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Ugh. My gut is saying look at Rashan but I don't expect to find much. The way he kind of distanced himself from Desra right off the bat just tingles my spidey sense. Problem is that's too obvious. At least we can say the castle restriction on kills is a considerably more likely theory now. Wellp, time for bed. I hope to have new insight via morning eyes.
104 - Warring States Mafia 4 - Fujiwari Expansion Sengoku Series
#442
Okaros 
- Sergeant
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- Group: Game alts
- Posts: 80
- Joined: 17-June 09
Posted 01 August 2013 - 03:30 AM
If I were to believe Alkend, I have a hard time trying to put together all of the things Alkend has said and done here into a cohesive MO.
So, under pressure on day 2 Alkend reveals a role that it seems cannot give us any useful information through his reveal other than to PI him. It's not as bad as a Healer revealing, but it's fairly close. Why reveal? Just to save your skin? But since you emphasize that it is only under "very specific circumstances" you are implying that it is a weak role. Generally, it is not useful to reveal due to pressure when your reveal and role can't provide any info to town like a Finder can. All it does is identify for scum a roled town. It's generally better not to give scum that information they don't have and keep them more in the dark about the town setup and who is left.
This game is supposed to be low TMDI, so all of those principles still apply.
But instead Alkend felt that revealing his weak role to save his skin is more beneficial for town than keeping quiet. I have two problems with believing this idea:
1. If the reveal helps us, why not reveal fully? Tell us what the "very specific circumstances" are. If you've already revealed as roled town, what's the harm in giving town more information (which ultimately is always what town lacks and needs to win) instead of being coy about it? The scum will try and remove you whether they know the details or whether they just know you are roled town. But you had all day and didn't do so. (And before you make some "I didn't want to get modkilled" defence, a simple read of the OP indicates that revealing your abilities is allowed as long as you change the wording, which should not be difficult, so that is no excuse)
2.
Short of the person I communicate on behalf of coming on thread and saying "Yep, he's cool", there's nothing I can do.
If you are that person, don't be an idiot.
Alkend then discourages his supposed lover from publicly confirming his reveal. Why? He's already revealing to save his skin so clearly Alkend thinks he is important to town. Why be only a PI and not get yourself a VPI or CI? Especially since with no kill last night there's a high chance of a healer - if the healer is convinced you are CI they won't be doubting themselves from healing you every night. Furthermore, whomever is the lover and speaks up to confirm the reveal is not in any more danger because since Alkend has not revealed any mechanics of his ability the person he turns into a lover could just as easily be roled town, RI, or even scum. That person does not need to reveal anything about themselves, just say "I am Alkend's current lover as of last night and what he says is true" and nothing more, which doesn't reveal anything about themselves but does give town more information to work with.
So if Alkend actively believes his revealing is worth it to town, and if there's no harm in someone else confirming it to assuage our doubts, why is he discouraging that from happening?!
So yeah, I have a very hard time believing that Alkend's intentions here match what a player who wants town to win would be doing.
Oh, and also, I can't find any Goros who were affiliated with the Miura clan. But if you were hurriedly doing a google search for a plausible Miura name to fake reveal as, one of the top results might be Miura Goro, which sounds good as long as you don't read too much about him and realize that he is born in the wrong century to be a Sengoku samurai...
Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:
Sigh.
I'm Goro, of the Miura clan.
My ability allows certain members of the two town factions to communicate, under very specific circumstances.
Happy now?
I'm Goro, of the Miura clan.
My ability allows certain members of the two town factions to communicate, under very specific circumstances.
Happy now?
So, under pressure on day 2 Alkend reveals a role that it seems cannot give us any useful information through his reveal other than to PI him. It's not as bad as a Healer revealing, but it's fairly close. Why reveal? Just to save your skin? But since you emphasize that it is only under "very specific circumstances" you are implying that it is a weak role. Generally, it is not useful to reveal due to pressure when your reveal and role can't provide any info to town like a Finder can. All it does is identify for scum a roled town. It's generally better not to give scum that information they don't have and keep them more in the dark about the town setup and who is left.
This game is supposed to be low TMDI, so all of those principles still apply.
But instead Alkend felt that revealing his weak role to save his skin is more beneficial for town than keeping quiet. I have two problems with believing this idea:
1. If the reveal helps us, why not reveal fully? Tell us what the "very specific circumstances" are. If you've already revealed as roled town, what's the harm in giving town more information (which ultimately is always what town lacks and needs to win) instead of being coy about it? The scum will try and remove you whether they know the details or whether they just know you are roled town. But you had all day and didn't do so. (And before you make some "I didn't want to get modkilled" defence, a simple read of the OP indicates that revealing your abilities is allowed as long as you change the wording, which should not be difficult, so that is no excuse)
2.
Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:
Anthras, on 31 July 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:
So there is no way Alkend can verify his claim?
Short of the person I communicate on behalf of coming on thread and saying "Yep, he's cool", there's nothing I can do.
If you are that person, don't be an idiot.
Alkend then discourages his supposed lover from publicly confirming his reveal. Why? He's already revealing to save his skin so clearly Alkend thinks he is important to town. Why be only a PI and not get yourself a VPI or CI? Especially since with no kill last night there's a high chance of a healer - if the healer is convinced you are CI they won't be doubting themselves from healing you every night. Furthermore, whomever is the lover and speaks up to confirm the reveal is not in any more danger because since Alkend has not revealed any mechanics of his ability the person he turns into a lover could just as easily be roled town, RI, or even scum. That person does not need to reveal anything about themselves, just say "I am Alkend's current lover as of last night and what he says is true" and nothing more, which doesn't reveal anything about themselves but does give town more information to work with.
So if Alkend actively believes his revealing is worth it to town, and if there's no harm in someone else confirming it to assuage our doubts, why is he discouraging that from happening?!
So yeah, I have a very hard time believing that Alkend's intentions here match what a player who wants town to win would be doing.
Oh, and also, I can't find any Goros who were affiliated with the Miura clan. But if you were hurriedly doing a google search for a plausible Miura name to fake reveal as, one of the top results might be Miura Goro, which sounds good as long as you don't read too much about him and realize that he is born in the wrong century to be a Sengoku samurai...
#443
Alkend
- Lieutenant
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- Group: Game alts
- Posts: 110
- Joined: 17-June 09
Posted 01 August 2013 - 03:47 AM
Okaros, on 01 August 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:
If I were to believe Alkend, I have a hard time trying to put together all of the things Alkend has said and done here into a cohesive MO.
So, under pressure on day 2 Alkend reveals a role that it seems cannot give us any useful information through his reveal other than to PI him. It's not as bad as a Healer revealing, but it's fairly close. Why reveal? Just to save your skin? But since you emphasize that it is only under "very specific circumstances" you are implying that it is a weak role. Generally, it is not useful to reveal due to pressure when your reveal and role can't provide any info to town like a Finder can. All it does is identify for scum a roled town. It's generally better not to give scum that information they don't have and keep them more in the dark about the town setup and who is left.
Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:
Sigh.
I'm Goro, of the Miura clan.
My ability allows certain members of the two town factions to communicate, under very specific circumstances.
Happy now?
I'm Goro, of the Miura clan.
My ability allows certain members of the two town factions to communicate, under very specific circumstances.
Happy now?
So, under pressure on day 2 Alkend reveals a role that it seems cannot give us any useful information through his reveal other than to PI him. It's not as bad as a Healer revealing, but it's fairly close. Why reveal? Just to save your skin? But since you emphasize that it is only under "very specific circumstances" you are implying that it is a weak role. Generally, it is not useful to reveal due to pressure when your reveal and role can't provide any info to town like a Finder can. All it does is identify for scum a roled town. It's generally better not to give scum that information they don't have and keep them more in the dark about the town setup and who is left.
Better to avoid a lynch when you know you're innocent and the argument against you is poor.
Quote
This game is supposed to be low TMDI, so all of those principles still apply.
But instead Alkend felt that revealing his weak role to save his skin is more beneficial for town than keeping quiet. I have two problems with believing this idea:
1. If the reveal helps us, why not reveal fully? Tell us what the "very specific circumstances" are. If you've already revealed as roled town, what's the harm in giving town more information (which ultimately is always what town lacks and needs to win) instead of being coy about it? The scum will try and remove you whether they know the details or whether they just know you are roled town. But you had all day and didn't do so. (And before you make some "I didn't want to get modkilled" defence, a simple read of the OP indicates that revealing your abilities is allowed as long as you change the wording, which should not be difficult, so that is no excuse)
But instead Alkend felt that revealing his weak role to save his skin is more beneficial for town than keeping quiet. I have two problems with believing this idea:
1. If the reveal helps us, why not reveal fully? Tell us what the "very specific circumstances" are. If you've already revealed as roled town, what's the harm in giving town more information (which ultimately is always what town lacks and needs to win) instead of being coy about it? The scum will try and remove you whether they know the details or whether they just know you are roled town. But you had all day and didn't do so. (And before you make some "I didn't want to get modkilled" defence, a simple read of the OP indicates that revealing your abilities is allowed as long as you change the wording, which should not be difficult, so that is no excuse)
Fine. When the members of the two factions are able to form an alliance (don't ask me how that works, I don't know), and I am still alive, which makes sense given my role title, which I'll synonym as "paperboy".
Quote
2.
Short of the person I communicate on behalf of coming on thread and saying "Yep, he's cool", there's nothing I can do.
If you are that person, don't be an idiot.
Alkend then discourages his supposed lover from publicly confirming his reveal. Why? He's already revealing to save his skin so clearly Alkend thinks he is important to town. Why be only a PI and not get yourself a VPI or CI? Especially since with no kill last night there's a high chance of a healer - if the healer is convinced you are CI they won't be doubting themselves from healing you every night. Furthermore, whomever is the lover and speaks up to confirm the reveal is not in any more danger because since Alkend has not revealed any mechanics of his ability the person he turns into a lover could just as easily be roled town, RI, or even scum. That person does not need to reveal anything about themselves, just say "I am Alkend's current lover as of last night and what he says is true" and nothing more, which doesn't reveal anything about themselves but does give town more information to work with.
Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:
Anthras, on 31 July 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:
So there is no way Alkend can verify his claim?
Short of the person I communicate on behalf of coming on thread and saying "Yep, he's cool", there's nothing I can do.
If you are that person, don't be an idiot.
Alkend then discourages his supposed lover from publicly confirming his reveal. Why? He's already revealing to save his skin so clearly Alkend thinks he is important to town. Why be only a PI and not get yourself a VPI or CI? Especially since with no kill last night there's a high chance of a healer - if the healer is convinced you are CI they won't be doubting themselves from healing you every night. Furthermore, whomever is the lover and speaks up to confirm the reveal is not in any more danger because since Alkend has not revealed any mechanics of his ability the person he turns into a lover could just as easily be roled town, RI, or even scum. That person does not need to reveal anything about themselves, just say "I am Alkend's current lover as of last night and what he says is true" and nothing more, which doesn't reveal anything about themselves but does give town more information to work with.
I don't have a lover. I communicate on behalf of a named character with the other castle, who I assume knows who I am, or at least knows the role name. I don't know who they are by alt. They are probably irreplaceable and so should not reveal under any circumstances.
Quote
So if Alkend actively believes his revealing is worth it to town, and if there's no harm in someone else confirming it to assuage our doubts, why is he discouraging that from happening?!
So yeah, I have a very hard time believing that Alkend's intentions here match what a player who wants town to win would be doing.
Oh, and also, I can't find any Goros who were affiliated with the Miura clan. But if you were hurriedly doing a google search for a plausible Miura name to fake reveal as, one of the top results might be Miura Goro, which sounds good as long as you don't read too much about him and realize that he is born in the wrong century to be a Sengoku samurai...
So yeah, I have a very hard time believing that Alkend's intentions here match what a player who wants town to win would be doing.
Oh, and also, I can't find any Goros who were affiliated with the Miura clan. But if you were hurriedly doing a google search for a plausible Miura name to fake reveal as, one of the top results might be Miura Goro, which sounds good as long as you don't read too much about him and realize that he is born in the wrong century to be a Sengoku samurai...
I'm hoping my reveal lets me survive long enough for an alliance to be brokered and for whatever that means to have some effect.
As for the Goro Miura thing, the game is set in an alternate timeline, I guess, but honestly, I don't know.
#444
Anthras
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- Joined: 17-June 09
Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:15 AM
Okaros, on 01 August 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:
If I were to believe Alkend, I have a hard time trying to put together all of the things Alkend has said and done here into a cohesive MO.
So, under pressure on day 2 Alkend reveals a role that it seems cannot give us any useful information through his reveal other than to PI him. It's not as bad as a Healer revealing, but it's fairly close. Why reveal? Just to save your skin? But since you emphasize that it is only under "very specific circumstances" you are implying that it is a weak role. Generally, it is not useful to reveal due to pressure when your reveal and role can't provide any info to town like a Finder can. All it does is identify for scum a roled town. It's generally better not to give scum that information they don't have and keep them more in the dark about the town setup and who is left.
This game is supposed to be low TMDI, so all of those principles still apply.
But instead Alkend felt that revealing his weak role to save his skin is more beneficial for town than keeping quiet. I have two problems with believing this idea:
1. If the reveal helps us, why not reveal fully? Tell us what the "very specific circumstances" are. If you've already revealed as roled town, what's the harm in giving town more information (which ultimately is always what town lacks and needs to win) instead of being coy about it? The scum will try and remove you whether they know the details or whether they just know you are roled town. But you had all day and didn't do so. (And before you make some "I didn't want to get modkilled" defence, a simple read of the OP indicates that revealing your abilities is allowed as long as you change the wording, which should not be difficult, so that is no excuse)
2.
Short of the person I communicate on behalf of coming on thread and saying "Yep, he's cool", there's nothing I can do.
If you are that person, don't be an idiot.
Alkend then discourages his supposed lover from publicly confirming his reveal. Why? He's already revealing to save his skin so clearly Alkend thinks he is important to town. Why be only a PI and not get yourself a VPI or CI? Especially since with no kill last night there's a high chance of a healer - if the healer is convinced you are CI they won't be doubting themselves from healing you every night. Furthermore, whomever is the lover and speaks up to confirm the reveal is not in any more danger because since Alkend has not revealed any mechanics of his ability the person he turns into a lover could just as easily be roled town, RI, or even scum. That person does not need to reveal anything about themselves, just say "I am Alkend's current lover as of last night and what he says is true" and nothing more, which doesn't reveal anything about themselves but does give town more information to work with.
So if Alkend actively believes his revealing is worth it to town, and if there's no harm in someone else confirming it to assuage our doubts, why is he discouraging that from happening?!
So yeah, I have a very hard time believing that Alkend's intentions here match what a player who wants town to win would be doing.
Oh, and also, I can't find any Goros who were affiliated with the Miura clan. But if you were hurriedly doing a google search for a plausible Miura name to fake reveal as, one of the top results might be Miura Goro, which sounds good as long as you don't read too much about him and realize that he is born in the wrong century to be a Sengoku samurai...
Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:
Sigh.
I'm Goro, of the Miura clan.
My ability allows certain members of the two town factions to communicate, under very specific circumstances.
Happy now?
I'm Goro, of the Miura clan.
My ability allows certain members of the two town factions to communicate, under very specific circumstances.
Happy now?
So, under pressure on day 2 Alkend reveals a role that it seems cannot give us any useful information through his reveal other than to PI him. It's not as bad as a Healer revealing, but it's fairly close. Why reveal? Just to save your skin? But since you emphasize that it is only under "very specific circumstances" you are implying that it is a weak role. Generally, it is not useful to reveal due to pressure when your reveal and role can't provide any info to town like a Finder can. All it does is identify for scum a roled town. It's generally better not to give scum that information they don't have and keep them more in the dark about the town setup and who is left.
This game is supposed to be low TMDI, so all of those principles still apply.
But instead Alkend felt that revealing his weak role to save his skin is more beneficial for town than keeping quiet. I have two problems with believing this idea:
1. If the reveal helps us, why not reveal fully? Tell us what the "very specific circumstances" are. If you've already revealed as roled town, what's the harm in giving town more information (which ultimately is always what town lacks and needs to win) instead of being coy about it? The scum will try and remove you whether they know the details or whether they just know you are roled town. But you had all day and didn't do so. (And before you make some "I didn't want to get modkilled" defence, a simple read of the OP indicates that revealing your abilities is allowed as long as you change the wording, which should not be difficult, so that is no excuse)
2.
Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:
Anthras, on 31 July 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:
So there is no way Alkend can verify his claim?
Short of the person I communicate on behalf of coming on thread and saying "Yep, he's cool", there's nothing I can do.
If you are that person, don't be an idiot.
Alkend then discourages his supposed lover from publicly confirming his reveal. Why? He's already revealing to save his skin so clearly Alkend thinks he is important to town. Why be only a PI and not get yourself a VPI or CI? Especially since with no kill last night there's a high chance of a healer - if the healer is convinced you are CI they won't be doubting themselves from healing you every night. Furthermore, whomever is the lover and speaks up to confirm the reveal is not in any more danger because since Alkend has not revealed any mechanics of his ability the person he turns into a lover could just as easily be roled town, RI, or even scum. That person does not need to reveal anything about themselves, just say "I am Alkend's current lover as of last night and what he says is true" and nothing more, which doesn't reveal anything about themselves but does give town more information to work with.
So if Alkend actively believes his revealing is worth it to town, and if there's no harm in someone else confirming it to assuage our doubts, why is he discouraging that from happening?!
So yeah, I have a very hard time believing that Alkend's intentions here match what a player who wants town to win would be doing.
Oh, and also, I can't find any Goros who were affiliated with the Miura clan. But if you were hurriedly doing a google search for a plausible Miura name to fake reveal as, one of the top results might be Miura Goro, which sounds good as long as you don't read too much about him and realize that he is born in the wrong century to be a Sengoku samurai...
If we take Alkends defence as gospel, which im not quite prepared to do. Then this post is trying to get his lover( s ) to reveal and Im not sure thats a good thing...
#445
Gait
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:19 AM
Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:
Galain, on 31 July 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:
Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:
Path-Shaper, on 31 July 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:
Cast is dead. He was Yasuhide Narumasa and Peanutbutta of Arai Castle
GODDAMNIT MAN
If you hadn't dropped that "You'll likely die if I get lynched" comment and hadn't approached the reveal so badly...
So, you're actually expecting to die from something other than a scum NA?
No, but as a rule any time someone says "I am X and if I die, TERRIBLE THINGS WILL HAPPEN TO ONE OR ALL OF YOU", it usually means they are scum.
No you fucking dumbass, it means you get NKed because you're PIed.
#446
Gait
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:26 AM
OK, now let's roll with what the kills mean and incorporate that silly theory about castles.
We saw no kills night 1, and 2 night 2.
If the castle theory is correct, we have a team of X killers gunning for castle 1, and Y killers for castle 2.
Basically, we have 3 options: 0 kills, 1 kill and 2 kills.
If the killers are in contact with one another, the best we'll get is a night with 0 kills, followed by a night with 2 kills (the killers switch target with one another).
In essence, this won't change the speed of the game and is thus the preferred option for a mod to arrange things.
If they are not in contact with one another, the results are going to be completely random. In fact, if one team of scum runs out of targets because they're really good at it and the other team sucks/ is disabled really quickly, we'd have a pretty solid footing.
So I'll opt for option 1. I still think it unlikely, but hey, that's me.
We saw no kills night 1, and 2 night 2.
If the castle theory is correct, we have a team of X killers gunning for castle 1, and Y killers for castle 2.
Basically, we have 3 options: 0 kills, 1 kill and 2 kills.
If the killers are in contact with one another, the best we'll get is a night with 0 kills, followed by a night with 2 kills (the killers switch target with one another).
In essence, this won't change the speed of the game and is thus the preferred option for a mod to arrange things.
If they are not in contact with one another, the results are going to be completely random. In fact, if one team of scum runs out of targets because they're really good at it and the other team sucks/ is disabled really quickly, we'd have a pretty solid footing.
So I'll opt for option 1. I still think it unlikely, but hey, that's me.
#447
Gait
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:35 AM
With regard to Alkend's reveal, one might further say that 'the specific circumstances' he hinted at mean "if I have a symp who will reveal for me", leaving it all vague enough to go through.
This last ditch reveal at L-1 smacked of desperation.
You are RI until "something" happens.
Why the fuck, if you have a conditional role "over which circumstances you have no control" which makes you a fucking RI until the team accomplishes something, at the moment of the lynch would you save yourself? How likely is this "thing" to happen? How quickly is "it" to happen?
Is an RI worth the attention of a healer on night 2?
Instead, you fucking give your targets, mourn the thing that might not be, speak your suspicions and go down.
And then, when someone tries to save you, you go "I don't believe you", shaft him and then blame him for the mess you created.
Alkend, your play positively disgusts me.
This last ditch reveal at L-1 smacked of desperation.
You are RI until "something" happens.
Why the fuck, if you have a conditional role "over which circumstances you have no control" which makes you a fucking RI until the team accomplishes something, at the moment of the lynch would you save yourself? How likely is this "thing" to happen? How quickly is "it" to happen?
Is an RI worth the attention of a healer on night 2?
Instead, you fucking give your targets, mourn the thing that might not be, speak your suspicions and go down.
And then, when someone tries to save you, you go "I don't believe you", shaft him and then blame him for the mess you created.
Alkend, your play positively disgusts me.
#448
Gait
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:37 AM
Quote
I don't have a lover. I communicate on behalf of a named character with the other castle, who I assume knows who I am, or at least knows the role name. I don't know who they are by alt. They are probably irreplaceable and so should not reveal under any circumstances.
Nice saying that. Did it ever cross your puny little mind that this might be Cast?
#449
Gait
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:41 AM
Personally, I am going to PI Okaros, Barghast and (le sigh) Alkend. Two for having a brain, the last for having a town role. Trake I'd rather not lynch either.
Then there's a bunch of people who have blood on their mind regardless who's blood it is. I don't like that.
I honest to god really don't like Rashan. He was going on and on about dragon sex while a lynch train was coming together, was around for ages but didn't contribute shit and yet had the audicity to ask people to think and put stuff on thread. Coasting through a crisis is being non-commital. being non-commital is scummy.
Vote Rashan.
Then there's a bunch of people who have blood on their mind regardless who's blood it is. I don't like that.
I honest to god really don't like Rashan. He was going on and on about dragon sex while a lynch train was coming together, was around for ages but didn't contribute shit and yet had the audicity to ask people to think and put stuff on thread. Coasting through a crisis is being non-commital. being non-commital is scummy.
Vote Rashan.
#450
Trake
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 10:37 AM
Gait, on 01 August 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:
Personally, I am going to PI Okaros, Barghast and (le sigh) Alkend. Two for having a brain, the last for having a town role. Trake I'd rather not lynch either.
Then there's a bunch of people who have blood on their mind regardless who's blood it is. I don't like that.
I honest to god really don't like Rashan. He was going on and on about dragon sex while a lynch train was coming together, was around for ages but didn't contribute shit and yet had the audicity to ask people to think and put stuff on thread. Coasting through a crisis is being non-commital. being non-commital is scummy.
Vote Rashan.
Then there's a bunch of people who have blood on their mind regardless who's blood it is. I don't like that.
I honest to god really don't like Rashan. He was going on and on about dragon sex while a lynch train was coming together, was around for ages but didn't contribute shit and yet had the audicity to ask people to think and put stuff on thread. Coasting through a crisis is being non-commital. being non-commital is scummy.
Vote Rashan.
Lovely! That is exactly what I was trying to say about Rash last night, I was just too tired to articulate it. I'm going to wait until I check in at break to vote though, don't need to rush anything yet.
#451
Path-Shaper
- Mafia Modgod
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 11:22 AM
It is Day 3. 23 hours and 44 minutes remaining
16 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake
9 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.
1 Vote for Rashan ( Gait )
Players not voted: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake
16 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake
9 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.
1 Vote for Rashan ( Gait )
Players not voted: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake
This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 01 August 2013 - 11:34 AM
Only someone with this much power could make this many frittatas without breaking any eggs.
#452
Rashan
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 11:41 AM
Gait, on 01 August 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:
I honest to god really don't like Rashan. He was going on and on about dragon sex while a lynch train was coming together, was around for ages but didn't contribute shit and yet had the audicity to ask people to think and put stuff on thread. Coasting through a crisis is being non-commital. being non-commital is scummy.
Vote Rashan.
Vote Rashan.
What fucking lynch train was coming together you honest to god retards? People were just voting Alkend because he wasn't lynched on the real day 1. Then I said why I wasn't liking Barghast and started a 2 vote train on him before people lost interest and changed to a low poster.
Thread was dead yesterday, I was trying to make people post anything, even bullshit. Tell me WHAT THE FUCK can I do when there is only 8 pages of posts? While there were already cases on 3 or 4 people too. (Alkend,Desra, Barghy, Lio (?) )
There has to posts on thread, I could have lurked all day yesterday and you on your high horse could not have said anything about me being scummy but I tried to post. Admittedly you sheep think anyone who isn't low posting in a game full of low poster IS scum because HE STANDS OUT.
I did not go on and on about dragon sex. I asked about it and Kalse started something, I tried to have fun. Sorry if it bothers you fucker.
I was definitely not non-committal , I did what I said I would do. I joined a train I was not sure about on L-2 to get a lynch but when Alkend revealed I didn't want to lynch him when I wan't already sure about him. I removed and then Voted Barghast. Somebody I had said 40 hours before I would like to vote for. But when I saw there was no interest in his lynch I joined another train I was not sure of, because 2 days in a row without a lynch is bad news.(obviously)
I know you are town because of something you said at the beginning of the game, and I thought you were pretty smart up until now. I'm not sure anymore.
Something else that bothers me, is that people lynch high-posters early nearly every game and then as why isn't there more spam in the game? why don't people post more? why do we lose always? Can't it be that scum actually lie low at the beginning of games, trying to NOT garner attention?
PS: Yes, I reacted. When I was doing my posting crazy spree last day, I knew people would just start to attack me for posting a lot and being in front of them. I'm trying to be logical and defend myself right now. It is not because I'm scum that I am making a defence post when only a single post is on me. It's because other people have expressed their anger at my posting before this and I don't think it is a good idea to sit around and get lynched while scum are laughing their asses off. Please don't use this ridiculous argument that I made this post "Because only scum defend themselves after ONLY a vote is on them."
Yes, I got defensive. It's because my instincts are telling me I'm a prime candidate today, I recognize that and I understand that this post will do as much bad as good. I just wish most of the players think before voting.
#453
D'riss
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:11 PM
Based on Casts behavior, he was either a shitty townie or a symp. The way he went down, I am left with more questions instead of any certainty.
I'm finding myself agreeing with Okaros's case on Alkend, but Rashan's play has been pretty dodgy.
For now I'll
vote Alkend
I'm finding myself agreeing with Okaros's case on Alkend, but Rashan's play has been pretty dodgy.
For now I'll
vote Alkend
#455
Kalse
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:31 PM
Okaros, on 01 August 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:
If I were to believe Alkend, I have a hard time trying to put together all of the things Alkend has said and done here into a cohesive MO.
So, under pressure on day 2 Alkend reveals a role that it seems cannot give us any useful information through his reveal other than to PI him. It's not as bad as a Healer revealing, but it's fairly close. Why reveal? Just to save your skin? But since you emphasize that it is only under "very specific circumstances" you are implying that it is a weak role. Generally, it is not useful to reveal due to pressure when your reveal and role can't provide any info to town like a Finder can. All it does is identify for scum a roled town. It's generally better not to give scum that information they don't have and keep them more in the dark about the town setup and who is left.
This game is supposed to be low TMDI, so all of those principles still apply.
But instead Alkend felt that revealing his weak role to save his skin is more beneficial for town than keeping quiet. I have two problems with believing this idea:
1. If the reveal helps us, why not reveal fully? Tell us what the "very specific circumstances" are. If you've already revealed as roled town, what's the harm in giving town more information (which ultimately is always what town lacks and needs to win) instead of being coy about it? The scum will try and remove you whether they know the details or whether they just know you are roled town. But you had all day and didn't do so. (And before you make some "I didn't want to get modkilled" defence, a simple read of the OP indicates that revealing your abilities is allowed as long as you change the wording, which should not be difficult, so that is no excuse)
2.
Short of the person I communicate on behalf of coming on thread and saying "Yep, he's cool", there's nothing I can do.
If you are that person, don't be an idiot.
Alkend then discourages his supposed lover from publicly confirming his reveal. Why? He's already revealing to save his skin so clearly Alkend thinks he is important to town. Why be only a PI and not get yourself a VPI or CI? Especially since with no kill last night there's a high chance of a healer - if the healer is convinced you are CI they won't be doubting themselves from healing you every night. Furthermore, whomever is the lover and speaks up to confirm the reveal is not in any more danger because since Alkend has not revealed any mechanics of his ability the person he turns into a lover could just as easily be roled town, RI, or even scum. That person does not need to reveal anything about themselves, just say "I am Alkend's current lover as of last night and what he says is true" and nothing more, which doesn't reveal anything about themselves but does give town more information to work with.
So if Alkend actively believes his revealing is worth it to town, and if there's no harm in someone else confirming it to assuage our doubts, why is he discouraging that from happening?!
So yeah, I have a very hard time believing that Alkend's intentions here match what a player who wants town to win would be doing.
Oh, and also, I can't find any Goros who were affiliated with the Miura clan. But if you were hurriedly doing a google search for a plausible Miura name to fake reveal as, one of the top results might be Miura Goro, which sounds good as long as you don't read too much about him and realize that he is born in the wrong century to be a Sengoku samurai...
Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:
Sigh.
I'm Goro, of the Miura clan.
My ability allows certain members of the two town factions to communicate, under very specific circumstances.
Happy now?
I'm Goro, of the Miura clan.
My ability allows certain members of the two town factions to communicate, under very specific circumstances.
Happy now?
So, under pressure on day 2 Alkend reveals a role that it seems cannot give us any useful information through his reveal other than to PI him. It's not as bad as a Healer revealing, but it's fairly close. Why reveal? Just to save your skin? But since you emphasize that it is only under "very specific circumstances" you are implying that it is a weak role. Generally, it is not useful to reveal due to pressure when your reveal and role can't provide any info to town like a Finder can. All it does is identify for scum a roled town. It's generally better not to give scum that information they don't have and keep them more in the dark about the town setup and who is left.
This game is supposed to be low TMDI, so all of those principles still apply.
But instead Alkend felt that revealing his weak role to save his skin is more beneficial for town than keeping quiet. I have two problems with believing this idea:
1. If the reveal helps us, why not reveal fully? Tell us what the "very specific circumstances" are. If you've already revealed as roled town, what's the harm in giving town more information (which ultimately is always what town lacks and needs to win) instead of being coy about it? The scum will try and remove you whether they know the details or whether they just know you are roled town. But you had all day and didn't do so. (And before you make some "I didn't want to get modkilled" defence, a simple read of the OP indicates that revealing your abilities is allowed as long as you change the wording, which should not be difficult, so that is no excuse)
2.
Alkend, on 31 July 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:
Anthras, on 31 July 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:
So there is no way Alkend can verify his claim?
Short of the person I communicate on behalf of coming on thread and saying "Yep, he's cool", there's nothing I can do.
If you are that person, don't be an idiot.
Alkend then discourages his supposed lover from publicly confirming his reveal. Why? He's already revealing to save his skin so clearly Alkend thinks he is important to town. Why be only a PI and not get yourself a VPI or CI? Especially since with no kill last night there's a high chance of a healer - if the healer is convinced you are CI they won't be doubting themselves from healing you every night. Furthermore, whomever is the lover and speaks up to confirm the reveal is not in any more danger because since Alkend has not revealed any mechanics of his ability the person he turns into a lover could just as easily be roled town, RI, or even scum. That person does not need to reveal anything about themselves, just say "I am Alkend's current lover as of last night and what he says is true" and nothing more, which doesn't reveal anything about themselves but does give town more information to work with.
So if Alkend actively believes his revealing is worth it to town, and if there's no harm in someone else confirming it to assuage our doubts, why is he discouraging that from happening?!
So yeah, I have a very hard time believing that Alkend's intentions here match what a player who wants town to win would be doing.
Oh, and also, I can't find any Goros who were affiliated with the Miura clan. But if you were hurriedly doing a google search for a plausible Miura name to fake reveal as, one of the top results might be Miura Goro, which sounds good as long as you don't read too much about him and realize that he is born in the wrong century to be a Sengoku samurai...
I am agreeable with Okaros here. I don't actually think to believe the reveal and Alkend being around is going to cloud the thread further on. I don't want to get into a situation where we are at D day with Alkend still alive
#456
Gait
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:42 PM
Interesting explosion.<br style="color: rgb(68, 68, 68); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 243, 243);">
The page count is not thick but there have been people putting stuff together.
As for lynching high posters or low posters or crazy people... it matters not. Scum will kill vocal players that are town, scum will kill low posters if they think they're roled town, scum will not kill low posters if they can hide amidst them, and scum will not kill vocal players that they expect are symps. Scum also counts on pissing matches between high posters.
I also think that a lot of the thread is currently worried about Alkend. You'd do well to give your opinion: several players have posted an analysis and given their view. What is yours, what do you think he is, and what do you advocate? What's your alternative?
In that light: I will not vote Alkend today. I think for now he is PI, and while I will examine his every word like an alien species on an autopsy table, the PI status means that lynching him is doing scum's work for them. I am not going to do that.
What Rashan does is what Rashan does. It's damned weird and I for one don't think it benefits town - not sure if it harms it, either. The explanation is at the least decent. I want to look at the Cast train, see where, how and why it kicks off. There's a lot of people coming out of the woodworks and jumping on, and why? Low-posting is one, but the expectation of a connection or trying to use the reveal as legitimization is a whole other thing. It was a cheap trick.
If Alkend was scum and Cast was his symp coming to his rescue, we would have gotten an inno CF anyway.
If Cast wanted to avoid attention or turn a lynch, all he ahd to do was claim work was difficult, drag up a different case and vote on that.
There was weird judgment there.
Quote
Thread was dead yesterday, I was trying to make people post anything, even bullshit. Tell me WHAT THE FUCK can I do when there is only 8 pages of posts? While there were already cases on 3 or 4 people too. (Alkend,Desra, Barghy, Lio (?) )
The page count is not thick but there have been people putting stuff together.
As for lynching high posters or low posters or crazy people... it matters not. Scum will kill vocal players that are town, scum will kill low posters if they think they're roled town, scum will not kill low posters if they can hide amidst them, and scum will not kill vocal players that they expect are symps. Scum also counts on pissing matches between high posters.
I also think that a lot of the thread is currently worried about Alkend. You'd do well to give your opinion: several players have posted an analysis and given their view. What is yours, what do you think he is, and what do you advocate? What's your alternative?
In that light: I will not vote Alkend today. I think for now he is PI, and while I will examine his every word like an alien species on an autopsy table, the PI status means that lynching him is doing scum's work for them. I am not going to do that.
What Rashan does is what Rashan does. It's damned weird and I for one don't think it benefits town - not sure if it harms it, either. The explanation is at the least decent. I want to look at the Cast train, see where, how and why it kicks off. There's a lot of people coming out of the woodworks and jumping on, and why? Low-posting is one, but the expectation of a connection or trying to use the reveal as legitimization is a whole other thing. It was a cheap trick.
If Alkend was scum and Cast was his symp coming to his rescue, we would have gotten an inno CF anyway.
If Cast wanted to avoid attention or turn a lynch, all he ahd to do was claim work was difficult, drag up a different case and vote on that.
There was weird judgment there.
#458
Hanas
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:46 PM
Well it looks like people are going all vote happy with the entire day left. I don't entirely understand how someone can think that Cast was a symp. The thing about symps is that they PI town so you never know if you lynched them. It is better to assume that you lynched town then that you might have lynched a symp. Yesterday did leave us with a completed lynch train. There is also a starter train on Alkend and a attempted train on Barghast.
From the CF's it looks to me like Cast was towny. I put his play down to panicky play because he came on and there was a major train on him. It happens.
Path-Shaper, on 31 July 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:
It is Day 2. 7 hours and 56 minutes remaining
19 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake
10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night.
1 Vote for Rashan ( Cast )
5 Votes for Alkend ( Okaros, Mockra, Gait, Trake, Liosan )
1 Vote for Desra ( Korbas )
10 Votes for Cast ( Barghast, Rashan, Alkend, Tellan, Desra, Anthras, Kalse, D'riss, Hanas, Galain)
Players not voted: Eloth, Jalan
That is a lynch.
Cast is dead. He was Yasuhide Narumasa and Peanutbutta of Arai Castle
scene forthcoming.
19 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake
10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night.
1 Vote for Rashan ( Cast )
5 Votes for Alkend ( Okaros, Mockra, Gait, Trake, Liosan )
1 Vote for Desra ( Korbas )
10 Votes for Cast ( Barghast, Rashan, Alkend, Tellan, Desra, Anthras, Kalse, D'riss, Hanas, Galain)
Players not voted: Eloth, Jalan
That is a lynch.
Cast is dead. He was Yasuhide Narumasa and Peanutbutta of Arai Castle
scene forthcoming.
Path-Shaper, on 01 August 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:
Yoshiatsu still watched from the battlements long after the first skirmishes of the siege had ended. Ladders had been repelled with arrows and large rolling balls of burning pitch. The return arrow fire had cost him some defenders, but the fire arrows which had flown early on in the battle had been quickly extinguished. The attack had been a probing one, he knew. Serious numbers of forces had yet been committed by either side, the Fujiwari were simply testing the defenses and the backbones of those who defended. They should have known better, Yoshiatsu thought. The Miura were fighting for their last hope, there would be no easy victory here for those bastards from Odawara.
---------
General Ota surveyed the new disposition of the Fujiwari troops as they remade their camp in a forward position. As expected, Edo castle's outermost wall, which was really little more than a low fence ringed by a ditch, had not held long, and the retreat into the main portion of the keep had been orderly and well timed. If his troops had been less disciplined, the Fujiwari might have enjoyed slaughter, but the losses on the day were minimal. The loss of that outer defense was not much cause for concern either, as it would do little to help the Fujiwari unless it were to guard their retreat. "And let us hope it comes to that." Ota grimaced.
Night 2 is over.
Desra is dead. He was Kenji Tama and Blend of Arai castle.
Liosan is dead. He was Nobuhisa Genji and twelve of Edo castle.
---------
General Ota surveyed the new disposition of the Fujiwari troops as they remade their camp in a forward position. As expected, Edo castle's outermost wall, which was really little more than a low fence ringed by a ditch, had not held long, and the retreat into the main portion of the keep had been orderly and well timed. If his troops had been less disciplined, the Fujiwari might have enjoyed slaughter, but the losses on the day were minimal. The loss of that outer defense was not much cause for concern either, as it would do little to help the Fujiwari unless it were to guard their retreat. "And let us hope it comes to that." Ota grimaced.
Night 2 is over.
Desra is dead. He was Kenji Tama and Blend of Arai castle.
Liosan is dead. He was Nobuhisa Genji and twelve of Edo castle.
From the CF's it looks to me like Cast was towny. I put his play down to panicky play because he came on and there was a major train on him. It happens.
#459
Gait
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:46 PM
Gait, on 01 August 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:
I want to look at the Cast train, see where, how and why it kicks off. There's a lot of people coming out of the woodworks and jumping on, and why? Low-posting is one, but the expectation of a connection or trying to use the reveal as legitimization is a whole other thing. It was a cheap trick to dump a vote and disappear again.
If Alkend was scum and Cast was his symp coming to his rescue, we would have gotten an inno CF anyway, so why lynch Cast?
If Cast wanted to avoid attention or turn a lynch, all he ahd to do was claim work was difficult, drag up a different case and vote on that.
There was weird judgment there from both Cast, unless he was genuine, and from those jumping onto the train, for not considering the motivation.
If Alkend was scum and Cast was his symp coming to his rescue, we would have gotten an inno CF anyway, so why lynch Cast?
If Cast wanted to avoid attention or turn a lynch, all he ahd to do was claim work was difficult, drag up a different case and vote on that.
There was weird judgment there from both Cast, unless he was genuine, and from those jumping onto the train, for not considering the motivation.
That clarifies a whole lot better how I feel about it yesterday's lynch.
Not being around may have spared me the tension of the moment, though.
In other news, tomorrow I will probably do a single one-line post to keep myself from being mod-killed, as I am without access for the weekend, which I will spend on DIY in and around the house. That's going to suck balls for my access, as the computer room is one of the things being overhauled and re-painted.
#460
Rashan
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:58 PM
Gait, on 01 August 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:
I also think that a lot of the thread is currently worried about Alkend. You'd do well to give your opinion: several players have posted an analysis and given their view. What is yours, what do you think he is, and what do you advocate? What's your alternative?
I do feel that Alkend is telling the truth. I would very much like the conditions on thread to see. If they don't benefit scum of course.
