[Dolmen 2.0]

You have a blank page and a story in your head.

What is the first thing you do?

EDIT: also why???

This post has been edited by Dolmen+: 04 February 2013 - 01:02 PM

[Abyss]

Dolmen+, on 04 February 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

You have a blank page and a story in your head.

What is the first thing you do?

View New Content.

[worry]

I like to start at the beginning.

[Use Of Weapons]

A variety of options, all of which I have used at one point or another:

1. Draw a map
2. Dive right in, allowing the characters to form as the prose flows
3. Write a 'history of the world'
4. Write character profiles
5. Think up titles
6. Write an introduction, discard when I have enough of a sense of the thing to start properly

[Acorn]

I prefer to take Terry Brooks' advice on writing.

Outline, Outline, Outline.

Of course it's really:

Read, Read, Read
Outline, Outline, Outline,
Write, Write, Write,
Repeat

But all in all it's nearly impossible to flesh out a legible story without at least a skeleton of an outline.

It doesn't need to be overly detailed, just a series of progressions to keep the story on track.

[worry]

Weird he'd be the one to say that. Novel by novel it makes sense, I guess, but he's one of the most obviously haphazard make-it-up-as-you-go world-builders I've ever read.

[Acorn]

worrywort, on 04 February 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

Weird he'd be the one to say that. Novel by novel it makes sense, I guess, but he's one of the most obviously haphazard make-it-up-as-you-go world-builders I've ever read.

Yeah. I honestly hadn't read anything by him until AFTER I read his book on Writing... "Sometimes the Magic Works: Lessons from a Writing Life"

But his advice is to Outline... If not the entire book and in detail, at least some skeleton with which to build the rest of the details in later with.

It's good advice.

The best advice in the book, however, is that if you're unaware how to outline a book in a way that isn't too restricting or unnatural... Then take one of your favorite books of the same genre and read it, but while reading it, outline THAT book from what you read. If you do it with a book you're really familiar with, you can usually outline it with only one or two sentences or bullet points for each heading.

It helps you learn that Outlines are just tools and sometimes lines that you can move or bend in order to make your story progress at an even pace... Instead of say... Brandon Sanderson, who builds an entire book with plot and build up only to resolve the entire thing in 2 chapters. It works for him... But not generally a selling point for a new writer looking to publish.

[Fist Gamet]

You would listen to Goodkind? Dear God...

The answer is simple: Write.

That's it. Easy enough. Just write. The content doesn't matter (that is what rewriting and editing is for) but simply, write. Outline is just waffle and avoidance, nobody ever sold an outline or even read one they found interesting. Write.

There it is. Cut it later if it is shit (I once cut fifty-three pages from the 'start' of my book because I didn't find the true 'start' I wanted until Page 54) because that ruthlessness is something else you will need to develop.

Just.

Write.

[Isa]

I very rarely have a story in mind when I start writing. Mostly, it's an image, or particular sentence, or a character. I wish I could outline, but I never know where anything's going. It's a sentence by sentence struggle. I suppose it's a compromise of sorts, I can't seem to write a relaxed first draft, and when you obsess over every sentence, the prose ends up dictating the narrative.

On occasion though, I need a game plan. Is anyone on LitReactor? If not, I highly recommend it, especially if you're looking for a workshop. Anyway, right now, the site is running a sci-fi short story challenge called Transport Us. It's open to non-paying members, so if you have a story that fits the criteria, consider submitting it (before the end of the month). They have some pretty cool prizes, and at any rate, people are usually pretty good about giving constructive feedback. Anyway, what I was getting at is that stories submitted to this challenge need to feature certain elements, and consequently I had to plan ahead, and found myself writing a truly shitty first draft just to get things in order. Took me a lot longer than writing a passable first draft and just poking a few things around when revising, but it was a good experience.

This post has been edited by Isolde: 21 February 2013 - 09:13 PM

[Use Of Weapons]

Briar King, on 05 February 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

Use Of Weapons, on 04 February 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

A variety of options, all of which I have used at one point or another:

1. Draw a map
2. Dive right in, allowing the characters to form as the prose flows
3. Write a 'history of the world'
4. Write character profiles
5. Think up titles
6. Write an introduction, discard when I have enough of a sense of the thing to start properly

Pretty much exactly what I do.

Esp have a Map before writing one word in the story, have atleast SOME history of the world, come up with a general outline of the entire story if you have the whole thing your head and just feel in the blanks as you progress. I usually have a notebook filled with location names, and character names with a basic physical description and as they come alive on paper I go back and pen in their traits and history. Im extremely BAD with titles though so I just do Chapter 1....2 and save the story under a specific cheesy file name that I know would never make it as the title if it was ever published. Hell Id prob tell my agent if I got one to come up with the title for me Im that bad at it!

Well, those steps above are not a _sequence_. They are distinct options. I guess you could take as many as you wanted if it fit your own process and go from there, but prescribing a start point is pointless. And saying a thing is absolutely necessary before beginning (eg. a map) is just false. I've drawn a map for precisely one of my projects, and while it was necessary for that one, it wasn't the first thing I did, and nor would I be unable to start writing if I didn't have one.

For my process, the one thing I _must_ have is a title. But, as you say, for many people titles are the hardest thing to come up with (or to get right), and so they leave them to end. And that's fine. The point is, if you have many potential start points, then you have ways to overcome that initial blank page. But if you're set on one single process to rule them all, then if that process fails, all you'll have is a blank page.

[Use Of Weapons]

Isolde, on 21 February 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

I very rarely have a story in mind when I start writing. Mostly, it's an image, or particular sentence, or a character. I wish I could outline, but I never know where anything's going. It's a sentence by sentence struggle. I suppose it's a compromise of sorts, I can't seem to write a relaxed first draft, and when you obsess over every sentence, the prose ends up dictating the narrative.

On occasion though, I need a game plan. Is anyone on LitReactor? If not, I highly recommend it, especially if you're looking for a workshop. Anyway, right now, the site is running a sci-fi short story challenge called Transport Us. It's open to non-paying members, so if you have a story that fits the criteria, consider submitting it (before the end of the month). They have some pretty cool prizes, and at any rate, people are usually pretty good about giving constructive feedback. Anyway, what I was getting at is that stories submitted to this challenge need to feature certain elements, and consequently I had to plan ahead, and found myself writing a truly shitty first draft just to get things in order. Took me a lot longer than writing a passable first draft and just poking a few things around when revising, but it was a good experience.

I really like that idea. Often, constraints enable creativity, where a completely open canvass inhibits it. I wonder if we could borrow that for our next short story comp? Have some kind of theme...?

[Dolmen 2.0]

I have waited a bit before saying my part. I tend to use a quirky approach and feel idiotic about it. I imagine my story in my head, often in the shower I sit down and simply mutter dialogue. Its something I've done since I had my first creative writing excercise. I'd mentally act out my characters. Once I had a sense of them, I'd paint out the world or go through paintings of worlds dealing with the subject matter, this really inspires me. It gives me a visual anchor within which I simply throw in my characters and observe what happens. I am a very image oriented person, if I can't see the scene in my head I can neither paint or write it. when I face a blank page in either discipline I need to have imagined atleast one key event I want my story to lead up to. In my previous short story it was the scene with giant sized viktor holding a wounded child in a bright room. That becomes my way light so in a way I am the type that needs a guide, I have just never commited that guide to paper. Its always in my head, evolving with the words I churn out.

[Ruthan Good]

So I've been sitting on this story for about two years now. It changed and mutated in millions of ways, although I seem to have settled on the broad strokes by now. However just the other day I have started writing I have realised that I don't even have a skeleton of the first part of for part story story. I have a skull and a pelvis at best, and possibly an undead hand to scratch the undead skull. In human terms I have the main outlines, the big plot points and character moments I want to hit, but only this week have I begun thinking of the journey that actually takes the characters there.

Here Erikson shines, actually. His books tell relatively complete stories (at least early on) that are exciting and interesting to read on their own and in the meantime drive the key characters forward to completely new surroundings of the next book. The way my barely foetal story is structured there are four vastly different settings for four books and characters transferring from one to another. And yet it's making the individual four stories detailed and compelling in their own right that is the tricky bit, all the while, driving the big overarching plot forward. The individual books plots exist and are Ok, but there's still a long way to go.

I guess my point is that sometimes you have a story but don't quite know how A got to B and recovered the mace of C. Some people can write write write and keep writing and fair enough if you can do that. Some people like, enjoy, and even crave planning.

[Fist Gamet]

Planning is great, and required, of course, but writing is much, much more than having cool ideas and fragments of stories. That sounds obvious, and is in no way intended to be patronising, but, rather, it is worth saying. You need everything for a good story: interesting characters, an interesting setting, drama, plot, a clear beginning, middle and end. Good stories are very well structured, plotted and paced. It is hard work and fills many long and lonely hours.

Good creative and imaginative ideas are a great place to start, but they are just that - a start. Plans are good too, but at some point you really need to put those plans into action. In many ways, having great ideas is the easy part, but writing a good story takes a lot of time and work, trial and error, write and edit and rewrite. Inevitably, if you do not learn the art and craft of story writing, and do not take the time and effort to plan and plot and structure the story, there is a very high probability that your wondrous creation will either run out of steam within 100 pages (or so) or sputter to an unsatisfying conclusion lacking pace, structure or plot.

Think of it this way: every idea you have has the potential to be developed into a story (or, at least, a part of one) but not every cool idea will be. Over the years I have built up literally hundreds of (in my head!) great ideas but only about one-in-five ever make it into my stories. The simple reason is because any idea, character, setting, cool twist or plot I have MUST fit into the story I am trying to tell. If it does not serve the story, it does not go in. It is a simply rule of writing.

Have a look at sites like:

http://www.helium.co...y-fiction-novel

http://www.newnoveli...ntasy_novel.htm

http://www.sfwa.org/

http://www.dailywrit...ight-point-arc/

http://terribleminds...tory-structure/

For people who can explain all this far better than I

[Isa]

Use Of Weapons, on 21 February 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

Isolde, on 21 February 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

I very rarely have a story in mind when I start writing. Mostly, it's an image, or particular sentence, or a character. I wish I could outline, but I never know where anything's going. It's a sentence by sentence struggle. I suppose it's a compromise of sorts, I can't seem to write a relaxed first draft, and when you obsess over every sentence, the prose ends up dictating the narrative.

On occasion though, I need a game plan. Is anyone on LitReactor? If not, I highly recommend it, especially if you're looking for a workshop. Anyway, right now, the site is running a sci-fi short story challenge called Transport Us. It's open to non-paying members, so if you have a story that fits the criteria, consider submitting it (before the end of the month). They have some pretty cool prizes, and at any rate, people are usually pretty good about giving constructive feedback. Anyway, what I was getting at is that stories submitted to this challenge need to feature certain elements, and consequently I had to plan ahead, and found myself writing a truly shitty first draft just to get things in order. Took me a lot longer than writing a passable first draft and just poking a few things around when revising, but it was a good experience.

I really like that idea. Often, constraints enable creativity, where a completely open canvass inhibits it. I wonder if we could borrow that for our next short story comp? Have some kind of theme...?

I agree, it's also interesting to see what people come up with working the same prompts.

[Macros]

We could do a super short story thread for shits and giggles.
we give either a starting line, ending line or some key component, you have one week and say 1000 words to do something with it.
I like my idea, 1000 words is something I might actually have time enough to get down in a week


ETA:
If there's any interest I'll start a thread so as not to disrupt this thread.

This post has been edited by Macros: 06 March 2013 - 11:44 AM

[Dolmen 2.0]

I'm in. sounds like a good way to get writing. Small excercises regularly would give us a bunch of practice rounds to warm our minds up. The next short story contest would likely get more applicants and better quality.

[Macros]

well that makes two for a start, working on it now.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Pretty good premise, the bard is a nice touch. I Think we might need a discussion thread to talk about how far we get etc?

[Macros]

hmmm, I'll ask someone to pin the entry thread and start a discussion thread then this is good thinking, maybe only post the entries in the main thread.