[Slowpete]

Hey Guys

Spoilers ahead for MT

Just finished Midnight Tides, first time post here (Hello!) although i've been browsing anonymously since i started.

Just a slight feeling i had when reading the last few chapters around where Fear walks away from Rhulad (having just been whooped by Brys) Fear goes off walking through the city having his own internal monologue - my feeling is, did this not entirely feel very "Trull" like?

I started feeling at that point that SE was going to do the old switcharoo and have a revelation scene that Fear was going to be the one to get cast out (shorne?) and then take Trull's name as some kind of respect for what Trull had been telling him all along.

Although this most probably is blown out of the water with future books, was just an interesting thing that i found with how we suddenly got exposed to a POV from Fear only to reveal how he pretty much feels the same way as Trull - just didn't seem to have the conviction to stand up to Rhulad.

Slowpete

[amphibian]

I believe Erikson was showing us that many of that same qualities that make Trull "Trull" were very much present in his brothers, but an essential courage and resilience to the process of questioning firm beliefs was missing at times or entirely in Fear, Binadas and Rhulad.

Having the strength of character to question yourself, examine others and then stand up for the truth once you see it or come to terms with it is an exceptional thing. However, most of us are not too far away from exceptional things like that - a hopeful, yet sad concept Erikson loves showing us.

[Jagh-o-matic]

I just got done with a reread of this book, and the passage that stood out to me is when Fear is wandering through the city, he muses on the idea that he had really tried to keep life simple and had really struggled to make the whole Rhulad experience fit into a neat little box and that Trull voiced his (Fear's) doubts and fears so that Fear wouldn't have to. I think this shows that there was more going on within him the whole time, he just expressed it differently than Trull. Otherwise, why the extreme anger when dealing with Trull? At one point he basically threatened to knife Trull in the back, rather out of character.

Also, when it comes to who is shorn, bear in mind that Fear is leaving, Trull is staying.

[worry]

Fear is no dummy by any stretch, but he definitely has the burden, so to speak, of being the family's "first son" and feels the pressure weighing on him pretty much constantly. You can say by the end of the book he's definitely changed somehow, he's had an actual arc after all even as others were more in the foreground, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's reconciled the various pushes and pulls on his life. His role in his family and his society has given him structure, responsibility, and no doubt pride, but it's also kind of left him less able to handle such severe upheaval, while Trull -- having a much less rigidly defined role -- is more adaptable to the change...up to a point.

This post has been edited by worry: 04 June 2013 - 08:34 PM

[khushfehmi045]

Just a slight feeling i had when reading the last few chapters around where Fear walks away from Rhulad (having just been whooped by Brys) Fear goes off walking through the city having his own internal monologue - my feeling is, did this not entirely feel very "Trull" like?<br style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19.5px; background-color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><br style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19.5px; background-color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">I started feeling at that point that SE was going to do the old switcharoo and have a revelation scene that Fear was going to be the one to get cast out (shorne?) and then take Trull's name as some kind of respect for what Trull had been telling him all along.







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This post has been edited by khushfehmi045: 25 December 2014 - 05:19 AM

[theocean]

Trull was the outspoken voice to many of the edurs inner monologue, at least most of his families.

I never got why Rhulad would accept Brys challenge, nothing of his conquest was honorable, why be honorable in that throne room?

[worry]

 theocean, on 03 December 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

nothing of his conquest was honorable, why be honorable in that throne room?

The first part answers the second part, IMO.

[theocean]

 worry, on 03 December 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

 theocean, on 03 December 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

nothing of his conquest was honorable, why be honorable in that throne room?

The first part answers the second part, IMO.

But then after that he was a dck regardless, if that had been a pivotal change in him maybe... but one random honorable moment surrounded by unhonourbale actions... i expected him to just roll on in ashole style using his CG hook up.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

 theocean, on 04 December 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

 worry, on 03 December 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

 theocean, on 03 December 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

nothing of his conquest was honorable, why be honorable in that throne room?

The first part answers the second part, IMO.

But then after that he was a dck regardless, if that had been a pivotal change in him maybe... but one random honorable moment surrounded by unhonourbale actions... i expected him to just roll on in ashole style using his CG hook up.

To my mind Rhulad is a bit more complex than that. I think it's one of the moments that shows pre-CG Rhulad is still in there somewhere.

[theocean]

Pre crippled god he was a dick too though really. He had no honor before chasing fears lady all over. Falling asleep on guard. I love the scene and all just never got why he'd pick that moment to be stand upish.

This post has been edited by theocean: 08 December 2014 - 04:10 PM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

 theocean, on 08 December 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

Pre crippled god he was a dick too though really. He had no honor before chasing fears lady all over. Falling asleep on guard. I love the scene and all just never got why he'd pick that moment to be stand upish.

Mmm, there was certainly some dickish behaviour put I read that as immature, cocky etc. - the stuff post-CG is out and out cruelty born of an increasing insanity, so there's a world of difference. I understand what you're getting at, I just think it's still fairly different either side of Rhulad running into CG. A better phrasing of what I said would probably have been "the good parts of pre-CG Rhulad are still in there somewhere."

Everybody interprets various bits of the books differently though.

[theocean]

It just was a little odd to see him flash some honor... then it backfiring was nice. I was waiting for a real duel only to get an annihilation... God damn poison. What happens there if brys isn't thirsty?

This post has been edited by theocean: 08 December 2014 - 08:28 PM

[Tru]

 theocean, on 08 December 2014 - 08:26 PM, said:

It just was a little odd to see him flash some honor... then it backfiring was nice. I was waiting for a real duel only to get an annihilation... God damn poison. What happens there if brys isn't thirsty?

If I am recalling this correctly, Rhulad wanted/needed to be killed in order for his skill to increase, (obviously some compulsion brought on by the sword/CG) which it does with each defeat and resurrection. It is also hinted at, or presumed that the more formidable the opponent, the more significant the improvement. So there was n real honor at all, he knew Brys would kill him, but did not know Brys would choose to leave him crippled beyond any ability to fight, yet keep him alive.

If Brys was not thirsty? Then Rhulad would have laid there a bit longer before someone else killed him eventually, out of mercy or vengeance. It's a good thing the author doesn't leave us with "what if's?" in this case. He simply was thirsty.