[Abyss]

SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS FOR ALL DRESDEN BOOKS INCLUDING COLD DAYS AND EARLIER


SPOILERS

SKIN GAME AND LATER BOOK SPECULATION


SPOILERS

FUCKING SPOILERS

AND ALSO SPOILERS

VADER IS LUKE'S FATHER THERE I FUCKING WARNED YOU

SPOILERS

Hound, on 10 May 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

Found another interview with more info about the next Dresden novel ...: http://archeddoorway.com/tag/ad-astra/
Harry becoming the Winter Knight could be one of the best things to ever happen to him (for us readers that is).

It occurs to me that, given the revelations about the Winter Fae in COLD DAYS that they are basically trying to protect the universe from the Outsiders, Harry's role as Winter Knight essentially makes him a champion of reality, more or less.

He's commanded the Wild Fae, at Toot's level and the Wild Hunt.

He has no overt link to Summer, but Summer only exists as a counterbalanace to Winter's more important role, so screw Summer.

He's been possessed by a Denariian, and invested with Soulfire by an Archangel, which gives him a link to both Heaven and Hell.

Demonreach gives him a localized link to... nature or something.

He has a daughter by a human woman who was part-vamped, and his brother is a vampire.

His mother was a Wizard and his father was human.

All he's missing is Michael's sword, which isn't unthinkable if the purpose is to protect the world or something.


In essence, Harry is being linked to virtually every major force, supernatural or otherwise, in the series. Sure, there are bits and pieces we haven't seen yet, but generally he's got them covered.


All this makes sense if the end game is Harry as the divine champion of everyone destined to save everything.


I think that's where Butcher's going, but it almost seems too obvious. Am wondering whether he may go in a different direction before the Apocatrilo.

Thoughts?

[Illuyankas]

Harry Dresden is Merlin in Excalibur 2: Electric Boogaloo

Also Lacuna is the tooth fairy THERE I SAID IT

[Aptorian]

Abyss, on 16 May 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

VADER IS LUKE'S FATHER

God damn it Abyss I was waiting for the right time to sit down and watch that film!

Abyss, on 16 May 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

In essence, Harry is being linked to virtually every major force, supernatural or otherwise, in the series. Sure, there are bits and pieces we haven't seen yet, but generally he's got them covered.

All this makes sense if the end game is Harry as the divine champion of everyone destined to save everything.

Well, naturally, given the narrative on the series revolving around Harry's POV, we can expect Harry to be right smack in the middle of things. Unless something drastic happens after book 20 we need Harry to be right there, there and everywhere, some how.

But Harry's also forged a role for himself as the wild card, simply by being who he is. When things become bad and unjust, you can expect Dresden to show up and fuck shit up. Harry can't not stick his nose in things. So, yeah, Harry will be in the middle of things. The question is, will it just be coincidence, or a predestined role he needs to play?

Is there somebody or some power guiding him towards this end? The Angels certainly seem to have an interest in him, but that might not be linked to any kind of direct interference, more likely it is simply the fact that they seem to exist outside the rules of time and space and may already have seen what Harry will do when the sky starts falling six or so years into the future.

I don't think there is any kind of deck of dragons or Wheel of Time pulling Harry towards the middle. I think he just finds his way there all on his bumbling own.

Abyss, on 16 May 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

I think that's where Butcher's going, but it almost seems too obvious. Am wondering whether he may go in a different direction before the Apocatrilo.

Thoughts?

I honestly do not know where the hell Butcher is going by now. I was expecting Changes to be the book that shifted the perspective and scene and began the road to the Apocalypse. But the series has remained focused on Chicago instead of becoming a globe trotting adventure. I swear to god if the apocalypse takes place in Chicago I will have a fit.

I suspect that the books will remain focused on Dresden the character and his life and only with book 21 will the story grow to be more than a story about a couple days in Harry's life.

[amphibian]

Dresden is the one to end the Outsider war. That's my view on it. Maggie will be more powerful than he in the end, but Dresden will make it safe for her (and everyone else) to live. Harry will be the Black Staff at some point - which is why he's writing these books to tell the next Black Staff what's going on, as did Ebenezar and the others all the way back to the real Merlin.

As for Harry getting a divine sword - not gonna happen. He's not a pointy stick guy. He's a boom stick kind of guy.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 19 May 2013 - 06:20 AM

[Abyss]

technically the swords have moved to Murphy, but I'm not discounting the possibility of Harry getting Michael's.

As for Faith... I dunno... There's definitely potential there.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Harry also has connections to Billy & the Alphas. Kincaid & The Archive. Mouse. The Erlking. Mort & the ghost world. Even the Black Court via Mavra, since there seems to be something of a standoff there. I'm still looking forward to him meeting the Jade vampires (it has to happen at some point, right? How often does Butcher make throwaway references, never to be returned to?).

I've read all the books, but I'm drawing a blank on Faith? Looked it up and it says she was the kidnap victim in one of the earliest Side Jobs stories. I do remember that, but where does this talk of her playing an important role come from?

[Illuyankas]

Dude, even if Faith being Maggie is the inevitable time travel Law of Magic-breaking event (all Laws will be broken by the end, though please don't send Harry back in time to be the original Merlin Jim that would be awful), that means Thomas was groping up his niece. And Harry was goonily eyeing up his daughter.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Wait, Side Jobs? Ohhhh, I'm getting a side character mixed up with the girl from Grave Peril. DISREGARD, THANKS

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 19 May 2013 - 04:03 AM

[Dolorous Menhir]

Still lost. You're saying that Harry's daughter Maggie and the girl from that Side Jobs story are the same person? Why?

[Illuyankas]

Oh, you mean Faith as in the girl from literally the first ever Dresden story that described Murphy as 'stout' and is probably closer to Thomas's age than Molly's by the latest books?

[Abyss]

Pretty certain we'll see the Jade Court eventually.
As for Maggie, i could see an epilogue featuring her, perhaps a novella.

[Cause]

Abyss, on 20 May 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

Pretty certain we'll see the Jade Court eventually.
As for Maggie, i could see an epilogue featuring her, perhaps a novella.

I know exactly what we can expect. The book will begin at awesome level 8 rise to awesome level 10, dip to awesome level 7 and then at the climax go of the awesome scale to level 13! There will be demons and fairies and gods and angels and MotherF@#$ing Dresden raining down hellfire and wit upon his enemies

[amphibian]

I've been doing a careful reread of the entire series. What's kind of cool is that we now finally have enough pieces to see who's been manipulating whom all the way back to Fool Moon.

The weird hob thing from Small Favor is explained by a certain Winter Court member working with the Black Council. The werewolves of Fool Moon are almost certainly the work of the Black Council as well. Cowl and Kumori seem to actually not be Black Council, although the footrace to the Kemmler treasure probably was orchestrated by the Black Council.

The only new questions I really have at this point are as follows:

1) What happened to Thorned Namshiel? Does Vadderung have it in a secure chamber now?
2) Harry's mother died giving birth to him - or so goes the story. What's the deal with that and where would she go if she wasn't dead?
3) Elaine said she spent years in the Summer Court after she ran from DuMorne. What happened there and how did she get out?
4) Many of the pieces point to Ancient Mai as being unusually significant, however she's gotten almost no play in the storyline thus far. Why?
5) Jade Court, Jade Court, Jade Court.
6) Why are so many Wyldfae (presumably under the purview of the Erlking) involved in anti-human things?

[Abyss]

amphibian, on 18 June 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

...1) What happened to Thorned Namshiel? Does Vadderung have it in a secure chamber now?

I thought he escaped at the end of SF and Nicodameus was pissed about it.
What makes you think Vad has him?

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2) Harry's mother died giving birth to him - or so goes the story. What's the deal with that and where would she go if she wasn't dead?

I think she faked her death and will show up either on the BC, or as having set up Harry as a long game counter-measure to the BC, Nemisis and/or the Outsiders.

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3) Elaine said she spent years in the Summer Court after she ran from DuMorne. What happened there and how did she get out?

We learned in one book that she negotiated service for shelter and then release. Can't remember where.

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4) Many of the pieces point to Ancient Mai as being unusually significant, however she's gotten almost no play in the storyline thus far. Why?

Because she's powerful as fuck and ambiguous and not an active player in Harry's life. So far.

(as a pointless aside, the (crap) tv show took the entirely lame path of revealing her to be a dragon who set up the entire WC as a countermeasure to other dragons)

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5) Jade Court, Jade Court, Jade Court.

Eventually i'm guessing. I think Butcher's saving them for a power play.

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6) Why are so many Wyldfae (presumably under the purview of the Erlking) involved in anti-human things?

The Erlking is the notional ruler, but we keep seeing them involved in things, i think, because they are easier to bribe or enslave than Summer and Winter Courts.

[Illuyankas]

So are we ignoring the entropy curse from Blood Rites killing his mother, or...?

[Abyss]

Illuyankas, on 18 June 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

So are we ignoring the entropy curse from Blood Rites killing his mother, or...?

Nope. I'm speculating she was clever enough to make a plan to duck it.

[Mikkelinski]

But it was her death curse that prevented Raith from feeding all those years, according to Harry, and Raith confirms it (which is why he's after Harry and thomas).

[amphibian]

Thorned Namshiel died at the end of Small Favor. Michael cut off the hand the coin was within and during the helicopter ride out, the coin went missing. Namshiel is the one that attacked Arctis Tor, but I suspect Rosanna has something to do with the Black Council also.

Sanya was trying to keep Michael alive, Marcone said he didn't have it and Gard immediately reported back to Monoc Industries after the helicopter ride.

The Raith King curse is a good sign that Margaret is indeed dead, however, she'd managed to work magic into the pentacles that Thomas and Harry carry and the waystone.

She might have some Kemmler ish magic that lets her come back to life. I'm sure Harry's father is dead due to the campfire talk he had in Harry's dream that reminded him of the power of choices.

[amphibian]

Couple more thoughts:

Mister might be special too. But I doubt it. He's too good as a pure alleycat. Not everything around Dresden has to be the wonderbeing or wonderthing.

Bless Butcher for creating Demonreach. It expands the sandbox in so many ways that it's truly a blessing to the story. Backtracking that even further, the full inclusion of the Faerie Court in Summer Knight in its proto-complex form is the beginning of the sandbox expansion that works without breaking the story. Butcher has a gift for leaving things open-ended enough to iterate his way into something awesome down the line and it's paid off hugely with the Fae and with Demonreach. The donut thing was particularly inspired.

I'm leaving aside the Denarians for now as Skin Game will really let us know if they're anything more than annoyances who keep trying to make more angels to bring plague and harass the Knights of the Cross (which they basically are, even if they're lethal to almost everyone around them).

Molly's Star Trek bridge from Ghost Story (one of the best scenes in the entire series) comes from what is mostly a one liner in Turn Coat: Molly asking if she can join Dresden in the cockpit of the Water Beetle and him saying something nautical-ish/Star Trek-ish. That invitation to join Dresden in a boat headed towards what might possibly be a futile death doing some insane magic shaped her outlook on brain-maddening danger and how to deal with it - as flavored by the man who matters most in her life.

And now they're broken apart because Molly is the Winter Lady and Dresden the Winter Knight. What an awfully cruel - and clever - twist. Murph's clearly headed for Fidelacchius and now Molly's likely the Lady for a long while, even if Dresden works free. That good ol' sandbox is even bigger now.

[Abyss]

amphibian, on 20 June 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

...Murph's clearly headed for Fidelacchius ...

Murphy already has Fidrlastabby.
She's just really selective about when it's appropriate to use it because not everything she does is in service to God, which makes her very different from other Knights we've seen who did nothing but, notably Michael who got his ass shot off when he acted for selfish purposes.

[amphibian]

No, Michael didn't get shot because he was acting for selfish purposes. He got shot up because it was time to retire. He was combating the Denarians and saving a little girl, as well as Marcone, Sanya and Harry. The sword was supposed to move on.

I theorize that Amoracchius isn't actually for Harry, despite some kind of descent from King Arthur through the mother's side, it's for Thomas. The Sword of Love for the vampire who loves.

Think about it - Thomas has been using an old cavalry saber and a kukhri (which remains the single best small item chopping device I've used and has a connection to my home country, thus I adore Butcher for including it) for a while now to combat the enemies he's faced. He's probably due for an upgrade.