[Silk]

Hi all,

Just been re-reading this and a few questions and information pick ups have come to mind.

1) There is a part within the Jungle where Murk and Sour are talking about Paths..... and how the QOD's has forged the path in adavance (areIcarium's new warrens called paths now or is there yet another form of magic now on the grow?)
2) K'Azz -- T'renn - K'rul - T'lan ----> related? I know K'Azz is his First Name, is this another hint at what is happening to the Crimson Guard?
3) I get the feeling that Ardata's role was in essence to keep things as is while the QOD believes in change and that in order for humans to move on they have to remove the stumbling block that is stagnation, in essence what Himatan represented to me... stagnation and how stagnation leads ruin of civilisations, i.e the old structures dispearing into the Jungle. This in a nutshell could be the Actual aspects of these "sisters". Order and Chaos where Order = Stagnation and Chaos = Change as change is always Chaotic to Order.

More to follow as I go along in the re-read....

[nacht]

Silk, on 01 March 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Hi all,

Just been re-reading this and a few questions and information pick ups have come to mind.

1) There is a part within the Jungle where Murk and Sour are talking about Paths..... and how the QOD's has forged the path in adavance (areIcarium's new warrens called paths now or is there yet another form of magic now on the grow?)
2) K'Azz -- T'renn - K'rul - T'lan ----> related? I know K'Azz is his First Name, is this another hint at what is happening to the Crimson Guard?
3) I get the feeling that Ardata's role was in essence to keep things as is while the QOD believes in change and that in order for humans to move on they have to remove the stumbling block that is stagnation, in essence what Himatan represented to me... stagnation and how stagnation leads ruin of civilisations, i.e the old structures dispearing into the Jungle. This in a nutshell could be the Actual aspects of these "sisters". Order and Chaos where Order = Stagnation and Chaos = Change as change is always Chaotic to Order.

More to follow as I go along in the re-read....

Something has been bothering me about QoD.
K'rul has some some of the same aspects. In GoTM he appears in Kruppe's dreams. In MOI he puts Stonny and Gruntle in a deep dream like state and they appear dead. He also appears as a woman in OST (I think). He is know as the maker of paths and from @Silks's take, it appears that QoD is also into making paths (dream on..... seems to indicate a potential for creating alternative options)
QoD keeps claiming that she is not a goddess, just a living sorceress. In FoD, we two Azathanai step out to explore the Vitr. Out comes T'riss (but she is not known as the QoD in the book) Even before FoD events, it seems K'rul had a made a deal with the Elient to create the warrens, and the Elient emerge from the Vitr. Did he make the deal after entering into the vitr.

Crazy speculation time but... Is T'riss K'rul?
This is Kallor's curse

Quote

K'rul, you shall fade from the world, you shall be forgotten.

Did he avoid the curse, by becoming somebody different, by becoming T'riss the Queen of Dreams...

[nacht]

nacht, on 01 March 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Silk, on 01 March 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Hi all,

Just been re-reading this and a few questions and information pick ups have come to mind.

1) There is a part within the Jungle where Murk and Sour are talking about Paths..... and how the QOD's has forged the path in adavance (areIcarium's new warrens called paths now or is there yet another form of magic now on the grow?)
2) K'Azz -- T'renn - K'rul - T'lan ----> related? I know K'Azz is his First Name, is this another hint at what is happening to the Crimson Guard?
3) I get the feeling that Ardata's role was in essence to keep things as is while the QOD believes in change and that in order for humans to move on they have to remove the stumbling block that is stagnation, in essence what Himatan represented to me... stagnation and how stagnation leads ruin of civilisations, i.e the old structures dispearing into the Jungle. This in a nutshell could be the Actual aspects of these "sisters". Order and Chaos where Order = Stagnation and Chaos = Change as change is always Chaotic to Order.

More to follow as I go along in the re-read....

Something has been bothering me about QoD.
K'rul has some some of the same aspects. In GoTM he appears in Kruppe's dreams. In MOI he puts Stonny and Gruntle in a deep dream like state and they appear dead. He also appears as a woman in OST (I think). He is know as the maker of paths and from @Silks's take, it appears that QoD is also into making paths (dream on..... seems to indicate a potential for creating alternative options)
QoD keeps claiming that she is not a goddess, just a living sorceress. In FoD, we two Azathanai step out to explore the Vitr. Out comes T'riss (but she is not known as the QoD in the book) Even before FoD events, it seems K'rul had a made a deal with the Elient to create the warrens, and the Elient emerge from the Vitr. Did he make the deal after entering into the vitr.

Crazy speculation time but... Is T'riss K'rul?
This is Kallor's curse

Quote

K'rul, you shall fade from the world, you shall be forgotten.

Did he avoid the curse, by becoming somebody different, by becoming T'riss the Queen of Dreams...

Maybe not :-)

Grizzin Farl in FoD

Quote

'My apologies. I dissemble. We all have had a hand in this. The one you name T'riss, who walked into, and then out of, the Sea of Vitr. My own children … but most of all, this belongs to K'rul, who answered worship with generosity. Who, assailed by prayers written in spilled blood, gave answer to them. But the power he surrendered was not intended only for those who worshipped him. He has given it freely, to everyone. By this, new sorceries are born, Mother Dark. By this, the forces in opposition are given names, and aspects.

On the other hand
Grizzin clearly mentions before that he does not know who T'riss could be and that the Azathanai can choose any form they want. So T'riss could still be K'rul. Bah.... whatever.

This post has been edited by nacht: 01 March 2013 - 10:13 PM

[Silk]

Bah... .way to herbalised at moment to vocalise my thoughts on this.....

One comes to the conclusion that the entire series is about new replacing old and/or adapt and fade, perhaps QOD is the adapting part of K'rul and Ardata is the stagnant part of K'rul and in order for T'renn to rise the 3 need to be one and K'rul moves on in the overall form of QOD....

[Silk]

Ok so finished up and well .....

SO how about:

K'rul = the way of blood magic i.e blood required to make magic, includes having to spill it to the later versions of hold and warrens
Ardata = the way of spirit magic, i.e tribal magics using spirits and powers of spirts, like the magic one of the Guard uses
QOD's = the way of dream magic (mind) i.e using the power of dreams to create a path where what you want happens without a physical or spiritual cost
T'renn and Icarium - both ends of the new magics, probably akin to paths.

[deOmair]

stagnation and how stagnation leads ruin of civilisations, i.e the old structures dispearing into the Jungle....

[Dayspring]

Icarium's paths seemed more like new warrens of their own unique properties...in DoD and tCG Sinn and Grub are exploring new ways of magic caused by the disruption that Icarium's attempt in Lether caused. Maybe T'renn is cementing those paths? Or to me, more like refining magic again, from wandering to holds to houses to doorways. To throw a fireball you don't have to crack open a whole warren, maybe you just cast a spell which T'renn's new paths allow you to do.

[worry]

I just threw in a quick reread of this before FoL. A few things I picked up:

1) The three Elder Gods possibly punished Kallor specifically for his genocide of TTT (as posited in the Jatal and Scarza convo when they meet).

2) T'riss had an unrequited love for, presumably, Anomander.

3) It's pretty cool that the Priest of Light tattoos Old Man Moon, given the conversation they have about the sun and moon and Light.

4) There's a funny thought from Murk via his pa, that goes "A pig can't be a tiger no matter how hard it tries" that reminded me of Fener and Trake.

5) The correction by the priest that Skinner isn't the King of Chains, but the King IN Chains is a pretty big one, and apt for the House role.

6) I caught a lot more of the parallels drawn between what Ardata has done with Himatan and what Kaminsod does with the House of Chains, and why she might be the closest thing to him around.

7) Old Man Moon settling here does help explain some of the moon magic Mogora does to heal Mappo.

8) Did Osserc deliberately avoid interfering the first time the cabal tried to end Kallor (ie called down TCG)? Was the sin of his "distraction" his avoidance of world events?

9) Did (some of) Kallor's people voluntarily commit suicide to aid him? One of the final groups of spirits Pon-Lor sees certainly suggests this. And it's not the first time in the book that affectionate words are pointed toward the High King.

[Kanese S's]

Silk, on 01 March 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Hi all,

Just been re-reading this and a few questions and information pick ups have come to mind.

1) There is a part within the Jungle where Murk and Sour are talking about Paths..... and how the QOD's has forged the path in adavance (areIcarium's new warrens called paths now or is there yet another form of magic now on the grow?)
2) K'Azz -- T'renn - K'rul - T'lan ----> related? I know K'Azz is his First Name, is this another hint at what is happening to the Crimson Guard?
3) I get the feeling that Ardata's role was in essence to keep things as is while the QOD believes in change and that in order for humans to move on they have to remove the stumbling block that is stagnation, in essence what Himatan represented to me... stagnation and how stagnation leads ruin of civilisations, i.e the old structures dispearing into the Jungle. This in a nutshell could be the Actual aspects of these "sisters". Order and Chaos where Order = Stagnation and Chaos = Change as change is always Chaotic to Order.

More to follow as I go along in the re-read....

It is practically spelled out that what happened to the Imass is happening to the Crimson Guard Avowed. I think it's mentioned at some point that the T'lan Imass refused to fight them.

[Kanese S's]

Silk, on 02 March 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

Bah... .way to herbalised at moment to vocalise my thoughts on this.....

One comes to the conclusion that the entire series is about new replacing old and/or adapt and fade, perhaps QOD is the adapting part of K'rul and Ardata is the stagnant part of K'rul and in order for T'renn to rise the 3 need to be one and K'rul moves on in the overall form of QOD....

Well, the thing with deities is that if one is forgotten another will take over their aspects. And lots of polytheist deities have had overlapping aspects. Even if knowledge of K'rul is gradually forgotten in the world, someone is still needed to fill that niche, so worshipers start assuming that QoD will do it. So she does.