[D'riss]

I guess I'm disagreeing if you are parlaying your reasoning to anyone other than Ampelas who has had inconsistent statements and is on the block and is thus worthy of suspicion with his claims. If they are solely directed that way, then I agree in principle.

But you also said you don't believe in a player with less than a BP, then you went healer, then you further clarified and stated that you believe people have at least "fun" roles. You still neglect to accept something I know fundamentally to be true, so part of your reasoning is based off of logic I know to be faulty and if you don't care about that I wonder WHY you don't care.

[Mockra]

Monok Ochem, on 28 March 2013 - 01:31 AM, said:

I know others have brought this up, but here it is in hopefully a more concise form (if not, then ignore it. I need to write things down for my own review of the day).

Amp is very set on painting people a certain way, and when confronted with it (such as, but this person actually had a role coming from the opposite of what you said), he dissembles and tries to shrug off the comments, even saying role descriptions probably have little to do with a person's actual faction, contrary to what his own statements indicate. To be fair, he seems to take the approach that the actions of roles are more telling than the role's alignment in its original setting. So this accusation alone is not enough to pin down Amp.

Amp is also very big on writing himself off as RI. Now, while I have already stated how I feel about RIs in this game, I would hazard that openly claiming RI status is a different animal in a game where everyone has three alts/three lives. We have already seen one role, Eloth's, that powers up the longer it is ignored. Using the RI claim, Amp is telling us to go after other people who are obviously more powerful than him, and just leave him be, it's not like he's a threat in this alt.

And people like Mockra seem to stand by him in this regard. I am sorry. In this type of game, we need to assume that everyone is roled, everyone has a disastrous power, and no one is an inno just humbly using the only powers they were given, talking and voting.

These are reasons enough for me to challenge Amps assertions and attempts at appearing indifferent. His willingness to toss aside an alt seems fake and forced to me.

Is it really going to take a town lynch of an obvious RI role to convince you? I think you are an idiot for being pigheaded about this, it's a waste of time. Our options for lynching today are quite shit and you being hung up on the 'everyone must be roled' thing is wasting even more time. If it comes down to it, I will vote Amp because I'm pretty sure he is RI at the moment and that's possibly the only way to get it through your skull is if it's in front of your and other less vocal but nontheless idiotically stubborn faces. At no point did it say in this game that everyone will have a fancy non-RI role, it's fucking stupid to assume it doesn't exist in this game. You think it's worthwhile to lynch Amp for a stupid and possibly suspect vote? Fine, go forth and conquer if you can, but stop acting like the only roles in this game are power roles when there is no way for you to know that for certain.

[Omtose]

Vote Ryllandramanthiaus


I think we will get more info from this lynch based on the amount of pushing back and forth between he and Amp.

[Monok Ochem]

D, on 28 March 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

I guess I'm disagreeing if you are parlaying your reasoning to anyone other than Ampelas who has had inconsistent statements and is on the block and is thus worthy of suspicion with his claims. If they are solely directed that way, then I agree in principle.

But you also said you don't believe in a player with less than a BP, then you went healer, then you further clarified and stated that you believe people have at least "fun" roles. You still neglect to accept something I know fundamentally to be true, so part of your reasoning is based off of logic I know to be faulty and if you don't care about that I wonder WHY you don't care.

I guess it's not a matter of calling you a liar. It's the assuming that there are people who cannot effect the game with some kind of ability, passive or active. We have not seen a role without an effect yet. So it is safer to assume that everyone has a role, everyone is important, and that everyone is a ticking time bomb. Plus, if we assume a preponderance of roles, we won't be quick to discount the lurkers and quote on quote bored RIs like in a normal game.

It's a worldview, take it or leave it.

[Ampelas]

Now for Skintick, my new favourite avatar picture:


Skintick has 14 posts. Skintick starts off with a few nothing posts - fair enough, early in day 1 and all. His first real post is the vote on Eloth, below. Not really reasoning, just hopping on the lynch train.

Skintick, on 26 March 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

Eloth, on 26 March 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

The worst part of this lynch train is that half my team are the ones who more or less started it.

Chew on that for a while.

Chew on what? Likely misdirection? Either you're telling the truth and you're an asshole, or you're lying. And possibly still an asshole.


Vote Eloth

Fast-forward 24 hours (nothing of note in between), and we have a vote on me. This is better reasoning (couldn't get worse than zero, though). I'm not sure why he thinks Bek and Ay are a mystery, unless he agrees with Ryll's theories - but this is something he picks up again below.

Skintick, on 27 March 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Karosis, on 27 March 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

There are around 8 people in the middle poster category. You are just picking a random number and going along with it. Last game we had a scum that played just like you (Liosan) ie top poster and one that low posted. So why not pick Omtose or Trake? You know the whole scum hiding in the low poster routine? Your reasoning for voting is bullshit. My reasoning for voting you has been laid out over the last five pages by various people. All points I agree with.

Yeah, pretty much. Not entirely random - got be somewhere in the middle posters, but after that I close my eyes and point to a name. Silchas already struck me as a little off before that, so that was nice.
As for the case against me - I believe it is, 'he's said some things which could be scummy.' As if that couldn't be said about absolutely everyone here I'm just an easier target for that because I have more posts. Perhaps you should be thinking why I feel free to post however much I want.

Everyone here should feel free to post however much they want. I've no idea why you'd think that was something we should dwell on in particular in your case.

And no, at this point, I'm not sure if everyone here could be considered to have said some things which would be considered scummy. A lot of people really haven't said anything at all (yes, I'm in that group).

Anyways, the Silchas vote is what looks bizarre and suspicious, especially considering that we've got something of a mystery with Bek and Ay, and you seem content to randomly lash out. I constantly get the feeling you're trying to deflect from yet someone else entirely, but I can't quite put a finger on who.

Vote Ampelas

So Skintick wants to lynch Eloth again, twice. This strikes me as pretty blinkered (note, not necessarily scummy, but I wouldn't say good town play either). Only he's not sure which one of Ay or Bek is Eloth, and doesn't volunteer to try and help find out.

Skintick, on 27 March 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

If you removed me defending myself today, you'd have very little left, and all the arguments were just the same questions being repeated over and over again. We have 26 alts here. I know we can't have a proper discussion on everyone, I know that. But of the four who received attention today, two are the same as yesterday: Ryll, and New Eloth. Another is the Jester and there is NO POINT in them even being considered for another lynch, and yet some people were seriously suggesting that.

There's no real conclusive evidence as to which of Ay Estos and Bek Okham is Eloth or Aranatha, to me. Or I'd say repeatedly speed lynch whichever isn't the Jester, to get our first 100% CF.

These final two posts come after I've declared that Silchas, Skin, and Ultama are worth looking into more closely. Skintick, could you kindly step back a bit? It's just that your sweat is starting to drop onto me.

Skintick, on 27 March 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

OK, let's look at this post very carefully:

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

You people can be very strange, you know that? Why on earth, if I was scum, would i draw attention to myself with a new, fairly baseless vote?

And for those asking why would he do that with the cases our there already - you make it sound as if there's soooo much information on thread when there is not. The thread had gone stale and I wanted to draw other people into the conversation.

Several of you sound so big headed when you have no right to be. Because you've done nothing so far, nothing at all. You haven't even stooped to think why I would do such a thing aside from to regurgitate Karosis.

I could easily have kept my head down and not posted at all. Or just immediately hopped on Ryllandaras or Ay or Bek and ignored everything and everyone else. But I didn't. Yeah, very scummy.

I will change my vote later. As I said I was happy to do. But I'm also fine with a lynch of me. Unlike other CFs thus far, mine will be definitive about what I am.

I just wish more of you would actually pause and really think about it.

So ... we're supposed to think about that random vote on Silchas.

And Ampelas emphasizes about how there's no information in thread ... so we're supposed to really think about his random vote on Silchas, and how his CF would give us pause for thought.

See, this ... this was designed to imply that Ampelas is a Finder. I mean, he's being pretty obvious about it. Heavy handed, even, with the implication of outside information.

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

I find it astonishing how some people seem to think that RI is not an important role. It is the foundation of mafia. It is the role which, when people have it, they should not be afraid to come and speak out, because they know they have no ability to protect and help town with behind the scenes. It is the role for which posting on thread is meant for more than any other. And as such of course it would be in a game celebrating mafia.

And then we have this, where he's practically screaming that he's actually RI.

Seriously?

Skintick, on 28 March 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 28 March 2013 - 12:27 AM, said:

I'm going to be taking a look and posting analyses of Silchas, Skintick, and Ultama over the next couple of hours.

I'm not looking to sway voting in a different direction - I think it now has to be one of me or Ryll today. But these are the guys who hopped on me, and I think they're worth taking a closer look into.

Totally not a martyr complex.

Totally.

[Monok Ochem]

Mockra, on 28 March 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 28 March 2013 - 01:31 AM, said:

I know others have brought this up, but here it is in hopefully a more concise form (if not, then ignore it. I need to write things down for my own review of the day).

Amp is very set on painting people a certain way, and when confronted with it (such as, but this person actually had a role coming from the opposite of what you said), he dissembles and tries to shrug off the comments, even saying role descriptions probably have little to do with a person's actual faction, contrary to what his own statements indicate. To be fair, he seems to take the approach that the actions of roles are more telling than the role's alignment in its original setting. So this accusation alone is not enough to pin down Amp.

Amp is also very big on writing himself off as RI. Now, while I have already stated how I feel about RIs in this game, I would hazard that openly claiming RI status is a different animal in a game where everyone has three alts/three lives. We have already seen one role, Eloth's, that powers up the longer it is ignored. Using the RI claim, Amp is telling us to go after other people who are obviously more powerful than him, and just leave him be, it's not like he's a threat in this alt.

And people like Mockra seem to stand by him in this regard. I am sorry. In this type of game, we need to assume that everyone is roled, everyone has a disastrous power, and no one is an inno just humbly using the only powers they were given, talking and voting.

These are reasons enough for me to challenge Amps assertions and attempts at appearing indifferent. His willingness to toss aside an alt seems fake and forced to me.

Is it really going to take a town lynch of an obvious RI role to convince you? I think you are an idiot for being pigheaded about this, it's a waste of time. Our options for lynching today are quite shit and you being hung up on the 'everyone must be roled' thing is wasting even more time. If it comes down to it, I will vote Amp because I'm pretty sure he is RI at the moment and that's possibly the only way to get it through your skull is if it's in front of your and other less vocal but nontheless idiotically stubborn faces. At no point did it say in this game that everyone will have a fancy non-RI role, it's fucking stupid to assume it doesn't exist in this game. You think it's worthwhile to lynch Amp for a stupid and possibly suspect vote? Fine, go forth and conquer if you can, but stop acting like the only roles in this game are power roles when there is no way for you to know that for certain.

You are so worked up over this RI thing Mockra. I'm not sure what to make of that. I mean, it seems like you are simultaneously defending and distancing yourself from Amp. Same team? I wonder (though you are making a pretty blatant connection, which is evidence against the idea in mafia).

As for arguing over this "pigheaded" concept, I ask you, what have you done for your game thread lately? Care to ignore me (if you think I'm shit) and move onto something with more content rather than riding that high horse?

[Ampelas]

Omtose, on 28 March 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Vote Ryllandramanthiaus


I think we will get more info from this lynch based on the amount of pushing back and forth between he and Amp.

Eh?

[Monok Ochem]

Omtose, on 28 March 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Vote Ryllandramanthiaus


I think we will get more info from this lynch based on the amount of pushing back and forth between he and Amp.

Ah ah ah! That won't do at all. Give us some more thoughts. I have you down on my notes as a non-entity player. I don't like those.

[Mockra]

D, on 28 March 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

I guess I'm disagreeing if you are parlaying your reasoning to anyone other than Ampelas who has had inconsistent statements and is on the block and is thus worthy of suspicion with his claims. If they are solely directed that way, then I agree in principle.

But you also said you don't believe in a player with less than a BP, then you went healer, then you further clarified and stated that you believe people have at least "fun" roles. You still neglect to accept something I know fundamentally to be true, so part of your reasoning is based off of logic I know to be faulty and if you don't care about that I wonder WHY you don't care.

Moving goalposts...

You know, someone can't really complain about people volunteering information when they've inadvertently volunteered a tonne of information themselves can they?

[Monok Ochem]

You do kind of have a martyr complex Amp....

That being said, I do like that you are getting busy with some fresh cases. Doesn't dissuade me from your case yet, but hey, good work

[Monok Ochem]

Mockra, on 28 March 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

D, on 28 March 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

I guess I'm disagreeing if you are parlaying your reasoning to anyone other than Ampelas who has had inconsistent statements and is on the block and is thus worthy of suspicion with his claims. If they are solely directed that way, then I agree in principle.

But you also said you don't believe in a player with less than a BP, then you went healer, then you further clarified and stated that you believe people have at least "fun" roles. You still neglect to accept something I know fundamentally to be true, so part of your reasoning is based off of logic I know to be faulty and if you don't care about that I wonder WHY you don't care.

Moving goalposts...

You know, someone can't really complain about people volunteering information when they've inadvertently volunteered a tonne of information themselves can they?

^

[Silchas Ruin]

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

I find it astonishing how some people seem to think that RI is not an important role. It is the foundation of mafia. It is the role which, when people have it, they should not be afraid to come and speak out, because they know they have no ability to protect and help town with behind the scenes. It is the role for which posting on thread is meant for more than any other. And as such of course it would be in a game celebrating mafia.

You do realize that Mafia 99 was made to be basic and celebrate RIs, therefore this game is meant to celebrate not the basics, but great roles.

[Mockra]

Monok Ochem, on 28 March 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

You are so worked up over this RI thing Mockra. I'm not sure what to make of that. I mean, it seems like you are simultaneously defending and distancing yourself from Amp. Same team? I wonder (though you are making a pretty blatant connection, which is evidence against the idea in mafia).

As for arguing over this "pigheaded" concept, I ask you, what have you done for your game thread lately? Care to ignore me (if you think I'm shit) and move onto something with more content rather than riding that high horse?

Calling me down off my high horse is rich coming from you. As is suggesting that I'm the one who's worked up, given how long you've been harping on about there being no RI roles in the game. And suggesting a connection between me and Amph at this point in the game is laughable, because if there is one, I don't know about it. Interesting that you think that people in the same team necessarily know each other though.

What I have done for the game is irrelevant, stick to the discussion at hand, sunshine. But given that you keep redefining what RI is and what constitutes an RI role, I doubt you can manage that.

[Monok Ochem]

Mockra, on 28 March 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 28 March 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

You are so worked up over this RI thing Mockra. I'm not sure what to make of that. I mean, it seems like you are simultaneously defending and distancing yourself from Amp. Same team? I wonder (though you are making a pretty blatant connection, which is evidence against the idea in mafia).

As for arguing over this "pigheaded" concept, I ask you, what have you done for your game thread lately? Care to ignore me (if you think I'm shit) and move onto something with more content rather than riding that high horse?

Calling me down off my high horse is rich coming from you. As is suggesting that I'm the one who's worked up, given how long you've been harping on about there being no RI roles in the game. Actually, I double/triple task pretty well. You'll notice that I've been doing a lot of other things other than discussing RIs... And suggesting a connection between me and Amph at this point in the game is laughable, because if there is one, I don't know about it. Interesting that you think that people in the same team necessarily know each other though. I guess you are forgetting the whole Eloth thing or the fact that Amp keeps bringing up that scum all know each other.

What I have done for the game is irrelevant, stick to the discussion at hand, sunshine. Irrelevant? How so? You RI and above scrutiny? And didn't you want me to drop the RI discussion? SOOOOO CONFUSED But given that you keep redefining what RI is and what constitutes an RI role, I doubt you can manage that.

Ah, finally, material to work with. Thanks!

[D'riss]

Monok Ochem, on 28 March 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

Mockra, on 28 March 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

D, on 28 March 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

I guess I'm disagreeing if you are parlaying your reasoning to anyone other than Ampelas who has had inconsistent statements and is on the block and is thus worthy of suspicion with his claims. If they are solely directed that way, then I agree in principle.

But you also said you don't believe in a player with less than a BP, then you went healer, then you further clarified and stated that you believe people have at least "fun" roles. You still neglect to accept something I know fundamentally to be true, so part of your reasoning is based off of logic I know to be faulty and if you don't care about that I wonder WHY you don't care.

Moving goalposts...

You know, someone can't really complain about people volunteering information when they've inadvertently volunteered a tonne of information themselves can they?

^

Ha.

[D'riss]

RI's aren't above scrutiny, so I don't see why you keep saying that. The RI's would probably be on both town teams, so identifying them would help when it came to a town v. town battle when scum and SK were eliminated.

[Monok Ochem]

D, on 28 March 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 28 March 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

Mockra, on 28 March 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

D, on 28 March 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

I guess I'm disagreeing if you are parlaying your reasoning to anyone other than Ampelas who has had inconsistent statements and is on the block and is thus worthy of suspicion with his claims. If they are solely directed that way, then I agree in principle.

But you also said you don't believe in a player with less than a BP, then you went healer, then you further clarified and stated that you believe people have at least "fun" roles. You still neglect to accept something I know fundamentally to be true, so part of your reasoning is based off of logic I know to be faulty and if you don't care about that I wonder WHY you don't care.

Moving goalposts...

You know, someone can't really complain about people volunteering information when they've inadvertently volunteered a tonne of information themselves can they?

^

Ha.

I guess you won't need that hug now.

[Mockra]

Monok Ochem, on 28 March 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

Mockra, on 28 March 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 28 March 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

You are so worked up over this RI thing Mockra. I'm not sure what to make of that. I mean, it seems like you are simultaneously defending and distancing yourself from Amp. Same team? I wonder (though you are making a pretty blatant connection, which is evidence against the idea in mafia).

As for arguing over this "pigheaded" concept, I ask you, what have you done for your game thread lately? Care to ignore me (if you think I'm shit) and move onto something with more content rather than riding that high horse?

Calling me down off my high horse is rich coming from you. As is suggesting that I'm the one who's worked up, given how long you've been harping on about there being no RI roles in the game. Actually, I double/triple task pretty well. You'll notice that I've been doing a lot of other things other than discussing RIs... And suggesting a connection between me and Amph at this point in the game is laughable, because if there is one, I don't know about it. Interesting that you think that people in the same team necessarily know each other though. I guess you are forgetting the whole Eloth thing or the fact that Amp keeps bringing up that scum all know each other.

What I have done for the game is irrelevant, stick to the discussion at hand, sunshine. Irrelevant? How so? You RI and above scrutiny? And didn't you want me to drop the RI discussion? SOOOOO CONFUSED But given that you keep redefining what RI is and what constitutes an RI role, I doubt you can manage that.

Ah, finally, material to work with. Thanks!

Snark away, you're still wrong and wasting time with the no RI thing.

[D'riss]

I'm always game for a hug. Especially long uncomfortable hugs where you both aren't sure when to break it off so the back-slapping just kind of tapers off and you gradually lean away and avoid eye contact.

[Ampelas]

Ultama now. An interesting one, is Ultama. 8 posts, but arguably more content than either Silchas or Skintick when they do post.


First, the vote on D'riss for not voting. I don't agree with it, but I can see where the suspicion comes from.

Ultama, on 26 March 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

D, on 26 March 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

And with that glorious last note, I'm done for the evening. Won't be around for lynch.

("That's not townie behavior." Rabble rabble rabble.)

Toodles.

And after it has just been pointed out that it will be hard to get a lynch you choose to leave without a vote.

vote D'riss

Below is a response, volunteering their own conclusions, to me wondering if Denesmet might be one of the double alts. Again a reasonable response, and, as Denesment had garnered zero pressure, I don't think this qualifies as a defence either (and, of course, with their death, it seems right now that Denesmet was/is probably town).

Ultama, on 26 March 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

I don't think Denesmet is one of the double alts. After all, why would you concentrate on just one alt without having the other writing at least a check in post? I think it's more likely that someone just told PS his alt order and then had no time to post in the game thread.

Another reasonable reasoning posts. I had wondered something similar myself.

Ultama, on 27 March 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 27 March 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

Mockra, on 27 March 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 27 March 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

So, you guys are serioously discussing the possibility of twiddling your thumbs and waiting to see if a now-dead alt has a residual power to control lynches?
without even knowing whether or not that power was carried over to this game?


wow, *golf clap*

Hahahaha this post.

Well I now feel certain the Ay Estos isn't lying. Thanks Bek

I'm neither gonna confirm nor deny. I see no merit in stirring up the wifom any further.

With your refusal to confirm or deny Ay's claim, you are just doing that, stirring further wifom. If his claim to be the jester is true, why would you not confirm it? And if his claim is not true and you are the jester, then why would you keep quiet?
But maybe Ay's claim is true and you were formerly Eloth and you are scared that you get lynched second time right away and try to keep the waters muddied to avoid that.

The vote on me. Ultama admits that the case on me is weak, but sees it as a better option than Ryll. Not much I can argue with there, for better or worse.

Ultama, on 27 March 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Here for a bit.

I don't think scum would act as retarded as Ryll is doing.

The case against Ampelas is more interesting, but shaky. But together with his out of the blue vote for Silchas it makes it imho a better lynch than Ryll.

vote Ampelas

And here is more expansion on why they don't agree with a Ryll lynch.

Ultama, on 27 March 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

Bendal Home, on 27 March 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

Ultama, on 27 March 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Here for a bit.

I don't think scum would act as retarded as Ryll is doing.

The case against Ampelas is more interesting, but shaky. But together with his out of the blue vote for Silchas it makes it imho a better lynch than Ryll.

vote Ampelas

You do realize that the reason that he is acting retarded is because I have been on his ass from the moment that he made a mistake. It is called riding him. It causes scum to make mistakes. Then you can verify that they are scum and lynch them.

As far as Day 1 retardedness goes that might be true, but his Day 2 retardedness seems to have little to nothing to do with you pressuring him, as far as I can tell. And his insistence on weird theories that no one agrees with seems not like something scum would do.

What I would say about Ultama is that they need to try and get involved more. They clearly have a brain and good deductive reasoning - the only hindrance is that they haven't so much independently taken it on themselves to look over something. There are too few posts currently to make any reasonable decision on what side of the fence they're on, but much more than Silchas or Skintick, they strike me as town. I've been known to be wrong many hundreds of times, though