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General speculation (post Cold Days) Spoilers

#1 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 05:35 AM

This topic contains spoilers up to, and including, Cold Days (CD). It also turned out pretty long, so thanks in advance for wading through it.

Just finished a second read of Cold Days. Inspired by Abyss' speculation thread to do one of my own. This is not a review of the book, just a few thoughts about where the series is going. For the record; the book was excellent, but was a mad rush of action from start to finish. Would have appreciated some time with Ebeneazar/Maggie & the Carpenters/the White Council/a proper conversation with Murphy that wasn't interrupted. Doesn't sound like Skin Game is going to offer much room for that.

1. Dresden has been repeatedly described as a "fulcrum". As Abyss noted, he now has connections to a truly impressive number of individuals/organisations/powers. By my count, at least 30. Please take a look at Abyss' thread for more. Does this mean he will be be the locus for an Erikson-style convergence? Final book; final battle: Dresden at the Outer Gates, summoning wave after wave of reinforcements. Can you imagine?

2. Post CD, what is his White Council status? Is he still a Warden? Is he still a member at all? He's now aligned with a non-hostile; non-allied foreign power. It's only rational for them to doubt his independence and agency. Given their behaviour until now and Mab's statements about Molly at end of CD, I think Dresden would be treated with respect/neutrality as part of Winter, but would not be permitted to enter Edinburgh or resume his duties. Luccio/Ramirez status unclear but surely they will still offer unofficial support.

3. "Starborn". This title is being used more and more often. In White Night, Lash explained that his birth was engineered so that he could fight the Outsiders. His birthday is Halloween, the night on which we now learn immortals can be killed. There may also be more to learn about the background of his father, or his maternal grandmother. Could they also have given him leverage over the Outsiders? We've seen several cases of Sidhe/Demon halfbreeds (Lily, Fix, Kincaid). Could Harry be one also? Doubtful on the father as he's almost certainly vanilla mortal, but has Ebeneazar's significant other even been referenced once? Ebeneazer may be a heavy hitter; but we've been told too many times that it's the maternal line that's most important. Who was Harry's mother's mother?

4. A final point on the Outsiders. We've seen Dresden fight them on three major occasions. HWWBehind in flashback. HWWBefore twice in Cold Days. And all three times, Dresden defeated them using mundane means. Not magic. Back in his youth, he blew up a petrol station. In Cold Days, he used his fists and then a rifle. Is this significant? It seems the Outsiders can shrug off magic, and violence from others such as Mac or Thomas; only Dresden can really hurt them and then only physically. Perhaps this is his special ability? Hopefully his abilities are year-round; having significant events happen every Halloween so he can fight back is a serious story constraint. It wasn't his birthday when he killed DuMorne, right?

5. Will Dresden be the Winter Knight forever? Doubtful. It doesn't feel sustainable (will deform the character) to maintain the pressures on his personality and to be subordinate to Mab & Molly for the next 10 or so books. But he's a paraplegic without the mantle and even with wizard healing that will be the case long-term. So to get out he needs another source of power to replace the mantle. Or to be truly healed by another power, which must be feasible given his connections (or he could visit Bruce Wayne's jailhouse chiropractor). He would also need a replacement Knight because you know Harry won't hand off to the next Lloyd Slate. Bottom line; once you take his broken back out of the equation; the tradeoff between power boost and loss of control just doesn't seem worthwhile. Plus we've already had a vivid demonstration of the lengths he'll go to to get out of being Knight.

6. Let's assume he gets another power promotion. What next: the Senior Council? The Gatekeeper? The Blackstaff? The Merlin? The Blackstaff looks most likely, but some bad stuff would have to happen before any of them fell vacant. Also hard to imagine how that would happen politically; he would have to leapfrog all the more senior wizards plus the roles that would most fit his are those held by his strongest allies; they would have to die before he could replace them; but with them dead who would support him against the Merlin? Butcher has also laid some serious groundwork for the Council falling (Dresden commented at one point how it felt like a massive old structure was beginning to topple, slowly but inevitably). Could there be a scenario where Langtry is no longer Merlin and there is still a Council for Harry to take over?

7. What other pieces need to fall into place before the apocalypse? He has close personal allies in many different powers now. Molly as Winter Lady. Thomas/Lara at the White Court. Fix/Sarissa in Summer Court. Marcone as a freeholding Baron. He has all three Swords of the Cross on his side (Sanya plus the pair Murphy holds).
- Surely Murphy will take up a Sword and become a Knight? Or is that too obvious?
- Tied to previous point, but likely the White Council will be shaken up; it could end up much more favourably disposed to him. Martha Liberty has always felt like a placeholder.
- Could Lash/Lasciel somehow be his backdoor to the Denarians in some kind of "enemy of my enemy is my friend; save the universe from the Outsiders" play?
- Believe Mavra could be same for Black Court. (Those last two may be a stretch).
- If Fix were to die, could Dresden become both Winter and Summer Knight? Twice the power and hopefully the behavioural issues cancel out? Plus Fix is now last man standing of the Changeling crew; and they've had nothing but bad luck to date.

8. Murphy is hung up on the longevity difference between her and Harry. I for one am desparate to see them get together. How can she get the powerup? Becoming a Knight won't do the trick. Shiro appeared his true age and developed cancer; there is no suggestion Michael will not have a normal lifespan. The Red Court is no longer an option. White Vampires are born, not made. And we can rule out the Black Court and becoming a Denarian. Perhaps she can settle for the thought that Harry is very very unlikely to make it to a happy retirement and die of natural causes at 300.

9. Wild thought: All (or some) of the Denarian coins will be converted to "good". People such as Murphy can use them for longevity/power boost. Even Forthill gets one. This could be achieved through Lash/Lasciel or some kind of accommodation with Nicodemus (since he is a pragmatist and knows some of his own people are working against him/for the adversary).
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#2 User is offline   Tapper 

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 11:27 AM

Regarding Harry's heritage/ his mother:

Ebenezar's daughter was called Margaret LeFay. Ebenezar (and thus, Harry) has Scottish roots. That opens up an easy to spot connection to Arthurian legend.

The LeFay name itself ties neatly in with Arthur's half-sister, Morgan LeFay: the daughter of Igraine of Cornwall (Arthur's mother) and duke Gorloise of Cornwall.
Interestingly enough, Morgan is a sorceress and in most narratives, she is completely independent of her husband (the King of Wales) or not married at all, where her other sister, Morgause, has a very defined place in the narrative (mother of the Orkney brothers & Arthur's incestuous bastard-son Mordred).
Thus, Morgan's the most fluent/ functional one to tie Dresden into Arthurian legend and can easily be a source of magical power as well.

Harry's youth (raised by a stepfather, unknowing of his heritage, watched over and taught by a wizard) and Arthur's mirror each other in some superficial ways, too.

Further evidence (I guess, it is much more of a guess/ speculation) can be found in Elaine Mallory's name: not only is Arthurian legend filled with Elaines: Lancelots mother and his wife (mother of Galahad the Grail Knight) both carried the name, Arthur had another half-sister by the same name in some narratives. You could say Elaine was that (and more) to him - and the sexual experimentation between them would be echoed by Arthur sleeping with Morgause (which, in the legend, led to the birth of Mordred).
Surname-wise, Mallory is one of Arthur's chroniclers. Funnily enough, Mallory's first name was Thomas. Probably coincidence.

In the same vein, both Harry and Arthur were raised by a stepfather with another (foster) child of the same age (Elaine/Kay), and were taught by a wizard (Ebenezar/Merlin).

I think Butcher wants this to go around full circle, as there seems quite a bit that ties an Arthurian theme to the Dresden files. Biggest clue on that front is perhaps Amorachius, which was in the books confirmed to be Excalibur - currently unwielded and in the possession of Murphy (in Arthurian legend: the Lady of the Lake received Excalibur after Arthur's death, to keep it until Arthur would return from it - and lo and behold, Harry has died and has returned from death and is probably about to fight at the end of times, where a sword of kick-ass magnificence is likely quite the aid).

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Harry ends up being exposed as Arthur's last heir, wielding Amorrachius at some point.

EDIT: dresdenwiki says Margaret was called LeFay by the Sidhe, so I guess that weakens the theory a little bit - her middle name being Gwendolyn might point back to the legend, though - it was used by a medieval author for the name of Merlin's wife.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 04 June 2013 - 11:48 AM

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:28 PM

I want to say Harry will be the new Merlin. Like the very old Merlin. The powerful one!
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#4 User is offline   Tattersail_ 

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:29 PM

I didn't read Tapper's post, until after I posted my response to reading through what you said.

So how about a descendent of Merlin!

This post has been edited by Ganoes Paran: 04 June 2013 - 01:30 PM

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#5 User is offline   vaiski 

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:30 PM

Good post DM.

Regarding Harry's grandmother, Butcher said when asked whether she was significant that 'Well, she was a mortal. That was about it.' (Source)

Also, here's Butcher's reply to question about single person being both Knights.

Butcher has hinted that book 15 will give a new wielder for Fidelacchius, and I too can't really think anyone else than Murphy for it.

This post has been edited by vaiski: 05 June 2013 - 05:34 PM

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#6 User is offline   Vengeance 

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostTapper, on 04 June 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Regarding Harry's heritage/ his mother:

Ebenezar's daughter was called Margaret LeFay. Ebenezar (and thus, Harry) has Scottish roots. That opens up an easy to spot connection to Arthurian legend.

The LeFay name itself ties neatly in with Arthur's half-sister, Morgan LeFay: the daughter of Igraine of Cornwall (Arthur's mother) and duke Gorloise of Cornwall.
Interestingly enough, Morgan is a sorceress and in most narratives, she is completely independent of her husband (the King of Wales) or not married at all, where her other sister, Morgause, has a very defined place in the narrative (mother of the Orkney brothers & Arthur's incestuous bastard-son Mordred).
Thus, Morgan's the most fluent/ functional one to tie Dresden into Arthurian legend and can easily be a source of magical power as well.

Harry's youth (raised by a stepfather, unknowing of his heritage, watched over and taught by a wizard) and Arthur's mirror each other in some superficial ways, too.

Further evidence (I guess, it is much more of a guess/ speculation) can be found in Elaine Mallory's name: not only is Arthurian legend filled with Elaines: Lancelots mother and his wife (mother of Galahad the Grail Knight) both carried the name, Arthur had another half-sister by the same name in some narratives. You could say Elaine was that (and more) to him - and the sexual experimentation between them would be echoed by Arthur sleeping with Morgause (which, in the legend, led to the birth of Mordred).
Surname-wise, Mallory is one of Arthur's chroniclers. Funnily enough, Mallory's first name was Thomas. Probably coincidence.

In the same vein, both Harry and Arthur were raised by a stepfather with another (foster) child of the same age (Elaine/Kay), and were taught by a wizard (Ebenezar/Merlin).

I think Butcher wants this to go around full circle, as there seems quite a bit that ties an Arthurian theme to the Dresden files. Biggest clue on that front is perhaps Amorachius, which was in the books confirmed to be Excalibur - currently unwielded and in the possession of Murphy (in Arthurian legend: the Lady of the Lake received Excalibur after Arthur's death, to keep it until Arthur would return from it - and lo and behold, Harry has died and has returned from death and is probably about to fight at the end of times, where a sword of kick-ass magnificence is likely quite the aid).

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Harry ends up being exposed as Arthur's last heir, wielding Amorrachius at some point.

EDIT: dresdenwiki says Margaret was called LeFay by the Sidhe, so I guess that weakens the theory a little bit - her middle name being Gwendolyn might point back to the legend, though - it was used by a medieval author for the name of Merlin's wife.


I like Harry to be the original Merlin no one knows what happened to the original. He traveled back in time to set everything up for himself and then traveled forward in time past the point of his victory.

:angry:
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#7 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 06:35 PM

I don't know if Harry is smart enough to be the original Merlin. The Demonreach locking stuff was way, way, way beyond anything he's ever tried to do before and intricate - which is not something Dresden usually does.
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#8 User is offline   Vengeance 

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 06:58 PM

View Postamphibian, on 05 June 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

I don't know if Harry is smart enough to be the original Merlin. The Demonreach locking stuff was way, way, way beyond anything he's ever tried to do before and intricate - which is not something Dresden usually does.


It is beyond the Harry now. But the Harry after all of this is said and done? Look at how far he has already came.
How many fucking people do I have to hammer in order to get that across.
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#9 User is offline   Obdigore 

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 04:39 AM

Harry is going to become the gatekeeper after Rashid gets hurt and he will also wield ammorachius. In the final apocalyptical trilogy, he and the outsiders will cause such devastation with magic that all the worldly forces will conspire to sent him back in time, where he becomes the original Merlin, and this time he founds the council laws with an intent to help humanity, not just restrict the council, in the hopes that this creates a stronger group to fight against the outsiders.

Or, you know, he sacrifices himself to use his soul to seal the gate for a thousand years while the forces of reality rebuild to attempt to throw back the outsider invasion once more.

Whichever.
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Posted 06 June 2013 - 04:40 PM

Oh, yes. Harry will go back in time and become the once and future Burger King (owner).

You heard it here first.
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#11 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:54 AM

View Postamphibian, on 06 June 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

Oh, yes. Harry will go back in time and become the once and future Burger King (owner).

You heard it here first.


Ha.
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#12 User is offline   Tapper 

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 01:28 PM

View PostVengeance, on 05 June 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

View PostTapper, on 04 June 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Regarding Harry's heritage/ his mother:

Ebenezar's daughter was called Margaret LeFay. Ebenezar (and thus, Harry) has Scottish roots. That opens up an easy to spot connection to Arthurian legend.

The LeFay name itself ties neatly in with Arthur's half-sister, Morgan LeFay: the daughter of Igraine of Cornwall (Arthur's mother) and duke Gorloise of Cornwall.
Interestingly enough, Morgan is a sorceress and in most narratives, she is completely independent of her husband (the King of Wales) or not married at all, where her other sister, Morgause, has a very defined place in the narrative (mother of the Orkney brothers & Arthur's incestuous bastard-son Mordred).
Thus, Morgan's the most fluent/ functional one to tie Dresden into Arthurian legend and can easily be a source of magical power as well.

Harry's youth (raised by a stepfather, unknowing of his heritage, watched over and taught by a wizard) and Arthur's mirror each other in some superficial ways, too.

Further evidence (I guess, it is much more of a guess/ speculation) can be found in Elaine Mallory's name: not only is Arthurian legend filled with Elaines: Lancelots mother and his wife (mother of Galahad the Grail Knight) both carried the name, Arthur had another half-sister by the same name in some narratives. You could say Elaine was that (and more) to him - and the sexual experimentation between them would be echoed by Arthur sleeping with Morgause (which, in the legend, led to the birth of Mordred).
Surname-wise, Mallory is one of Arthur's chroniclers. Funnily enough, Mallory's first name was Thomas. Probably coincidence.

In the same vein, both Harry and Arthur were raised by a stepfather with another (foster) child of the same age (Elaine/Kay), and were taught by a wizard (Ebenezar/Merlin).

I think Butcher wants this to go around full circle, as there seems quite a bit that ties an Arthurian theme to the Dresden files. Biggest clue on that front is perhaps Amorachius, which was in the books confirmed to be Excalibur - currently unwielded and in the possession of Murphy (in Arthurian legend: the Lady of the Lake received Excalibur after Arthur's death, to keep it until Arthur would return from it - and lo and behold, Harry has died and has returned from death and is probably about to fight at the end of times, where a sword of kick-ass magnificence is likely quite the aid).

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Harry ends up being exposed as Arthur's last heir, wielding Amorrachius at some point.

EDIT: dresdenwiki says Margaret was called LeFay by the Sidhe, so I guess that weakens the theory a little bit - her middle name being Gwendolyn might point back to the legend, though - it was used by a medieval author for the name of Merlin's wife.


I like Harry to be the original Merlin no one knows what happened to the original. He traveled back in time to set everything up for himself and then traveled forward in time past the point of his victory.

:whistle:

I thought at one point Ebenezar might have been the original Merlin. I guess he's not old enough, though.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 10 June 2013 - 01:29 PM

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#13 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 11:15 PM

You know, if all this Arthurian stuff really is the key (and it seems it probably will be, however it falls out in the details), that might actually make all of Harry's repetitive "I believe in chivalry, so sue me" baggage a bit less silly. Maybe.
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