[Shadow]

I find it somewhat curious how much of a pass people seem willing to give Gamelon, particularly given he's outright said "I cannot care less about what happens on thread".

Atrahal for example:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Gamelon, on 05 June 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Gamelon, on 05 June 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Gamelon, on 05 June 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

I'm here and thanks to the small amount of posts on thread caught up.
Will be on and off for some time.*








*I cannot care less about what happens on thread, but unfortunately I don't like to be mod-killed and ruin the game so I will post and hope you lynch me or I will get nked.

Or kept around until the end to win the game for town? Pretty please!

Fuck off.

What I meant to say grumpy pants is that IF you are around end game AND you are town, would you do your best to help us win then? Otherwise what's the point?

Is end game after friday? then yes.

That's all I need to know. I would have just voted you off today otherwise.

You're willing to give him a pass until Friday on the vague promise that if he was around at the end of the game he'd try and be useful?

[Tiamatha]

Another point, before I begin my reread:

In this game, I think the crucial topics for town are as follows:

1 ) Why were there no NK's last night? Are we witnessing failed or absent kill attempts?

2 ) Who is the symp? If we can identify someone signalling 2 people (or signalling one and protecting another from a lynch), we may have a route to linking up our scum team. I know this is what we've been attempting, but it bears repeating given some of the bunny trails we are wont to wander off on.

3 ) What playstyles are the killers using? Are we dealing with lowposters, good townies, or some combination of the two. While this is mere speculation, I think that the best and worst of us need heavy scrutiny. I was burned by the lowposting scum in 101, and thus, my focus this game is on taking down those useless players first. Moreover, I haven't seen any extremely helpful, smooth and pure townies this game to make me suspicious of scum lurking in the higher post counts.

[Tiamatha]

Shadow, on 05 June 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

I find it somewhat curious how much of a pass people seem willing to give Gamelon, particularly given he's outright said "I cannot care less about what happens on thread".

Atrahal for example:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Gamelon, on 05 June 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Gamelon, on 05 June 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 05 June 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Gamelon, on 05 June 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

I'm here and thanks to the small amount of posts on thread caught up.
Will be on and off for some time.*








*I cannot care less about what happens on thread, but unfortunately I don't like to be mod-killed and ruin the game so I will post and hope you lynch me or I will get nked.

Or kept around until the end to win the game for town? Pretty please!

Fuck off.

What I meant to say grumpy pants is that IF you are around end game AND you are town, would you do your best to help us win then? Otherwise what's the point?

Is end game after friday? then yes.

That's all I need to know. I would have just voted you off today otherwise.

You're willing to give him a pass until Friday on the vague promise that if he was around at the end of the game he'd try and be useful?

I agree that Gamelon is a lowposter that needs lynching. I should have had him on my list.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 16 hours and 21 minutes remaining

13 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Skintick, Tholen, Tiamatha

7 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

1 vote Atrahal (Shadow)
2 votes Skintick (Atrahal, Tiamantha)

Players not voted: Cast, Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Skintick, Tholen

[Karatallid]

Tiamatha, on 05 June 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

Another point, before I begin my reread:

In this game, I think the crucial topics for town are as follows:

1 ) Why were there no NK's last night? Are we witnessing failed or absent kill attempts?

2 ) Who is the symp? If we can identify someone signalling 2 people (or signalling one and protecting another from a lynch), we may have a route to linking up our scum team. I know this is what we've been attempting, but it bears repeating given some of the bunny trails we are wont to wander off on.

3 ) What playstyles are the killers using? Are we dealing with lowposters, good townies, or some combination of the two. While this is mere speculation, I think that the best and worst of us need heavy scrutiny. I was burned by the lowposting scum in 101, and thus, my focus this game is on taking down those useless players first. Moreover, I haven't seen any extremely helpful, smooth and pure townies this game to make me suspicious of scum lurking in the higher post counts.

Any discussion around point 1 is WIFOM and completely useless. No one knows, throwing random theories out is not helpful in the least to town.

[Tiamatha]

Ok, so if this has been done before, sorry (and deal with it). Rereading, here is a signalling exchange that stands out like a flaming brand:

Atrahal, on 03 June 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Fax. Shadow Fax. Faxed Shadow. Max Ammo.



See what I did there?

Hood, on 03 June 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

no, are you starting the coded messages already?

That signup sheet looks like it's going to be an excellent time

Hood, on 03 June 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

I disagree, he was answering questions, we almost had a conversation going

Until you sent a shadow fax

Atrahal, on 03 June 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Hood, on 03 June 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

I disagree, he was answering questions, we almost had a conversation going

Until you sent a shadow fax

I see what you did there and I like it!

Atrahal, on 03 June 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 03 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Hood, on 03 June 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

I disagree, he was answering questions, we almost had a conversation going

Until you sent a shadow fax

It's true. Unfortunate really, guess I'll just go back to shutting up. Seems the only way to actually play this game with you lot.

So the game the last two games have seen scum win when they low post and scum lose when they had a high post count. So what are you saying here?


If PS calls a spade a spade and then you come and say that you "think" the spade is a spade then I am going to think you are a retard. I'd prefer you to post and contribute, that's great. Just don't be a retard.

I feel like Atrahal is acting the symp and Shadow is accepting the signals. In fact that discussion over scum playstyle with permission given to low post or "post and contribute" seemed a little baldfaced to me. So I'm continuing to watch these two on my reread.

[Tiamatha]

Tiamatha, on 05 June 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

Ok, so if this has been done before, sorry (and deal with it). Rereading, here is a signalling exchange that stands out like a flaming brand:

Atrahal, on 03 June 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Fax. Shadow Fax. Faxed Shadow. Max Ammo.



See what I did there?

Hood, on 03 June 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

no, are you starting the coded messages already?

That signup sheet looks like it's going to be an excellent time

Hood, on 03 June 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

I disagree, he was answering questions, we almost had a conversation going

Until you sent a shadow fax

Atrahal, on 03 June 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Hood, on 03 June 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

I disagree, he was answering questions, we almost had a conversation going

Until you sent a shadow fax

I see what you did there and I like it!

Atrahal, on 03 June 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 03 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Hood, on 03 June 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

I disagree, he was answering questions, we almost had a conversation going

Until you sent a shadow fax

It's true. Unfortunate really, guess I'll just go back to shutting up. Seems the only way to actually play this game with you lot.

So the game the last two games have seen scum win when they low post and scum lose when they had a high post count. So what are you saying here?


If PS calls a spade a spade and then you come and say that you "think" the spade is a spade then I am going to think you are a retard. I'd prefer you to post and contribute, that's great. Just don't be a retard.

I feel like Atrahal is acting the symp and Shadow is accepting the signals. In fact that discussion over scum playstyle with permission given to low post or "post and contribute" seemed a little baldfaced to me. So I'm continuing to watch these two on my reread.

Ok, first mistake in reread recognized. I was mixing up HP for Shadow. Don't waste posts pointing this out to me...

[Hood's Path]

why are you quoting me and referring to Shadow?

and wouldn't Atrahal be telling Kara it's OK to low post?


EDIT: too late to not point it out, I'm afraid

This post has been edited by Hood's Path: 05 June 2013 - 06:26 PM

[Tiamatha]

Hood, on 05 June 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

why are you quoting me and referring to Shadow?

and wouldn't Atrahal be telling Kara it's OK to low post?


EDIT: too late to not point it out, I'm afraid

Read up before posting.... (e.g. see my last post)

grumbles....

EDIT: Stupid edits. I agree with Obdi.

This post has been edited by Tiamatha: 05 June 2013 - 06:27 PM

[Hood's Path]

Tiamatha, on 05 June 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

Hood, on 05 June 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

why are you quoting me and referring to Shadow?

and wouldn't Atrahal be telling Kara it's OK to low post?


EDIT: too late to not point it out, I'm afraid

Read up before posting.... (e.g. see my last post)

grumbles....

don't mistakenly accuse me of silliness and I won't even have to...

Why would I even mention that Atrahal is signalling if I were to be engaged in responding? That would be stupid

[Tiamatha]

Shadow, on 03 June 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

Desra, on 03 June 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

Shadow, on 03 June 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Vote Desra

Desra, on 03 June 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

So other then a random lynch on the killers we have to look for someone symping two players. On the plus side if they don't know each other there is a chance they might kill each other. That would go down as the most epic fail play if they did that.

This post does not benefit the town. It tells us what we might want to look for. It also tells the scum. Why point that out at this stage? Instead of say, waiting until it's actually relevant? This warns the scum of what we might be looking for, and how not to play. It's a post that's more beneficial to a scum player than a town one.

Vote shadow


For being a slow fucking reader.

And your wrong that information does help town. Why because Scum has to play that way if they want a shot at winning. Scum already knows that town is looking for them HOW couldn't they (unless they have never heard of mafia or played the fucking game). Telling them how we are going to do it isn't going to change anything. Plus I want the scum to be hesitant to kill because they might hit the other scum. I want scum to want to try to figure out who there symp is so that they can look to him for signals to make sure that they don't kill the other scum. I want scum to have to do that. WHY you ask would I want scum to do that. BECAUSE that is going to give us clues to find the symp and then to find scum or to find scum then find the symp then find the other scum. Town wants clues. Town needs clues.

That doesn't explain how it helps town at all at this point, it's just a collection of vaguely related theory. If it doesn't change anything, how does it help town?

The information isn't relevant at this stage, why not actually wait until you see someone who may be symping and then bring it up? Does town really need it pointed out to them that maybe we ought to keep an eye out for symping?

Whereas a master might want to warn their symp, particularly since there is always the chance they have an inexperienced symp.

It may not change the basics of how scum play, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit scum, and it doesn't mean it wouldn't affect how they play this game, being more or less cautious. If a master is worried in this game about symping, because he believes it to be a risk, and wants to warn the symp that town might be particularly alert to it, the only way he can get that message out is on thread.

Edit: Grammar

Though this quote seems to support a link between Atrahal and Shadow (talking about what a master would be telling his symp, etc.)

[Tiamatha]

Hood, on 05 June 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 05 June 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

Hood, on 05 June 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

why are you quoting me and referring to Shadow?

and wouldn't Atrahal be telling Kara it's OK to low post?


EDIT: too late to not point it out, I'm afraid

Read up before posting.... (e.g. see my last post)

grumbles....

don't mistakenly accuse me of silliness and I won't even have to...

Why would I even mention that Atrahal is signalling if I were to be engaged in responding? That would be stupid

Um, why are you harping on this. I retracted my statement about you. Either comment on my reread thoughts (the unretracted ones) or leave me alone.

[Karatallid]

Tiamatha, on 05 June 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Hood, on 05 June 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 05 June 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

Hood, on 05 June 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

why are you quoting me and referring to Shadow?

and wouldn't Atrahal be telling Kara it's OK to low post?


EDIT: too late to not point it out, I'm afraid

Read up before posting.... (e.g. see my last post)

grumbles....

don't mistakenly accuse me of silliness and I won't even have to...

Why would I even mention that Atrahal is signalling if I were to be engaged in responding? That would be stupid

Um, why are you harping on this. I retracted my statement about you. Either comment on my reread thoughts (the unretracted ones) or leave me alone.

[Hood's Path]

sorry, I didn't see you retract

how do you link Shadow & Atrahal with this quote in #351? seems like you are back in the quarrel from yesterday

[Tiamatha]

Hood, on 05 June 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

sorry, I didn't see you retract

how do you link Shadow & Atrahal with this quote in #351? seems like you are back in the quarrel from yesterday

The quote is from that quarrel. However, if Atrahal is a symp, Shadow is a master, Shadow may want to make it clear to Atrahal to stop symping him, and using the context of the quarrel to hide this warning. A stretch, but just something I noted.

And the arguments from pages 2-3 were a complete waste of time....

[Tiamatha]

Interesting snippet of three sequential posts on page 5. Shadow harps on HP and Kara, but votes Cast, and Atrahal, in the meantime, agrees with Shadow on the case on HP/Kara. Just another strange interaction. Not sure what to make of it.

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Hood, on 04 June 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

sure

I am kindly disposed toward everyone at this stage in the game, no reason to be otherwise. I don't feel that discussing game mechanics is "pointless" when anyone could need clarification, or some input based on experience could be relevant. Don't you have odd intuitive thoughts (however wild or incorrect) during games that you want to sound out?

I will agree that D-Day talk on the first is presumptive, and not too helpful. I usually associate that with a call to arms for town or fearmongering if by scum. I cannot judge of someone is post padding for its own sake. There is no rule about each post containing game material so if I want to talk about my lunch, you must deal with it.

It's hard to say why someone's contribution rate fluctuates

The thing I dislike about the discussion of the game mechanics is that it seems very contrived in this case, because I don't feel any clarification was at all needed.

There is no rule about posts being game relevant. What I dislike about posts like the D-day one is that it makes a player look like they are trying to be helpful, like they aren't coasting, while not actually putting any content out on thread.

Atrahal, on 04 June 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Okay when you put it that way Shadow it looks fucking bad. Killers discussing their roles with other killers possibly, a kind of hidden signal through speculation?

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Remove vote

Vote Coast Cast

For providing no meaningful contribution.

If you disagree with a case, you could expand on that more than "I don't see anything there". At least try. Do you think the person is genuinely trying to be helpful, do you think the discussion is useful to have, what?

Do you have any of your own suspicions?

[Tiamatha]

And then this, almost like a 180 in perspective after pushing the HP/Kara link. It's worth noting that the train is currently on him and that Atrahal is questioning the worthwhileness of lynching Shadow.

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

Anyhow, with that I'm out for a bit. I should be back in time for a lynch, but can't guarantee it.

Happy enough with my vote. There are several coasters, but Cast seems to lean more towards willful than just not around.

Don't feel I can say anything else in defence against the votes. Signalling cases are based on what someone else has done, and actually being involved always gets more heat, particularly on day one. It's the quintessential stupid town lynch, and hopefully we avoid it.

[Tiamatha]

Shadow, on 05 June 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

Hanas, on 04 June 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

Hanas, on 04 June 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

13 players. 2 killers. 1 guard. 1 healer.
No NKs
Very good guessing. 1 or both killers abstaining. Or mod shenanigans.
Day 2 looks to be fun. Where's the popcorn?

Yeah, really unsure what to make of it.

It's possible they kill on alternate nights for example. It has been the case before anyway, not sure how likely it is.

Co-ordinated withhold? Or just both independently deciding to, it's a feasible strategy.

Really unsure.

Would you care to speculate on how the coordination took place? Just when I was thinking you might not be scum.

Via signal presumably. Would be worth checking back to see if there is anything that didn't look suspect at the time that could suggest something like that. Dunno, just throwing possibilities out there really and it's one of them. Dunno what's scummy about it tbh?

I'm hesitant to jump on the possibility of roled players being successful, because it's a risky thing to put weight on for town, and there are other possibilities.

Yeah, agree with Hanas here. Shadow looks like he is coordinating, again...

[Hanas]

Tiamatha said:

1370459679[/url]' post='1060478']

Shadow said:

1370394518[/url]' post='1060246']

Hanas said:

1370389262[/url]' post='1060238']

Shadow said:

1370385901[/url]' post='1060233']

Hanas said:

1370384608[/url]' post='1060228']
13 players. 2 killers. 1 guard. 1 healer.
No NKs
Very good guessing. 1 or both killers abstaining. Or mod shenanigans.
Day 2 looks to be fun. Where's the popcorn?

Yeah, really unsure what to make of it.

It's possible they kill on alternate nights for example. It has been the case before anyway, not sure how likely it is.

Co-ordinated withhold? Or just both independently deciding to, it's a feasible strategy.

Really unsure.

Would you care to speculate on how the coordination took place? Just when I was thinking you might not be scum.

Via signal presumably. Would be worth checking back to see if there is anything that didn't look suspect at the time that could suggest something like that. Dunno, just throwing possibilities out there really and it's one of them. Dunno what's scummy about it tbh?

I'm hesitant to jump on the possibility of roled players being successful, because it's a risky thing to put weight on for town, and there are other possibilities.

Yeah, agree with Hanas here. Shadow looks like he is coordinating, again...

I was pointing out that his "coordinated withhold" was a load of bollocks. And that made me re-think his place in mental who is what file.

Tia, as long as you're looking at Atrahal go back and look at the Atrahal/Gamelon exchange. I'm probably seeing things, but...
Posts 130-136

[Tiamatha]

Ok, done with my reread. So as you can tell, I'm starting to lean Shadow. Here are my reasons summed up:

1 ) There was a potential signalling exchange between Atrahal and Shadow at the very beginning of the game.

2 ) Throughout the game, Shadow has made sweeping statements about the uselessness of people discussing game mechanics, claiming that is a methodology used by scum to communicate. And yet, Shadow does this frequently, even using words like "coordinate," which makes me suspicious that he is trying to accomplish just that.

3 ) Atrahal has for the most part discounted cases on Shadow (particularly during day 1), and on day two gently prods Shadow (distancing?), even dropping the first vote on him. However, first votes are not lethal and often act as a good way to claim, "hey, I'm not linked to that player! I even built a case and voted on him! See see see!"

4 ) Shadow, for all his forcefulness and bluster, doesn't stick with his own cases. He pushes Kara/HP and yet at the same time votes Cast a few posts later. Scum do not care where their votes fall, as long as it isn't on other scum. And even though there is a higher chance of scum hitting one another this game, I'd bet that Cast is low on Shadow's list as potential fellow killer.

These are the big reasons I see Shadow as a potential killer. There are of course other softer reasons (a near train on Shadow failing on day 1, Shadow's willingness to encourage pissing matches), but I feel that the 4 points above are the most solid.

I really wanted to start poking lowposters and rooting out hiding scum within their ranks, but I have convinced myself in my reread that Shadow needs to be lynched to make sure he isn't the other type of scum player, namely a talker.

Remove Vote

Vote Shadow.