[Gothos]

Allright, I've not much time right now so I'll have to be brief. In short, I liked the book.


The longer version? Well.
For the good, I'd have to say that ICE is simply fabulous at introducing new cultures and continents, just as he did for Korel in Stonwielder. Jacuruku, and especially Himatan and the Thaumaturgs are excellently presented as concepts. The "living" jungle, the last outback, the last hinterlands... The entire plot with the Thaumaturg army was, imo, brilliantly done to present it. As far as Thaumaturgs go, that different kind of magic and focus than warrens or holds, masters of the body and the mind, along with all the evil going on in their lands as well, it felt just right for what I was expecting after their brief cameo in RotCG.
There's also quite some screentime for my namesake, so it can't be bad

As for the bad... well. Yet another book goes by and I still Skinner totally sucks, he seems so simple and straightforward, and there's no qualities I could spot that could give him the following he got. He blunders on and on and wins through mostly thanks to Ardata's Gift. Skinner is a humongous letdown.
I also completely hated the bits with Osserc, despite them involving Gothos. I thought they were simply poorly written, very poorly, way too vague and thus losing any sort of essence. I didn't much like the whole thing with a light cult either. Seems that both Skinner and Osserc are ICE's characters, and he keeps stumbling with them, despite doing pretty well with many others. It also seems to ring true for T'riss, I simply don't care about her as a character at all, and she was way more interesting in Forge of Darkness with a brief visit than with a whole storyline here. Ah well.
Another thing I'd mention is that it seems ICE seems to need some time to find his "writing legs" (as in sea legs etc) after starting each new book. His writing seems to have slumped after Stonewielder. To be quite honest, he reminds me a lot of Tolkien - he's great at presenting (and probably also building) a world/setting, but characters and dialogue leave a lot to be desired.


Also, if I ever see the word cyclopean again I'll retch.

[Sinisdar Toste]

but i think you've got it pretty right when it comes to ICE. great worldbuilding, dialogue and characterization not as great. skinner i actually liked in this novel, but he still comes off pretty flat. the final resolution of WTF-with-that-armor was cool, but a little understated, which seems to be a perennial problem with ICE. and while the osserc and gothos stuff was obscure (or maybe obtuse), i loved every day of it.

[worry]

I think he can be hit and miss with characterization, with some pretty awesome triumphs (SW was full of them, for instance), but yah Skinner and K'azz stick out like sore thumbs for me. If they started out blank canvases, he still hasn't filled in the first quadrant for either of them.

This post has been edited by worrywort: 20 January 2013 - 06:29 AM

[Seiko]

I wasn't too disappointed with Skinner. Though it's hard not to improve on him after RoTCG. He came off sort of like I imagine a young Kallor being. Albeit less interesting. Limitless ambition. But actually gave a shit about the people under his command. His characterization wasn't really weaker than any of the other ICE characters. That just doesn't seem to be his strong point. I suppose the hints and mentions we had of him pre-RoTCG from Erikson and what not, I can understand thinking he's a disappointment, but meh, you could say that for the Crimson Guard as a whole under ICE.

Gothos, on 19 January 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

For the good, I'd have to say that ICE is simply fabulous at introducing new cultures and continents, just as he did for Korel in Stonwielder.

Agreed. I think Himatan is in my top three Malazan settings. I'm really looking forward to what he does with Assail there. More so than the Crimson Guard resolution.

This post has been edited by Seiko: 20 January 2013 - 02:48 PM

[Tatterdemalion]

Man, it's been a while since I posted.
But I finally finished B&B!

That said, I think ICE's dialogue is just fine - if not as funny as SE. I think Worry's got it right re: characterization.

Here's the key, though. He is not successful at weaving mystery into the story without making you mad. So much of his books are explaining new locations, cultures, people, etc. that the forced vagueness of storylines like Osserc's and K'azz's stand out and are aggravating. In the MBotF this is not so because they are a continuum (sorta) and lead you on and on. I think the missing 'characterization' is a thinness we find in 'mysterious' characters who try to act mysterious. Lord knows we have lots of those in Wu.

But, say, Murk was a fine character. I thought Jatal and Anadanii were both great new characters. Scarza. Etc. Just maybe not so much Ardata, K'azz, Osserc, etc.

[Aptorian]

Is this a bot?

[Traveller]

I dont kmow but I like the thread title.

[D'rek]

Aptorian, on 16 July 2020 - 03:53 PM, said:

Is this a bot?

Yes. Purged now.