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New Malazan Readers

#1 User is offline   WhiskeyPhil 

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:18 AM

First, my apologies to anyone who may have started a similar topic, but having had a quick look I didn't find any, so...

Hi all, I joined this site just a week ago and was wondering if any newcomers to the series are having same problem as myself. Problem being: Have only just started GotM I find myself spending more time looking up names, places, creatures, magic, etc. than I do actually reading the book! Is it just me? (I AM 60 yrs old after all, so perhaps it's just my memory, or lack of it, that's giving me a hard time). So would be good to hear if many other members are having as much of a problem as myself, or maybe I should just give up and buy an allotment plot instead. Having said all that, I do adore the book for it's originality etc. and am glad I made the effort to start. I just wonder how long it will take to get to the 'not looking everything up' stage.

This post has been edited by WhiskeyPhil: 09 July 2013 - 10:19 AM

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#2 User is offline   Kaamos 

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:53 AM

View PostWhiskeyPhil, on 09 July 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

I just wonder how long it will take to get to the 'not looking everything up' stage.


Me? Until book 3, after which I felt as if jigsaw puzzles floating on different oceans hopped over a couple of continents and locked together. However, I had heard beforehand that the series would stand very different from your average orphan-farmboy-becomes-a-dazzly-chosen-one clone and require a fair deal of mental adjustment. It does harbor about fifteen gigazillion characters and concepts after all, and I'm not even attempting to learn everything by heart. A demanding brick-stack of literature (I swear, one could build a new chimney with these were they weatherproof), but very much worth the initial trouble.
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#3 User is offline   WhiskeyPhil 

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:04 PM

Just finished 1st five of the "average orphan-farmboy" books and thoroughly enjoyed them so was a little astounded by GotM to say the least. As you say, would be quite impossible to commit it all to memory but ignoring certain facts as you go along would leave one very confused later on. But I'll plough on through it somehow. The one thing I find is as there are millions of other good novels I could be reading instead (without having to check facts every other page or so) I think to myself I could be getting through a load of books in the time it takes to get half-way through a Malazan novel.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". (M. Corleone)

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#4 User is offline   Kaamos 

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:28 PM

Posted Image I like quite a pile of traditional fantasy as well, just a teensy bit tired of some tropes (a farmboy tale can be perfectly enjoyable when written well, however).

Malazan isn't for everyone, so it's perfectly okay to drop it and try something else should things descend on the level of frustrating. I keep breaks and have read about 70-80 other novels of varying lengths since the beginning of GoTM 1,5 years ago, and still have 2 and 2/3 volumes to traverse. There's a portion of me that enjoys the challenge of a complex universe (and Erikson's sturdy language, reminiscent of Stephen R Donaldson), and another that likes "lighter snacks" (YA, Harry Potter...).

This post has been edited by Zorm: 09 July 2013 - 12:34 PM

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#5 User is offline   WhiskeyPhil 

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:56 PM

Yea, 'frustrating' is a fair description. Having just thought about it, I seem to get about 3/4 through these types of novels and think 'I can't be bothered' as is the case with Eye of the World, Thomas Covenant, Game of Thrones, etc., etc.. (must be get'n too old I reckon). As I said earlier, I will plough on through GotM and hope I can stick with it; I agree it must be one helluva read if you can get through it', whether I will or not remains to be seen so 'Watch this space'! Posted Image

This post has been edited by WhiskeyPhil: 09 July 2013 - 03:16 PM

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#6 User is offline   birthSqueeze 

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 03:32 AM

If it helps to encourage you to persist beyond Gardens of the Moon, I will say that by book 3 and beyond the series does increase in quality and readability. The first two books were very challenging to me, but I persisted mainly because all of those original ideas were having a huge influence on my own writing. I have a great memory, and even I had trouble remembering names of characters and places and understanding a lot of what was happening in Gardens of the Moon. I'm glad I persisted. Malazan is now my all time favorite fantasy series.
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#7 User is offline   WhiskeyPhil 

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:24 AM

Thank you my friend, your words ARE very encouraging although book 3 seems a long way off! On this site, it's the kind of reply I should expect really isn't it. So I shall heed your encouraging words and stick at it. Thank you.
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When my days are over, And my time has come to pass,
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#8 User is offline   Salt-Man Z 

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:09 PM

My advice would just be to not get so bogged down in the details. You don't need to know where exactly One Eye Cat is, what the Spar of Andii is, or who the Forkrul Assail are right away. Don't think you need to remember something from book 1 all the way to book 6 to enjoy it; quite the opposite: if you reread (not necessary, but encouraged!) you'll read something in book 1 and think, "Oh yeah, that was in book 6! Wow!"
"Here is light. You will say that it is not a living entity, but you miss the point that it is more, not less. Without occupying space, it fills the universe. It nourishes everything, yet itself feeds upon destruction. We claim to control it, but does it not perhaps cultivate us as a source of food? May it not be that all wood grows so that it can be set ablaze, and that men and women are born to kindle fires?"
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#9 User is offline   WhiskeyPhil 

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:41 PM

Cheers m8, sounds like a brill idea, I'll take your advice (in fact I tried it that way last night). Definitely makes for easier reading and more enjoyment of the book. so you're spot-on there bro. As for re-reading, probably do that someday, gotta get thru 1st read 1st! lol. but with your advice that should be lot easier and more enjoyable. Many thanks.

This post has been edited by WhiskeyPhil: 11 July 2013 - 01:50 PM

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". (M. Corleone)

When my days are over, And my time has come to pass,
I hope I'm buried upside-down, So the world may kiss my ass. (WhiskeyPhil)
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#10 User is offline   birthSqueeze 

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 05:07 AM

View PostSalt-Man Z, on 10 July 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

My advice would just be to not get so bogged down in the details. You don't need to know where exactly One Eye Cat is, what the Spar of Andii is, or who the Forkrul Assail are right away. Don't think you need to remember something from book 1 all the way to book 6 to enjoy it; quite the opposite: if you reread (not necessary, but encouraged!) you'll read something in book 1 and think, "Oh yeah, that was in book 6! Wow!"


What's One Eye Cat? And what's Spar of Andii? Fortunately I know who the Forkrul Assail are. I'm about to start book 9 pretty soon.
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#11 User is offline   Messremb 

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:36 PM

View PostbirthSqueeze, on 12 July 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

View PostSalt-Man Z, on 10 July 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

My advice would just be to not get so bogged down in the details. You don't need to know where exactly One Eye Cat is, what the Spar of Andii is, or who the Forkrul Assail are right away. Don't think you need to remember something from book 1 all the way to book 6 to enjoy it; quite the opposite: if you reread (not necessary, but encouraged!) you'll read something in book 1 and think, "Oh yeah, that was in book 6! Wow!"


What's One Eye Cat? And what's Spar of Andii? Fortunately I know who the Forkrul Assail are. I'm about to start book 9 pretty soon.


One Eye Cat is a place, mentioned in GotM in Circle Breakers memories as where some privateers (Freeman Privateers? My quote-fu is weak today so just running off memory) the met their firey end I think, You've seen the Spar of Andii a couple of times, first in GotM too in the presence of Quick Ben and Hairlock, easily within the first 100 pages
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#12 User is offline   Duikers'Ghost 

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:20 PM

I am currently reading HoC(#4) and I still find myself looking up characters and places and warrens, etc. I even refer back to previous books when I cant remember a specific detail about a certain situation that comes back into play. But I actually prefer this to a more simplified book where you kind of just know everything. ASoFaI is a good example, while they are great books, their complexity compared to MBotF is as childsplay.
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#13 User is offline   Calistan 

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 09:17 PM

I must say iīm pretty confused by all the warnings I read of the first book before my purchase. I havenīt read THAT many fantasy-series in my days, it began with Lotr 15 years ago and 7-8 books by Raymond E. Feist after that and 2 years ago I took up fantasy again with Wheel of Time 10 books in. YES, GotM starts off with many characters and you get throwed straight in with all the action. Maybe it is that Iīve just read Wheel of Time that I donīt find this that difficult and confusing (since WoT have hundreds and hundreds of chars) but the names of the characters and who they are in the beginning really is helpful. I think Steven Erikson is really good at describing characters and the environment. He doesnīt need 2-4 pages to describe the setting and the thoughts of characters etc (like Robert Jordan) ...
This book, wow. 80 pages in and I find it hard to believie I will pick up WoT before Iīm finished with the malazan series. Never before have a book made me sign-up for a forum :thumbup:
Sorry for my not so good english. Peace
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#14 User is offline   Kruppe's snacky cakes 

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 02:41 PM

Yes, GotM gets an undeservedly bad rap. So many awesome moments packed into the prologue and first chapter. I'm up to book 8, and it's still my favorite. Maybe only because it's the shortest in the series...but there's nary a dull moment in the entire book.
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#15 User is offline   Ryyus 

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:49 PM

Hi WhiskeyPhil,

I also joined recently and wished I had found this site sooner Posted Image

I share you pain, so to speak - It took me three times to get through GotM, the first two times I only got around 300 pages or so and put it down. However, there was something about the writing that kept me thinking about the book. I began to research the Internet and discovered that many readers had similar experiences (either stop reading OR just had difficulty getting through the book). The concensus for the most part was to just "hang in there" and the series will hook you. Finally on my third attempt I reached the end of GotM and couldn't wait to continue.

Currently I am reading MoI (~600 pgs in) and all I can say is WOW!

IMHO there are a few things that I think creates trouble for readers (myself included) to writing at this level - EPIC FANTASY, is a word referenced often...

(Past reading includes: Asimov, Tolkien, Herbert , GMMMartin, Rothfuss, Hamilton, Sanderson, Simmons, etc)

For example, while books like "A Song of Fire and Ice" are often included in conversations about recommended reading - I never found George Martins series all that difficult to follow along. (I have read the series up to Feast several times now and have given up waiting for him to finish the series, or at least will not re-read the series until complete. (DAM you George - LOL)

For me, my past reading experiences have kinda trained me in a way - I typically always had a great grasp of the characters and very seldom had to use the authors appendix while I read - AT LEAST NOT AS OFTEN AS I DO READING MALAZAN.

So, as a result of what I am referring to as "my past reading/training experiences" some of the difficulty I experienced in my first two attempts to read GotM, were a result of me wanting (expecting based on past experiences) to know everything that I could at that point of the story (if that makes sense).

Posted Image As I tried to grasp, understand, know all the players, all the plots, sub-plots, start of story arcs etc - my brain got kinda exhausted.

It was only AFTER doing some research via Internet and later finding this FANtastic website (during my reading of Deadhouse Gates), that I settled in for the ride. Adjusting my reading to NOT needing to know so much and just letting the story "flow" I am enjoying the series a lot. In fact, now I find myself re-reading or comparing other books/authors to my new "yardstick" (A Tale of the Malazan Book of the Fallen)
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#16 User is offline   Aertheron 

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 05:51 AM

Personally I have felt like this when I started reading the first books.
However after a while you will know which names to remember and which are just not that interesting.

The books sometimes leech me because of the big emotional response they provide, and therfore I choose to read 1, then read something else, read 1 again, then read something else.
However mostly I just have my website open to either this website or the malazan wikia, to quickly look up, who is this again, who is that again, the warren of X does what now?
And after about 100 pages into the book i'm reading at that moment I don't need to do that anymore and then just read it like any other book.
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