[Werthead]

This came out today and is excellent. The artwork is astonishing and the book really delves into some fairly big mysteries:

They explain why the Valyrians never conquered Westeros:

Spoiler

In fact, the Valyrians invaded and conquered Dorne and the southern Reach thousands of years ago and founded Oldtown, building the lower level of what is now the High Tower. However, two prophecies were made which drove them from the continent. The first was that the Doom of Man would come from Westeros - the Others? - and that they should not be there. The second was that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy whichever Valyrians trusted in it. They chose to leave rather than risk it. The latter seems to be a reference to the betrayal of the Targaryens by Tywin Lannister during Robert's Rebellion.

Nice. Although it's getting a little bit tiresome that every niggling backstory mystery is being answered with "because of some prophecy hitherto unmentioned".

Also wrt to the seasons:

Spoiler

The book also pretty much confirms that the world used to have regular seasons before the Long Night.

The Doom of Valyria:

Spoiler

The books hints that the Faceless Men, the sect which began as slaves toiling beneath the Fourteen Fires, assassinated the Valyrian sorcerers whose job it was to maintain the spells that prevented the volcanoes from exploding. With them dead, the Fourteen Fires went kaboom and blew up the entire peninsula.

Also, GRRM drops some more Lovecraft references:

Spoiler

According to legend, the Old Ones live under the island of Leng in the Jade Sea and anyone who descends into the tunnels under the island goes insane and dies horribly. The Yi Ti emperors got so fed up with this they walled off all the passages and pretend it never happens.

Finally, the book confirms that 1) the world is round and 2) the seasons are magical and cannot be explained by science. There's a whole bit on maesters driving themselves crazy trying to explain the seasons through science and giving up.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 28 October 2014 - 05:27 PM

[WinterPhoenix]

Man o man, I want this book so badly, I imagine if I buy it though I will actually have to put off buying further books in the Malazan series for a bit, got's myself a decision to make I spose.

[Rictus]

For me, part of the appeal is the mystery in Martin's world. I hope he leaves some blanks on the map because that Doom part was . . . underwhelming to say the least.

[D'iversify]

Rictus, on 29 October 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

For me, part of the appeal is the mystery in Martin's world. I hope he leaves some blanks on the map because that Doom part was . . . underwhelming to say the least.

From what people on Westeros have been saying, Asshai is if anything more WTF than before.

[Werthead]

Asshai is really, really weird and bizarre. A bit more Bakker than anything we've seen before.

Spoiler

There are no children in the city, at all. It's absolutely massive, the biggest city in the world, but it's population is tiny. The city is mostly deserted for no reason anyone can figure out. The city has an anything goes policy towards slavery, religion and magic, allowing all sorts of depravity in the name of religion or magical research.

The River Ash is the city's main waterway and leads up into the mountains. Things get weirder and more twisted and messed up until it reaches the corpse city of Stygai at the heart of the Shadow. And at that point even the Asshai'i shadowbinders refuse to go any further.

The only reason anyone goes there is that there is immense ammounts of gold in the mountains and no-one else has the balls to go and mine it, so the Asshai'i get immensely rich on exporting it across the Jade Sea.

[WinterPhoenix]

Bought the book today, haven't gotten to properly sit down and enjoy it yet, as my girlfriend is currently looking at it, going to read this thing so hard... lol

[WinterPhoenix]

Reading through I was more than a little amused to see that the Tully's have in their ancestry two men by the name of Elmo and Kermit lol

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

I've not been impressed with Martin for some time, but I've got to say World of Ice and Fire is really good. He still needs a good editor/thesaurus (his new favourite word is "lickspittle") but it's interesting to read a book which so obviously contains the bias of the various maesters who wrote the original scripts Maester Yandel pulls together to write the book. You can really play "Spot the Pycelle" with everything Aerys onwards.

Also, the artwork is beautiful.

[Gorefest]

It's a gem indeed. I truly hope that SE and ICE will do something like this in the future as well. It is simply gorgeous -and- very well constructed, a rare combination.

[Werthead]

They were going to be doing the ENCYCLOPEDIA MALAZAICA, but the impression I get now is that they don't see the need with the Wiki, and if anything like that gets done it will be through something like an RPG setting sourcebook.

[Gorefest]

There are plenty of Wiki's and other internet databases on SoIaF as well, but the WoIaF is something a bit different. Don't think you can compare it like that.

[Werthead]

Gorefest, on 15 January 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

There are plenty of Wiki's and other internet databases on SoIaF as well, but the WoIaF is something a bit different. Don't think you can compare it like that.

There's also the slight difference in sales between the two series. WoIaF was still seen as a bit of a gamble, even with the main series selling 35 million copies. For a series with far fewer sales, a big lavish companion book is going to be an even bigger risk.

[Abyss]

Jahdu, on 15 May 2014 - 09:53 PM, said:

Am I the only one that gets the feeling that people are just trying to milk the cash cow that is GoT a bit too much??
Why don't they just go the whole hog and open up the GoT theme park already...
...

I, for one, would be totally cool with a WoT theme park.

Would probably have to be adults only tho'...

Werthead, on 28 October 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

...
Also, GRRM drops some more Lovecraft references:

Spoiler

According to legend, the Old Ones live under the island of Leng in the Jade Sea and anyone who descends into the tunnels under the island goes insane and dies horribly. The Yi Ti emperors got so fed up with this they walled off all the passages and pretend it never happens.

Finally, the book confirms that 1) the world is round and 2) the seasons are magical and cannot be explained by science. There's a whole bit on maesters driving themselves crazy trying to explain the seasons through science and giving up.

I was stunned at how much Lovecraft they worked in...

Spoiler

The frog people, the Goat, the frikkin Yellow Emperor in Carcosa...

....seriously that last one was a bit much.

D, on 29 October 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

....Asshai is if anything more WTF than before.

SO MUCH WTF.
I liked that part. (Wyverns! Velociraptors! King Kong!!!!... no, seriously, King Kong, that was ridiculous in a good way...), so much more weird and dark than the more traditional Euro-esque fantasy of Westeros... shades we only see in bits and pieces in the actual books.



Let me say that this totally did not work in earbook. While there are chunks, mostly realted to battles or some of the more weird sections, that are good listening, overall this is far too dry and academic (considering the source material) to really hold one's interest in purely audio form. The two narrators do their best, no critique of the voicework at all.

In ebook however, way nicer - arguably the dead tree version still stands above, but even so - with the gorgeous art and the ability to skim the upteenth paragraph of Aerons and Aegons and Aesshats, it makes for a better work overall.

I really enjoyed the Dorne section, which did a lot to flesh out that segment of the world.
I liked getting clarification on the interplay between the First Men, Andals and Targaryans.
The histories of the various castles were a nice touch.
Lord Tywin's history was even more fun than i expected.
Still didn't get an authoritative retelling of the fight between Ned and Dane. Dammit.
I did not like the endlessly repetitious names, with only infrequent 'The eighth of his name' to clarify who the fuck. Sure it's neat to read about the original Joffrey, but otherwise it's offputting, not engaging. The book acknowledges this more than once, outright stating sometimes the stories are muddled because the same name was recycled for generations, but it made for an irritating narrative, tho again that may have been an earbook thing.

[Abyss]

Briar King, on 27 October 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Wait that Yellow King and Carcosa were mentioned in True Detective S1.

Also a Lovecraft ref, same source.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

I have been reading it again and some of the "borrowed" elements niggled more this time. I know the series draws influence from the Wars of the Roses a lot, but some of the fleshed out Targaryen lineage comes across as lazy copying. Whichever king it was who goes slowly more nuts whilst working his way through six wives? Couldn't it have been five, or seven? I know it's a bit of a small whine in the grand scheme of things, but running with six feels really lazy.

Even so, it's a lovely book.

[Werthead]

Abyss, on 28 October 2015 - 03:57 AM, said:

Briar King, on 27 October 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Wait that Yellow King and Carcosa were mentioned in True Detective S1.

Also a Lovecraft ref, same source.

Lovecraft actually wrote it as a reference to THE KING IN YELLOW by Robert W. Chambers, and both TRUE DETECTIVE and GRRM were referencing the original. That was a coincidence, Carcosa is on the LANDS OF ICE AND FIRE maps released in 2012 whilst the first season of TRUE DETECTIVE aired in 2014.

[Abyss]

Werthead, on 23 November 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

Abyss, on 28 October 2015 - 03:57 AM, said:

Briar King, on 27 October 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Wait that Yellow King and Carcosa were mentioned in True Detective S1.

Also a Lovecraft ref, same source.

Lovecraft actually wrote it as a reference to THE KING IN YELLOW by Robert W. Chambers, and both TRUE DETECTIVE and GRRM were referencing the original. That was a coincidence, Carcosa is on the LANDS OF ICE AND FIRE maps released in 2012 whilst the first season of TRUE DETECTIVE aired in 2014.

True - go far enough back and even Lovecraft was sourcing a bunch of earlier writers and sources (some of which were real humans!).