[Karatallid]

Atrahal, on 04 June 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 04 June 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

Are people taking Shadow seriously? Given the game setup, D-Day is a lot sooner than most M&P games I have participated in and/or modded, so I wanted it to be clear that we needed to be on our toes. Mafia is a game of math and numbers first, so saying that there is no point in discussing the math and numbers is a load of crap. I think Shadow might be so intent on pushing us away from looking at that, so that scum can get a win quickly.

This, combined with the possible signalling between Shadow and Shelly, makes me want to

vote Shadow


Maybe it's a little OMGUS, but seriously, the load of shit that you're trying to shovel in front of us and call good Mafia theory is ridiculous.

Shelly?

My bad, wrong dragon. I meant Silchas Ruin.

[Atrahal]

Also Kara you think it is a viable option of us leaving the bottom 4/5 posters alive to fuck us over again like the last few games?

[Desra]

It is another shit show at work. I should be able to get on and get caught up in a hour or so.

[Atrahal]

To add to that if you think Shadow and Silchas are signalling each other then why not get rid of useless Silchas? I'll vote Shadows way if we'd come down to the last few hours and we need a lynch but I'd hate for this game to go quiet at a later stage because town and the killers offed the more vocal players. Why would scum kill any of the lower "hiding"players? When they can just hide in there themselves.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1. 5 hours and 40 minutes remaining

15 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Silchas Ruin, Skintick, Tholen, Tiamatha, Venesara

8 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Cast ( Shadow )
1 Vote for Kara (Silchas)
3 Vote for Shadow (Desra, Korlat, Karatallid)
1 Vote for Silchas (Atrahal)
1 Vote for Atrahal (Cast)

Players not voted: Cast, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Skintick, Tholen, Tiamatha, Venesara

[Karatallid]

Atrahal, on 04 June 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

To add to that if you think Shadow and Silchas are signalling each other then why not get rid of useless Silchas? I'll vote Shadows way if we'd come down to the last few hours and we need a lynch but I'd hate for this game to go quiet at a later stage because town and the killers offed the more vocal players. Why would scum kill any of the lower "hiding"players? When they can just hide in there themselves.

I think that if someone is signalling to someone in that pair, it's Silchas signalling to Shadow. Shadow was the first to bring up the whole "no spoilers please" thing, and Silchas chimed in that he hadn't read past DG. If Silchas is signalling Shadow, that makes Silchas the symp. I have no issues with voting Silchas if we can make a train go that way, but for now, I'm happy to vote out someone who is trying to say that everything that has come out of my mouth is useless crap, when really, the shit coming out of his is what is useless.

[Hood's Path]

this is about the "shadow fax" post right?

[Tiamatha]

Ok done reading. Reactions:

1 ) I think discussing the OP is an indeterminate method of differentiating scum or town. D-Day discussions and arguments over scum/town role dynamics are par for the course. I will not be throwing my attention on that case.

2 ) The borderline meta discussion based on how far game veterans have progressed in the MBoF series is interesting, but not altogether a very solid way of sussing out scum playing as newbies. I seem to recall CocoReturns took forever to read the last book of the series, so basing cases on peoples' progress (or lack thereof) through the series does not seem all that helpful.

3 ) Pissing matches, while enjoyable at times to read and helpful in shoring up one's sense of intellectual superiority to "those fools," turns me away from suspecting people as scum. Statistically speaking, lynches of noisy and/or annoying players on day 1 usually ends up CFing inno not scum.

4 ) The day's progression toward a lynch is worrisome. We have a baby-size train on Shadow with scattered votes elsewhere and around 5 hours to go. I think we should try to break the norm and nail down one of the low posters, preferably one who has just posted to stay in the game (e.g. GL, Tholen, Skintick, Hanas, or Gamelon) but doesn't seem like they are tempting a modkill (e.g. Venesara).

Gaylain Lord seems the most "useful" of the low posters, actually providing thoughts and criticisms, but reinforcing the sentiment that the noisy players probably contain a symp/killer pair (which I disagree with obviously)

Tholen and Skintick promised to return with more in a couple to a few hours but have not returned (these would be my top choices for lynch candidates).

Hanas seems to take on the HOIFOY grumbling technique, gruffly saying we should kill off the stupid ones but otherwise not contributing.

Gamelon states he will be a low poster, answers a question and disappears. This is also very suspicious imho.

So, I think I will go with:

Vote Skintick

[Shadow]

Hood, on 04 June 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

this is about the "shadow fax" post right?

No.

I told Kara not to post spoilers in the mafia segment. He said he doesn't think anyone playing wouldn't have read past MoI. Silchas came along and said they hadn't read MoI.

Edit: Clarity

This post has been edited by Shadow: 04 June 2013 - 05:12 PM

[Shadow]

For the record, I'm happy to vote off any of the coasters, hence my vote on Cast. I'd also be happy to vote Desra for pointlessly pointing out we should be looking for sympage, Kara for pointlessly pointing out D-Day and generally trying to seem more helpful than he has been, and possibly HP for initiating a whole pointless discussion via completely stupid questions.

[Shadow]

Karatallid, on 04 June 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

Given the game setup, D-Day is a lot sooner than most M&P games I have participated in and/or modded, so I wanted it to be clear that we needed to be on our toes. Mafia is a game of math and numbers first, so saying that there is no point in discussing the math and numbers is a load of crap. I think Shadow might be so intent on pushing us away from looking at that, so that scum can get a win quickly.

My point is that it was completely unnecessary for town to do. Is the D-Day number currently relevant? What's pointing it out going to do? Make us more on our toes? What, cause if we didn't know D-Day wasn't as far away as it is in some games, we'd just not try and find scum or something?

I dislike people bringing up information that looks useful but is currently useless. It is that simple.

The D-Day number is not currently relevant. Moreover, it's not something town should even need pointed out.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1. 5 hours and 51 minutes remaining

15 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Silchas Ruin, Skintick, Tholen, Tiamatha, Venesara

8 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Skintick ( Tiamatha )
1 Vote for Cast ( Shadow )
3 Votes for Shadow ( Desra, Korlat, Karatallid )
1 Vote for Silchas Ruin ( Atrahal )
1 Vote for Karatallid ( Silchas Ruin )
1 Vote for Atrahal ( Cast )

Players not voted: Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Skintick, Tholen, Venesara

[Shadow]

Anyhow, with that I'm out for a bit. I should be back in time for a lynch, but can't guarantee it.

Happy enough with my vote. There are several coasters, but Cast seems to lean more towards willful than just not around.

Don't feel I can say anything else in defence against the votes. Signalling cases are based on what someone else has done, and actually being involved always gets more heat, particularly on day one. It's the quintessential stupid town lynch, and hopefully we avoid it.

[Tholen]

ok, i am here and gonna catch up.

[Hanas]

I'm not interested in talkers on day 1. We need them.

I could go for a Tholen except that there were a couple of people who said they'd be low posting the first part of the week.

I should be around the rest of the day.

Gamelon and Atrahal discussing the sound of music twitched a bit. But if you look for a signal, you'll find one whether it exists or not.

[Desra]

Karatallid, on 04 June 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

Are people taking Shadow seriously? Given the game setup, D-Day is a lot sooner than most M&P games I have participated in and/or modded, so I wanted it to be clear that we needed to be on our toes. Mafia is a game of math and numbers first, so saying that there is no point in discussing the math and numbers is a load of crap. I think Shadow might be so intent on pushing us away from looking at that, so that scum can get a win quickly.

This, combined with the possible signalling between Shadow and Shelly, makes me want to

vote Shadow


Maybe it's a little OMGUS, but seriously, the load of shit that you're trying to shovel in front of us and call good Mafia theory is ridiculous.

I disagree with Shadow on a lot of stuff. But I am finding him a less suspicious. There are other potential signaling that interest me more. For now

Remove Vote

[Silchas Ruin]

Hood, on 04 June 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Hello other 4 anons.

hello, one of them is me, I'll be leaving my browser on at odd intervals for the duration. hope that doesn't inconvenience anyone



I don't think you have to worry about getting lynched for talking a lot, somebody has to do it after all.

One of those has been me. I'm home and caught up now.

Atrahal, on 04 June 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

I am not going to discount vocal players as scum. You are right in some ways Shadow, higher posters have more information to judge whether they are worthy of a lynch or not. The very low posters should not be here come the end of the game because they are not "within" the game, they don't get a feel for players and posts. Silchas has more posts than the lower posters but useless content and a joke vote. In fact, a joke vote when the rest of his posts are shit and retarded. What is the point in that, at least everyone else has voted for a better reason, (from what I can remember anyway). I could see you or desra being a symp, maybe even a killer but there should be plenty of time to work that out. With you contributing I'd prefer to go for someone who is low key and useless.

I think basing a signalling case on who's read books and who hasn't falls under joke vote just as much as a deep and thoroughly justifiable hatred of the French. In other words, neither vote has any basis in the game itself.

Karatallid, on 04 June 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

Are people taking Shadow seriously? Given the game setup, D-Day is a lot sooner than most M&P games I have participated in and/or modded, so I wanted it to be clear that we needed to be on our toes. Mafia is a game of math and numbers first, so saying that there is no point in discussing the math and numbers is a load of crap. I think Shadow might be so intent on pushing us away from looking at that, so that scum can get a win quickly.

This, combined with the possible signalling between Shadow and Shelly, makes me want to

vote Shadow


Maybe it's a little OMGUS, but seriously, the load of shit that you're trying to shovel in front of us and call good Mafia theory is ridiculous.

Thoroughly disagree with the premise that Mafia is a math first game. Its a discussion first game, exactly the same as debate club at a university. There's numbers involved, just as in a debate club you have 4 rounds to posit-rebut-rebut-summarize, but the very basic math of (town>scum = game on) vs. (scum>town = game over) doesn't make it any more a math first game. Just as in a debate the meat and potatoes (I'm so clever) of the game is in the discussion and the dissection thereof. In fact, its the scum that are typically more interested in the numbers than the discussion. All that to say, my vote is no longer just a joke vote.

EDIT: Spelling and clarity.

This post has been edited by Silchas Ruin: 04 June 2013 - 06:19 PM

[Silchas Ruin]

Ok, so after 30 minutes of reading and 10 minutes of typing/thinking, I'm gonna have a shower. If anyone wants my opinion on anything you'll have to wait an hour.

[Tholen]

OK, caught up and here are my thoughts. (to those who didn't like my modkill avoidance post...fuck off. I have time to play this game, I just didn't have it until now. It does town no good to have me lynched so I wanted to make sure I got on and avoided the modkill. You're welcome)

Signaling cases are shit. I don't agree with them, and think they are usually a smokescreen case for scum. How often does signalling actually work? How often does the person being signaled even know what to look for. Think on your Mafia career. How many times has it worked or someone being caught in a signal case actually been scum? I just don't think they have any merit and I think the people that use them are either using them as a screen or just can't think of anything better to write.

The Shadow/Desra thing seems over the top and contrived. Shadow going on about unnecessary posting benefiting scum...wtf is that. Someone posted a D-day scenario on thread, and Shadow says thats a worthless post that really contributes nothing...seriously? It seems like according to you, only posts that definitely point out scum should be allowed. That ain't happening. The way we find scum is to post, post a lot, point fingers, be abrasive, get info that others might not have thought of on the thread. I know you are a super genius and all but some people like to have things like D-day scenarios on thread for reference, or because they haven't thought of them. Trying to limit the flow of information on thread IS scummy. That is what you are trying to do.

regarding Desra, I actually think his case/observation had some merit...It doesn't add up that one vet, let alone two, haven't finished the series... but as for it being signalling.. well, I don't think so. But something doesn't seem right there.

There were a ton of people that popped on have like 3-4 posts and bailed.It's a bit early but based on last game, these people need to step up and start posting more. (I know, rich coming from my third post and first of substance...I'll be around much more from here on). We seem to have a posting problem and hopefully it can get fixed. I don't mind low posting, as long as the posts are content filled and constructive. Gaylord stuck out as good in this regard.

I think Atrahal's case on Silchas didn't have much behind it. But it is day 1 and you need to take stabs in the dark. What interests me is the reply that Silchas gave. See Below.

Silchas Ruin, on 04 June 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 04 June 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

For now I am going to



Vote Silchas Ruin



The only content he provided was the joke vote and a few one liners in response to me. Since then he hasn't done anything to engage in conversation. I am not sure where I place Desra and Shadow at the moment. One of them could be a symp muddying the waters. I want to focus on the people that don't want to stand out and coast along.

The only conversations going on to engage in when I was around yesterday was either meta to the threat of modkill and the pissing match between Desra and Shadow which I found ridiculous but had nothing to share that wouldn't be parroting someone else. And now I had 15 minutes to check the thread before I leave for my day, which resulted in no more insight than the fact that you have a massive rage boner that you're directing my way today.. Anyhow, that's my thoughts.

His reaction seems pretty wild and defensive for receiving one vote. A "massive rage boner" does not one post make. Based on this over reaction I am going to


vote Silchas Ruin


I would also be willing to vote Shadow for trying to control information flow on the thread, or any of the low posters that isn't me. I will be around until lynch.

[Tholen]

Also of note, This game is going to be a bit challenging in that the 2 killers will have no ties to each other. Usually, if we get one, there is a good chance we can get the other based on interactions. We don't have that luxury here. (Sorry shadow if this post was obvious to you. It doesn't really help us find scum, but maybe it will help people think of way/things to post that will helps us eventually. If this doesn't meet your standards for a content filled post that isn't just filler...I apologize.)