal his potential lover(s), is Okaros.

[Tellan]

Okaros starts off with some role spec, then goes on to say that Desra's comment about knowing his clan may be a slip

He then votes Alkend for avoiding the Day one lynch.

He disagrees with Barghast about role spec (scum trying to draw out more spec? or just town trying to get more knowledge on thread?)

He then tries to get Alkend to get his potential lover(s) to out themselves on thread to VPI or CI him:

Okaros, on 01 August 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

If I were to believe Alkend, I have a hard time trying to put together all of the things Alkend has said and done here into a cohesive MO.

Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Sigh.
I'm Goro, of the Miura clan.
My ability allows certain members of the two town factions to communicate, under very specific circumstances.
Happy now?

So, under pressure on day 2 Alkend reveals a role that it seems cannot give us any useful information through his reveal other than to PI him. It's not as bad as a Healer revealing, but it's fairly close. Why reveal? Just to save your skin? But since you emphasize that it is only under "very specific circumstances" you are implying that it is a weak role. Generally, it is not useful to reveal due to pressure when your reveal and role can't provide any info to town like a Finder can. All it does is identify for scum a roled town. It's generally better not to give scum that information they don't have and keep them more in the dark about the town setup and who is left.

This game is supposed to be low TMDI, so all of those principles still apply.

But instead Alkend felt that revealing his weak role to save his skin is more beneficial for town than keeping quiet. I have two problems with believing this idea:

1. If the reveal helps us, why not reveal fully? Tell us what the "very specific circumstances" are. If you've already revealed as roled town, what's the harm in giving town more information (which ultimately is always what town lacks and needs to win) instead of being coy about it? The scum will try and remove you whether they know the details or whether they just know you are roled town. But you had all day and didn't do so. (And before you make some "I didn't want to get modkilled" defence, a simple read of the OP indicates that revealing your abilities is allowed as long as you change the wording, which should not be difficult, so that is no excuse)

2.

Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Anthras, on 31 July 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

So there is no way Alkend can verify his claim?

Short of the person I communicate on behalf of coming on thread and saying "Yep, he's cool", there's nothing I can do.
If you are that person, don't be an idiot.

Alkend then discourages his supposed lover from publicly confirming his reveal. Why? He's already revealing to save his skin so clearly Alkend thinks he is important to town. Why be only a PI and not get yourself a VPI or CI? Especially since with no kill last night there's a high chance of a healer - if the healer is convinced you are CI they won't be doubting themselves from healing you every night. Furthermore, whomever is the lover and speaks up to confirm the reveal is not in any more danger because since Alkend has not revealed any mechanics of his ability the person he turns into a lover could just as easily be roled town, RI, or even scum. That person does not need to reveal anything about themselves, just say "I am Alkend's current lover as of last night and what he says is true" and nothing more, which doesn't reveal anything about themselves but does give town more information to work with.

So if Alkend actively believes his revealing is worth it to town, and if there's no harm in someone else confirming it to assuage our doubts, why is he discouraging that from happening?!


So yeah, I have a very hard time believing that Alkend's intentions here match what a player who wants town to win would be doing.



Oh, and also, I can't find any Goros who were affiliated with the Miura clan. But if you were hurriedly doing a google search for a plausible Miura name to fake reveal as, one of the top results might be Miura Goro, which sounds good as long as you don't read too much about him and realize that he is born in the wrong century to be a Sengoku samurai...

In the same quote, he mentions how there are no known Goro's affiliated with miura except for one in the wrong century, which casts doubt on the Alkend reveal.He proceeds to vote Alkend again because of Alkend's reluctance to reveal the circumstances, etc, or when/how his role works.
I'd put Okaros at about the same level of suspiciousness as Anthras. They both have one post that makes me want to keep an eye on them, but not enough evidence to be even near conclusive.

[Tellan]

Ok, none of these four seem scummy enough to warrant letting Rashan cloud up the thread by his simple presence for another day. So for now,

Vote Rashan.


I'll try to wake up early enough so that I can change my vote if the train goes elsewhere.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 5. 7 hours and 55 minutes remaining
14 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

3 Votes for Rashan ( Trake, Alkend, Tellan )

Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan

[Eloth]

Going tobed. I'll be on proper tomorrow and should be able to play with a stable schedule. I really don't think Rashan is scum. Self vote and a big reveal. Admitting to an inno kill is always risky. Scum have had no pressure with our lack of ability to get a lynch. Why would they make a risky play like that? Doesn't make sense. I'll leave a vote on him as it looks like he is the only lynch candidate today. I'll be asleep when timeout occurs so leaving a vote now. I still don't like Jalans play. Would rather vote him but until I can really dig deeper, it's just gut.

vote Rashan

Good night

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 5. 4 hours and 52 minutes remaining
14 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

4 Votes for Rashan ( Trake, Alkend, Tellan, Eloth )

Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan

[Gait]

Vote Rashan

Why the fuck does one vig so early in the game, and if one does, why does he then not explain his choice?!

[Gait]

I don't count "smooth" as a reason, obviously, in regard to the above.

That being said, this game stinks of poor play through and through. I know I am hardly in the position to point fingers with my continued absences, but since I'm a hypocrite, I will anyway .
There's more name-calling than suspicions, and people are being flamed for situations that, while unfortunate, are part of life.

With regard to the lack of scum kills over the weekend: I don't think, if you are a killer, that you'd fail to put in a provisional and get it confirmed by P-S - only way that might happen is if the partner-killer is also absent and forgets to confirm the kill, not having made the blanket statement: "I auto-confirm any prov you make" on day 1. Which would be poor play.

I think Rashan should go. Not only is he completely lacking in explanations, preferring to self-vote in lieu of expanding on his thoughts, he also self-votes which could get him an easy ride into the end-game if we let it stand, inno-vibe or not. My gut tingles at Hanas as he is very good in being confrontational through name-calling and using circumstances around the failed lynch to accuse people, but offers almost no viewpoints otherwise. It is a very safe way to seem to contribute.

Mockra doesn't give me scum vibes. Trake and Barghast seem level-headed, I believe for now in PI status but that could also be un-pressed scum.
Tellan seems mostly inno to me, scum wouldn't do as much legwork for nought, although I am curious to see if they can keep it up.
Okaros seemed smart early on. And that's most of what I have.

[Korbas]

The problem I see with the theory that scum weren't around to choose a target is that it is simple enough to leave a provisional target, in particular in Barghast's case, when he knew he wouldn't be around during the weekend.

I personally don't think Rashan is scum, but we don't have a lot of options at this time, and his self-pity is irritating.

vote Rashan

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 5. 3 hours and 51 minutes remaining
14 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

6 Votes for Rashan ( Trake, Alkend, Tellan, Eloth, Gait, Korbas )

Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan

[Korbas]

I agree, 'smooth' pay is a dumb reason to vig someone. The rest of his actions say inno to me though.

Hanas' determination to misinterpret the events of d'riss' lynch rung warning bells for me, but apart from that I don't think we've had enough posting to get a god indication of most of the others.