[Kilava]

Ruse, on 17 May 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

battery will die, I like monok I think. I only voted spite to try get numbers got lynch, anyone want to partake in clearing up Trake?

Would rather vote Monok or Spite. Partly because part of the accusation against Trake relies on me being scum, which I know isn't true, partly because I'd like to see his response and he said he ought to have more time soon I think. The only thing I really find Trake potentially scummy on atm is the possibility Thyr was de-railing from him, other than that it's just going back to Day 1 stuff, since he's not been around.

Would vote for a lynch ofc.

[Kilava]

Path-Shaper, on 17 May 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

It is now day 3. 4 hours 11 minutes remaining.


9 players still alive: Anthras, Denul, Eldat Pressen, Kilava, Monok Ochem, Pallid, Spite, Ruse, Trake

6 votes to lynch, 5 to go to night.

3 votes Spite: Eldat Pressen, Ruse, Pallid
1 vote Monok Ochem: Spite

Players not voted: Anthras, Denul, Kilava, Monok Ochem, Trake

I voted Monok.

Remove vote

Vote Monok

In case you weren't counting it for w/e reason.

[Kilava]

Ruse, on 17 May 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

battery will die, I like monok I think. I only voted spite to try get numbers got lynch, anyone want to partake in clearing up Trake?

If you're not going to be around to switch, bear time in mind.

[Anthras]

Having read through the thread quickly, it seems that the case on Spite can just as easily be used against most of the low posters in the game, myself included. As for Monok getting some heat, it is possible he's just a coasting scum, but he's playing it cool and to be honest it doesn't come off as scummy. Also, in the 100 game (or was it 99?) where anomandaris alt was playing with a very similar style in order to piss off town to a limited degree, and win over scum, which allowed him/her to make night finds without being targeted. The style allowed the player to help town while appearing scummy. Not saying that Monok is a secret town player trying to look like scum, but rather that this laidback no-content approach was not intended as a scum tactic last game, nor is it particularly useful in this type of game. Scum would probably not use this approach as it is somewhat irritating. The unfortunate side effect of this is that it leaves Monok as a relatively useless town player in terms of content. I feel like he is likely town, but I suppose he could be scum if he really doesn't give a shit. If we need to push a low posting lynch just so we can get a lynch before the day's end, I suppose we can do it. But I figure we have about 8-10 hours left in the day (correct me if I'm wrong), so there's no need to push this quickly.

Now that I have some time on my hands, I'd like to take a closer look at Ruse. Several of his posts have come off as strange, especially those trying to push the idea that Kilava is scum (which I find doubtful at this point, since we semi-tested this with the Kalse lynch). I'll gather some of these posts in a bit after I get some food and read through the thread again.

[Anthras]

Nevermind about my 8-10 hour comment, just saw PS' post. 4 hours. Still some time left. I'll try to hurry. In either case I'll be around for the next couple hours if we need a desperate vote.

[Path-Shaper]

Kilava, on 17 May 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 17 May 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

It is now day 3. 4 hours 11 minutes remaining.


9 players still alive: Anthras, Denul, Eldat Pressen, Kilava, Monok Ochem, Pallid, Spite, Ruse, Trake

6 votes to lynch, 5 to go to night.

3 votes Spite: Eldat Pressen, Ruse, Pallid
1 vote Monok Ochem: Spite

Players not voted: Anthras, Denul, Kilava, Monok Ochem, Trake

I voted Monok.

Remove vote

Vote Monok

In case you weren't counting it for w/e reason.

Sorry, my bad...

It is now day 3. 3 hours 40 minutes remaining.


9 players still alive: Anthras, Denul, Eldat Pressen, Kilava, Monok Ochem, Pallid, Spite, Ruse, Trake

6 votes to lynch, 5 to go to night.

3 votes Spite: Eldat Pressen, Ruse, Pallid
2 votes Monok Ochem: Spite, Kilava

Players not voted: Anthras, Denul, Monok Ochem, Trake 

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 17 May 2013 - 10:53 PM

[Kilava]

Anthras, on 17 May 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

Having read through the thread quickly, it seems that the case on Spite can just as easily be used against most of the low posters in the game, myself included. As for Monok getting some heat, it is possible he's just a coasting scum, but he's playing it cool and to be honest it doesn't come off as scummy. Also, in the 100 game (or was it 99?) where anomandaris alt was playing with a very similar style in order to piss off town to a limited degree, and win over scum, which allowed him/her to make night finds without being targeted. The style allowed the player to help town while appearing scummy. Not saying that Monok is a secret town player trying to look like scum, but rather that this laidback no-content approach was not intended as a scum tactic last game, nor is it particularly useful in this type of game. Scum would probably not use this approach as it is somewhat irritating. The unfortunate side effect of this is that it leaves Monok as a relatively useless town player in terms of content. I feel like he is likely town, but I suppose he could be scum if he really doesn't give a shit. If we need to push a low posting lynch just so we can get a lynch before the day's end, I suppose we can do it. But I figure we have about 8-10 hours left in the day (correct me if I'm wrong), so there's no need to push this quickly.

Now that I have some time on my hands, I'd like to take a closer look at Ruse. Several of his posts have come off as strange, especially those trying to push the idea that Kilava is scum (which I find doubtful at this point, since we semi-tested this with the Kalse lynch). I'll gather some of these posts in a bit after I get some food and read through the thread again.

Roled players tend to play somewhat similar to scum. Since this game is purely RI on the town side, there's not really the possible reasoning of when roles are involved. In that case, it is useful to town for the person to play that way, in a case where the player is RI it really isn't.

The case on Spite isn't just that he's low posting, but that he's also being tremendously middle of the road, though parts of it do apply to other people too.

Still not really sure why you think the Kalse lynch tested my scumminess (though it would've maybe shown me as unlikely scum if he'd CF'd scum, but he didn't). Not sure if any of the accusations against me liinked me and Kalse in a manner that would suggest I'm inno because he CF'd inno, since that would most likely mean people were looking at a me/Kalse partnership, which doesn't really make sense.

[Denul]

Here, catching up...

Sorry guys, I'm really struggling to find time for Mafia at the moment, but I will be around for the rest of the day.

[Anthras]

Okay so I'm struggling with this quote formatting thing (I remember it being much easier a couple years ago, for some reason). I'll divide this up into a couple posts.

Here's one of the first instances where Ruse came off as strange.

Ruse, on 14 May 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

Wow.

If Thyr is faking I want to give that guy an Oscar.

I'd be willing to vote for Denul, Trake, Spite, Thyrllan, Serc, Ryadd for all different reasons. Nothing big though as it's only day one. Denul for initial vote that started this mess, Trake for his aggressive play when confronted, Spite for coasting along voting with the flow not adding much, thyrllan in case signalling was right, Serc for seemingly.fake symping me, he had been too agreeable with me and follows my vote, and Ryadd because I think he is the actual symp.

Thyr was obviously faking it. It was painfully obvious, and it seemed that though a couple people may have bought into the inno act, I'd bet the majority just wanted Thyr out of the game because he threatened to confuse the game more than he had by that point (still managed to confuse the hell out of the game though... thanks for that Khell). Oh, and note that Ruse makes his own little list here. Surely he doesn't consider lists as scummy.

Oh wait...

Ruse, on 15 May 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

Just heading out. Your full of shit. That is a list up above. Scum love lists. Your just pissed because you assume you are playing a good town game and that we shouldn't lynch you. I bet you will turn out scum. You and Pallid. You forgot to mention him.

This post was directed at Kilava. Ruse is all for lists when it serves his purpose, but when he has a target in mind they suddenly become a convenient and obvious means of scum detection. "Full of shit," he says?



Going back a bit

Ruse, on 15 May 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

Vote Kilava

Having just read up he argues with some people, pokes other people, is nice to other's a really mix of emotions coming from him. He is mostly active and I get a huge scum vibe from him.

The scum vibe, hopefully not entirely based on the smoothness of Kilava's play. Ruse case isn't entirely based on that. Ruse points out some early potential signalling between Kilava and Pallid, some mention of avatars, and how Kilava dealt with the Thyr situation. About the Thyr situation, Ruse says the following:

Ruse, on 15 May 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Kilava is one of the only ones playing to Thyr's role play. Why? Looking for brownie points? Knowing he will turn out innocent which in turn may make Kilava look more town like?

Kilava, on 14 May 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

For someone playing the confused inno, Thyr still does manage to pull out the standard response to symp cases (based on someone elses actions etc), rather coolly.

Kilava, on 14 May 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

Also asking to be found is a poor show. Particularly before the finder (if there was one) is actually revealed.

Not sure if I buy this. I mean, if he's a confused inno, it seems to me that he would be more likely to be well acquainted with the OP, rather than missing information from it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ruse think Thyr deserved an award for his convincing inno play? And yet he condemns Kilava for treating Thyr as a possible inno at the time... Ruse makes a habit of being inconsistent. More to come.

[Anthras]

Kilava, on 17 May 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

Anthras, on 17 May 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

Having read through the thread quickly, it seems that the case on Spite can just as easily be used against most of the low posters in the game, myself included. As for Monok getting some heat, it is possible he's just a coasting scum, but he's playing it cool and to be honest it doesn't come off as scummy. Also, in the 100 game (or was it 99?) where anomandaris alt was playing with a very similar style in order to piss off town to a limited degree, and win over scum, which allowed him/her to make night finds without being targeted. The style allowed the player to help town while appearing scummy. Not saying that Monok is a secret town player trying to look like scum, but rather that this laidback no-content approach was not intended as a scum tactic last game, nor is it particularly useful in this type of game. Scum would probably not use this approach as it is somewhat irritating. The unfortunate side effect of this is that it leaves Monok as a relatively useless town player in terms of content. I feel like he is likely town, but I suppose he could be scum if he really doesn't give a shit. If we need to push a low posting lynch just so we can get a lynch before the day's end, I suppose we can do it. But I figure we have about 8-10 hours left in the day (correct me if I'm wrong), so there's no need to push this quickly.

Now that I have some time on my hands, I'd like to take a closer look at Ruse. Several of his posts have come off as strange, especially those trying to push the idea that Kilava is scum (which I find doubtful at this point, since we semi-tested this with the Kalse lynch). I'll gather some of these posts in a bit after I get some food and read through the thread again.

Roled players tend to play somewhat similar to scum. Since this game is purely RI on the town side, there's not really the possible reasoning of when roles are involved. In that case, it is useful to town for the person to play that way, in a case where the player is RI it really isn't.

The case on Spite isn't just that he's low posting, but that he's also being tremendously middle of the road, though parts of it do apply to other people too.

Still not really sure why you think the Kalse lynch tested my scumminess (though it would've maybe shown me as unlikely scum if he'd CF'd scum, but he didn't). Not sure if any of the accusations against me liinked me and Kalse in a manner that would suggest I'm inno because he CF'd inno, since that would most likely mean people were looking at a me/Kalse partnership, which doesn't really make sense.

You'll recall that I wasn't really convinced that Kalse was a symp for you. It was possible, and at the time just as likely as any of the other symp cases against you. I thought it more likely that you were a good town player, but the Kalse lynch was a way to check a potential symp case, while at the same time dealing with a possible scum hiding among the low posters. As is, I'm pretty sure you're town. You're cases are solid, and you dealt with Ruse in such a logical way that it serves to emphasize Ruse's strange desperation for your lynch earlier in the game.

edit: removed a 'the'

This post has been edited by Anthras: 17 May 2013 - 11:36 PM

[Spite]

Kilava, on 17 May 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

Anthras, on 17 May 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

snip

Roled players tend to play somewhat similar to scum. Since this game is purely RI on the town side, there's not really the possible reasoning of when roles are involved. In that case, it is useful to town for the person to play that way, in a case where the player is RI it really isn't.

The case on Spite isn't just that he's low posting, but that he's also being tremendously middle of the road, though parts of it do apply to other people too.

Still not really sure why you think the Kalse lynch tested my scumminess (though it would've maybe shown me as unlikely scum if he'd CF'd scum, but he didn't). Not sure if any of the accusations against me liinked me and Kalse in a manner that would suggest I'm inno because he CF'd inno, since that would most likely mean people were looking at a me/Kalse partnership, which doesn't really make sense.

Home from work. I tried to make it on earlier than this.

I tried to play the best I could. I tried to avoid getting the attention of the killers. I agreed with only the things on thread that I felt made the most sense. I made sure to be around to get a vote in for lynches. Mostly though, I felt like we really just didn't have much for content as a whole, with low page count. Other players were faster to highlight the very few case making information that was available, and I could have over-reached to try to create some more original cases, but I would have came across stupid instead.

Like I said, of the 4 lowest posters, I felt I at least tried the hardest. I did what I felt was my best, and I guarantee we could put forth a much better choice with highest chance to find scum than me, but I'll settle with how ever it turns out. I'd look at Ruse and Pallid tomorrow though if I'm not alive. Eldat feels like the best choice for town. Denul could possibly be pulling a fast one, but who knows. That's all I've got.

[Kilava]

A couple of notes from looking over Eldat's posts.

He has seemed like he's been trying to set up lynches in advance a couple of times. On me here:

Eldat Pressen, on 15 May 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

You realize, of course, that you are now in the position that you have to be lynched, or the scum will just keep you around to cause discord and make us waste a lynch on WIFOM down the line. Sucks to be you.

And arguably on Monok here:

Eldat Pressen, on 15 May 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

I still wouldn't mind a Monok vote though as I am loathe to have him be involved in endgame.

Which made me also realise that it's kinda odd that he goes for Spite as his chosen coasty low poster case, given what his attitude towards Monok has been throughout:

Eldat Pressen, on 15 May 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

Vote Monok Ochem


I just caught up. Worthless poster is worthless. Maybe in the Vein of a HO type scum player? I don't know. But day 2 is the time to get rid of low/worthless posters regardless of if you have a strong case. It's early enough that it doesn't harm town too much, and it removes them from the possibility of being involved in late game decisions of which they will either not take part or be...worthless.

Eldat Pressen, on 17 May 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 17 May 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

I'm a consistent low poster, sad to say

I don't mind the accusations, but I can't defend against that and you know it. I join in as I can, that's why I knew what was going on yesterday.

It would be different if you joined in with analysis, or unique thoughts, or attacked somebody, or did anything remotely useful other than one liner posts that give us no knowledge one way or the other as to what team you are on. Joining in to post crap is almost as bad as not posting at all.

Eldat Pressen, on 15 May 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

Monok's last 6 or so posts. Are you kidding me? Nothing of substance. Nothing to indicate one way or another if they are scum or inno. No application of pressure on anyone. Just one post of subtly defending of Kilava. I am not sure if he is a bored inno, or a low laying Killer. I think Khell was the symp, and even if he wasn't Monok is doing nothing that a symp would do. I just fear making it to end game with players like Monok. How are we supposed to glean anything from gems like these?

[snip]

2 references to old timers. Signaling? Or just his phrase of the game?

Also he's seemed rather successful at instigating things and letting others take over. The "smooth" thing on me, was cited a couple of times for people's reasoning for voting Kalse, Spite now the main contender for lynch etc. There's not anything intrinsically scummy about people agreeing with you, but fading away and letting other people pick up the banner and drive the lynch while you sit back looking less like a driving force can be.

[Anthras]

Here's the other half of my Ruse case. Somewhat relevant to my last post to Kilava, these posts show Kilava defending himself(herself?) and addressing Ruse's (and Mockra's) accusations head on. Kilava demonstrates that Ruse deliberately uses language associated with scummy behaviour when describing Kilava's cases.

Kilava, on 15 May 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Ruse, on 15 May 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Interestingly when Kilava re-enters the thread he does not acknowledge the case on Pallid properly, does not venture an opinion on it either, he comments it in passing in his "summary" to Thyr. He also votes for Kalse. Shifting focus away from Mockra's case. He also engages me and asks me questions elsewhere so that the thread is a lot more cloudy than it should be.

Kilava, on 14 May 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

Mockra, on 14 May 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Kilava, I wonder why you are voting Kalse when the suspicion was that he was signalling you. Destroying evidence?


I also find Pallid's response to my accusation over the top, OMGUS. It was the first vote on him, with no following train, so why the intentional misunderstanding of what I was getting at (that RE was signaling his master Pallid).

Meh, there are signalling accusations flying left right and centre atm, and those kinds of cases are usually pretty shaky to begin with. If I was scum, it seems a bit stupid to draw attention to Kalse if he had been signalling me. Also, if I was scum and thought he was signalling me, why would I try and get him lynched at this point? I mean, I'd have to be pretty worried about the connection to think it was worth ditching a symp over, and I haven't really seen much pressure for it at all, so why would I be?

That would be my response to Mockra's case. He had chosen to vote on one of several of peoples earlier interactions before the game was super serious.

I do love how engaging people is "shifting focus" and making the thread "cloudy". Yep, more information and more content, sure is bad that someone's making our lives all difficult by getting that on thread.

Edit: To clarify, it is my response to how I feel about his Pallid case. I didn't really think it was that worth acknowledging, because he himself pointed out a couple of such instances of "potential signalling", and I saw no reason that one was more likely than any of the others...

Yeah, Ruse uses this language to cover the bullshit, no doubt.

Kilava, on 15 May 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

Ruse, on 15 May 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

Just going off Pallid and Kilava paired, after Kilava gets two votes Ryadd comes on and votes for Thyr. Ryadd has already been touted as the symp of the two. Maybe I am wrong about one of these but I definitely think one of them is scum. Possibly both.

Except my supposed symp just came on with an early vote for me...

Are you guys even bothered about making sense, or just throwing a lot of buzzwords around and hoping something sticks?

Kilava calls them out for their bullshit. How did we let Ruse get away with this even after Kilava drew attention to it? If there is one scum directing the thread discussion (I'm assuming there's one in the spotlight, and one in the low posters -- seems like the most intelligent scum approach, especially after game 99), it seems that Ruse fits the bill for the outspoken scum. Tries to build cases on gut feelings, inconsistent behaviour, and deliberate use of language to mislead the thread.

[Anthras]

vote Ruse


I'll be around for a while yet if my vote is needed elsewhere, but I feel like Ruse is the best bet scum at this point

edit, clarified

This post has been edited by Anthras: 17 May 2013 - 11:50 PM

[Anthras]

You know, it might be that whereas Ruse is playing the leading scum, Eldat may be the lower posting, under the radar scum (based on Kilava's recent post).

[Denul]

Why are you voting Ruse with less than three hours left of the game?

It's highly likely that your vote will be needed elsewhere...

[Anthras]

I feel Ruse is scum. And I've said that I'm around to shift my vote. That's why.

[Denul]

Riiiight.

[Kilava]

Spite, on 17 May 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

Kilava, on 17 May 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

Anthras, on 17 May 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

snip

Roled players tend to play somewhat similar to scum. Since this game is purely RI on the town side, there's not really the possible reasoning of when roles are involved. In that case, it is useful to town for the person to play that way, in a case where the player is RI it really isn't.

The case on Spite isn't just that he's low posting, but that he's also being tremendously middle of the road, though parts of it do apply to other people too.

Still not really sure why you think the Kalse lynch tested my scumminess (though it would've maybe shown me as unlikely scum if he'd CF'd scum, but he didn't). Not sure if any of the accusations against me liinked me and Kalse in a manner that would suggest I'm inno because he CF'd inno, since that would most likely mean people were looking at a me/Kalse partnership, which doesn't really make sense.

Home from work. I tried to make it on earlier than this.

I tried to play the best I could. I tried to avoid getting the attention of the killers. I agreed with only the things on thread that I felt made the most sense. I made sure to be around to get a vote in for lynches. Mostly though, I felt like we really just didn't have much for content as a whole, with low page count. Other players were faster to highlight the very few case making information that was available, and I could have over-reached to try to create some more original cases, but I would have came across stupid instead.

Like I said, of the 4 lowest posters, I felt I at least tried the hardest. I did what I felt was my best, and I guarantee we could put forth a much better choice with highest chance to find scum than me, but I'll settle with how ever it turns out. I'd look at Ruse and Pallid tomorrow though if I'm not alive. Eldat feels like the best choice for town. Denul could possibly be pulling a fast one, but who knows. That's all I've got.

Ruse/Pallid is actually quite an interesting combination. They've seemed pretty antagonistic towards each other...

Pallid, on 16 May 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

So first of all - Ruse and his "lists" and shit is bugging me as well. Seriously. Seriously? Let's cut the crap with claims of scum merely because of a list.

[...]

My eye is still on Kilava/Trake, but again, I agree with Pressen that Ruse seems to be taking advantage of the train on Kilava. Which is odd, since most of his posting seems to be about me.

..but nothing has ever really come of it. Neither has ever voted the other. Ruse based his case on me/Pallid, but voted me, and seemed more intent on getting me lynched. Then today, Ruse really drops the heat (though he's generally been putting less pressure on, most likely due to the slow day. Nonetheless he drops the pressure on me as well as Pallid, even though I'm still apparently definite scum).

By today:

Ruse, on 17 May 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

Although I am more agreeable to Pallid than I was.

And Pallid is mentioned as one of three possible partners to me (definite scum).

Ruse then votes Trake, the partner suggested by Pallid's case.

For the impression they've given of being disagreeable towards each other, they haven't really seemed too bothered about following it up.

[Path-Shaper]

It is now day 3. 2 hours 20 minutes remaining.


9 players still alive: Anthras, Denul, Eldat Pressen, Kilava, Monok Ochem, Pallid, Spite, Ruse, Trake

6 votes to lynch, 5 to go to night.

3 votes Spite: Eldat Pressen, Ruse, Pallid
2 votes Monok Ochem: Spite, Kilava
1 vote Ruse: Anthras

Players not voted: Denul, Monok Ochem, Trake