[Traveller]

Just read the end of Changes, and was wondering why Martin went to such lengths to get Susan to the altar/full vamp moment, when he could have died there instead? He was a halfbreed.. and he would have got access to the alter through his double cross, so why not suicide or at least have got Harry to kill him there instead if he was so determined to die for the cause?

I'm just trying to figure out if there was a better way to have killed a new vamp on the altar and saved susan, without leaving so much to chance.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 12 March 2013 - 12:44 PM

[Abyss]

The Ritual required a newly converted vamp... essentially the 'youngest' so the spell would follow the line backwards thru the Red Court.

You make a good point re them both being halfvamps. My take was that Martin had been serving the Red Court for centuries. Odds were good that wouldn't work. Throw in some good old Catholic fear of damnation by suicide and there you go.

[Acorn]

Maybe he just preferred the Death-By-Hot-Chick-Monster-Ripping-Out-Your-Throat instead of the Gracious-Self-Sacrificing-Death-By-Sharp-Knife-Held-By-Tall-Winter-Knight-Guy

Or maybe what Abyss said....

[Abyss]

good point - given that it had to be a full vamp as a sacrifice, Martin couldn't just off himself without vamping out first and that would have meant killing someone. Hence he dodged that by letting Susan chow down.

[nacht]

I think there is a good tactical reason

If Martin tries to kill Susan, then Susan will not give in easily (because she is fighting for her daughter and is unaware of Martins long con)

On the other hand, Martin sacrificed himself making it easy for Susan to kill him (by giving her extra motivation and by giving up himself)
Also Harry was figuring out that the loophole while chatting with the red king and then having a soulgaze with Martin, I am not sure Susan was onto it until near the end (I think she and Martin went by themselves to rescue Maggie).

Finally there is a more of a surprise for the Red King this way. If Martin killed Susan it would be unexpected because the Red King might have other plans for Martin
From the Red Kings perspective, Martin would kill Maggie and that would take care of Susan and Harry and Martin is still available to continue as a spy.

Also, if I was Martin I would feel guilty like hell for selling out a little girl and a friend no matter the cause and considering that there was a low chance of success. Time do die.

Basically Martin saw the opportunity and jumped on it after triggering the soulgaze with Harry.

This post has been edited by nacht: 21 June 2013 - 09:48 PM

[amphibian]

I think you guys underestimate the difficulty of Martin theoretically killing himself after vamping out. Susan was near paralyzed after she started turning and her hands were the first thing to really start changing.

Martin would have had to maneuver Susan into killing him with the Red King there, which was going to be difficult. It's a somewhat contrived arrangement no matter how you look at it, but the difficulty of suicide is pretty obvious.

The Red King deep cover thing explains a bit, but it's still somewhat contrived.