[Primateus]

Assail, on 28 May 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

Primateus, on 07 May 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

Nicodimas, on 02 April 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

I do like the idea of if you turn in a gun you don't owe taxes for that year..that would be a good one.

That's ridiculous. Far more realistic and fair to be allowed to deduct the value of the weapon (as new) from you taxes when you turn it in. But to get exempt from taxes for a whole year just for turning in one firearm?

Like I said, ridiculous!

You're basically pushing people to give up something that has always been guaranteed to them by their Constitution and a tax-exempt year as recompense is 'ridiculous'? Not that I agree with it at all, but your values seem way skewed here.

What is this I don't even

My values are not at all skewed, if you'll allow me for a second though, you seem to be putting words in my mouth when I said nothing of the sort!. I am NOT pushing anyone to give up anything. This is merely offering a, like Defiance said, monetary incentive to turn in your weapon to proper authorities who will either destroy the weapon in a responsible manner instead of the citizen just selling the weapon to "a random person" where you basically have no idea what it will be used for.

This is, theoretically, a responsible manner for you as a citizen to get rid of a weapon you no longer want or feel you need and bonus, you'll get a tax deduction at a potentially higher value that what you'd get if you just sold it to whomever. And if you feel you want to keep your firearms, well, with this system noone will force you to give up your precious guns. Everybody wins and your sacred gunrights remain inviolate.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Didn't we discredit gun buybacks as being not worth the effort a few pages back? I made a good effort at proving they were a meaningful, cost effective contribution to the fight against gun violence, but according to some very prominent economists (can't remember the names off the top of my head...they're upthread a bit...conversation between me and Balroglord), buyback programs are more of a political tool than anything else.

[Darkwatch]

I find this a rather sobering article (NOTE: this is not to diminish what happened in Boston, but only to highlight the dangers closer to home)

Quote

Toddlers Killed More Americans Than Terrorists Did This Year

Americans hate terrorists and love our kids, right? So you might be shocked to know that preschoolers with guns have taken more lives so far this year than the single U.S. terrorist attack, which claimed four lives in Boston.

This is admittedly tongue-in-cheek, but one has to wonder if the NSA’s PRISM program would have saved more lives had it been monitoring toddlers – or gun owners – rather than suspected terrorists.

11 Deaths in Five Months Where Shooter Was 3 to 6 Years Old

Listed below are the 11 gun fatalities I found where a preschooler pulled the trigger (from Jan. 1 to June 9, 2013). Starting with a list of five toddler shooting deaths The Jewish Daily Forward published in early May, I unearthed six additional cases. This tragic, unthinkable event has happened every month, like clock-work.

Jan. 10: 6-year-old playmate shoots and kills 4-year-old Trinity Ross, Kansas City, Kan.

Feb. 11: 4-year-old Joshua Johnson shoots and kills himself, Memphis, Tenn.

Feb. 24: 4-year-old Jaiden Pratt dies after shooting himself in the stomach while his father sleeps, Houston.

March 30: 4-year-old Rahquel Carr shot and killed either by 6-year-old brother or another young playmate, Miami.

April 6: Josephine Fanning, 48, shot and killed by 4-year-old boy at a barbecue, Wilson County, Tenn.

April 8: 4-year-old shoots and kills 6-year-old friend Brandon Holt, Toms River, N.J.

April 9: 3-year-old is killed after he finds a pink gun that he thinks is a toy, Greenville, S.C.

April 30: 2-year-old Caroline Sparks killed by her 5-year-old brother with his Cricket “My First Rifle” marketed to kids, Cumberland County, Ky.

May 1: 3-year-old Darrien Nez shoots himself in the face and dies after finding his grandmother’s gun, Yuma, Ariz.

May 7: 3-year-old Jadarrius Speights fatally shoots himself with his uncle’s gun, Tampa, Fla.

June 7: 4-year-old fatally shoots his father, Green Beret Justin Thomas, Prescott Valley, Ariz.

At least 10 more toddlers have shot but not killed themselves or someone else this year (see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here). In the first three cases, the shooter was only 2 years old.

I also found nine instances where children and teens 7 to 19 years old accidentally killed themselves, a family member or friend since January (see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here).

Of course, most if not all of the above deaths and injuries can be attributed to careless adult gun owners.

While this analysis focuses on children, another equally accurate headline could read: “U.S. Gun Culture Kills More Americans Than Terrorists Worldwide.”

In 2010, 13,186 people died in terrorist attacks worldwide, while 31,672 people were killed with firearms in America alone, reports CNN’s Samuel Burke.

We Need a Return to ‘Well-Regulated’ Gun Ownership

We cannot deny that guns pose a real danger to innocent American lives and especially to children. While no one is “coming to take the guns” of responsible people, we still must reach a compromise to address gun violence. I do not have all the answers, but I know as responsible citizens we have to do something.

While some people refuse to accept any limits on gun ownership, we simply do not have the right in America to circumvent personal restrictions that protect society as a whole. We can drink and we can drive, but we cannot mix the two. We have free speech, but we cannot shout “fire” in a crowded theater. We have the Fourth Amendment, but we still submit to searches of our bodies and belongings for the sake of air safety.

People who worship the Second Amendment should recognize the “well-regulated” aspect of gun ownership that the forefathers intended. Instead, we have a gun lobby that pays off senators to vote against background checks and gun culture that welcomes a 3-year-old as a lifetime NRA member. I worry for that child’s playmates.

Follow the author: @LiberaLLamp on Twitter – On Facebook

Sources: The Jewish Daily Forward, CNN

Source (for all those links that didn't copy)

[Lucifer's Heaven]

I am just going to put these hilarious videos right here for you all to enjoy and maybe hopefully learn a little from, because we here in Australia didn't used to have the stringent gun control laws that we do now.

[Lucifer's Heaven]

Excuse the double post it was the only way to embed all three.



For anyone wondering (and my apologies if this has been explained already, I skimmed much of the thread), our gun control laws are crazy tight.
Only hand guns are allowed to be kept in the house unless you live on a rural property (they are allowed for pest control, because good luck using much else to take out a kangaroo). If you don't live on a rural property you must be a member of a registered gun club to be able to get your gun license. Guns other than handguns can be owned by people in non-rural areas, but they are kept locked up at the gun club you belong to.
Every weapon must be licensed.
Licenses are a fair bit of work to get.
Any gun kept in a house must be kept in a bolted down safe hidden from plain site, and the ammo must be kept in another safe (this is often accomplished by having a second smaller safe within the first). No one except the licensed owner may know the code for the safe.
Using your weapon in self defence is not allowed.
You are responsible for the whereabouts of your gun. Not reporting if it is stolen is serious and if it is then used in a crime, you are in trouble.

So on and so forth.

[Lucifer's Heaven]

That's cool, happy to explain as best I can
(I'd normally research this and get back to you with a really solid answer, but I don't have time at the moment, maybe later if someone doesn't beat me to it)

"Self-Defense" is not an allowable reason for owning a gun for a start.
Part of the measures for the safe, especially keeping the ammo under a separate lock is to make it time consuming to access. If you already had it out and someone pulled a gun on you and you shot them, you may get away with it, or at least a reduced sentence.
However, if you hear a noise down stairs and you go and get your gun out of it's safe... That is a big problem. If that scenario ends with you killing them, even in self defence I believe you are looking at jail time. Not as much as straight up first degree murder, I don't think, but still jail-time.
And you'll most likely lose the gun (even if it doesn't end up in you killing anyone).
I don't own a gun, I have used guns out on some farms, but not beyond that. I know some of the rules around them, as I know people who do/have owned them. So the specifics of self defence with a firearm is something I am conjecturing on, but the general rule is simply put as "no, it's not okay or acceptable".

We also have escalation of force laws. I don't have a complete understanding of them, but essentially there are very hard questions asked if you up the ante in a confrontation, even if you're defending yourself. If someone threatens you with a punch up, and you pull out a knife things get complicated. It can be justified, but it's not as simple as "I was defending myself", "oh, okay then, it's all good".
And it's a huge step up that escalation ladder if you pull out a gun. If it can be considered justified at all it'd be under pretty extreme/unique circumstances.
(again, I don't have full knowledge on this, so I could be a bit off with some of it)

[Nicodimas]

I think the best thing to do for America is push a aggressive policy of self defense in schools. Since the government runs these places we could place gun courses in Grade school, this would benefit the majority of Americans as these children will be able to protect us against foreign invaders and terrorists . We need to remain vigilant and train the generation on how to protect America. We are going to have multiple enemies in this next generation that we must defeat and conquer and as a good American we can do it. Do you believe in America? If you do and its upstanding policy that the Government institutes you will too agree with the forthrightness of these projects.

There will be several benefits to these programs including:

Gang control
Drug control
Community control

and being a amazing citizen on the Governments agenda. The government has your best interests at heart.
http://rt.com/usa/mo...griculture-006/

We should all follow the important plans this government is going with as social control is all about a better America. Support America as you support the people.

[Malaclypse]

Lucifer, on 10 July 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

Excuse the double post it was the only way to embed all three.



For anyone wondering (and my apologies if this has been explained already, I skimmed much of the thread), our gun control laws are crazy tight.
Only hand guns are allowed to be kept in the house unless you live on a rural property (they are allowed for pest control, because good luck using much else to take out a kangaroo). If you don't live on a rural property you must be a member of a registered gun club to be able to get your gun license. Guns other than handguns can be owned by people in non-rural areas, but they are kept locked up at the gun club you belong to.
Every weapon must be licensed.
Licenses are a fair bit of work to get.
Any gun kept in a house must be kept in a bolted down safe hidden from plain site, and the ammo must be kept in another safe (this is often accomplished by having a second smaller safe within the first). No one except the licensed owner may know the code for the safe.
Using your weapon in self defence is not allowed.
You are responsible for the whereabouts of your gun. Not reporting if it is stolen is serious and if it is then used in a crime, you are in trouble.

So on and so forth.

That's funny - in Canada, it's relatively easy to obtain and possess hunting weapons (rifles/shotguns) legally but handguns are very tightly-controlled (trigger-lock, locked case, ammo stored separately, must be on your way to/from a shooting range if you are transporting it, etc.). The rationale being handguns are easily concealed and aren't much use for hunting/pest control, more likely to be used on other people. I don't quite grok how it could work the other way round. It looks like you are saying that a rifle/shotgun has to be stored at the gun club? Are you sure about that? As a person that's shot pest animals a fair few times (skunks, feral cats - believe me they are among the worst pests you can have on a farm!, coyotes, etc.), I can't imagine anyone thinking that it would be a better idea to do it with a handgun than with a rifle?!

[Lucifer's Heaven]

Malaclypse, on 14 August 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

That's funny - in Canada, it's relatively easy to obtain and possess hunting weapons (rifles/shotguns) legally but handguns are very tightly-controlled (trigger-lock, locked case, ammo stored separately, must be on your way to/from a shooting range if you are transporting it, etc.). The rationale being handguns are easily concealed and aren't much use for hunting/pest control, more likely to be used on other people. I don't quite grok how it could work the other way round. It looks like you are saying that a rifle/shotgun has to be stored at the gun club? Are you sure about that? As a person that's shot pest animals a fair few times (skunks, feral cats - believe me they are among the worst pests you can have on a farm!, coyotes, etc.), I can't imagine anyone thinking that it would be a better idea to do it with a handgun than with a rifle?!

You are of course right about hunting pests and that's where the "unless you live on a rural property" part comes in.
The laws for keeping and using guns are different out in the country compared to in the city. I believe the same laws apply for handguns, but shotguns and rifles are also allowed (though no assault weapons at all). You are allowed to use them for killing pests (good luck killing a big kangaroo with much else) and you can fire them on your property.
I'm not positive of the specifics around how they have to be kept, but I believe it's a bit less tight. I think people other than just the owner are allowed access to them and stuff. I have fired both a shotgun and a rifle out in the country, but this was quite a few years ago so I didn't ask about how they had to be kept.

I see where you're coming from on not allowing people to take home concealable weapons, and I'm not entirely sure of the logic behind it, but whatever it is it seems to be working. It may have just been a concession for the sake of gun enthusiasts.

[Gnaw]

Lucifer, on 10 July 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

Not reporting if it is stolen is serious and if it is then used in a crime, you are in trouble.

Since somebody necro''d this anyways.


That one. I just cannot fathom the resistance to that one. It doesn't seem to me to be a gun control issue of any sort. I have numerous family members who are against it though.

The only answer I've gotten that makes any sense is from an older neighbor, "I've got several more guns that are valuable collector's items. The asshole who did the B&E found a beat up Springfield 30-06 that I kept on the back porch to shoot coyotes. If I had included it in the police report then there's a public record that I potentially have more guns that old." I can see his point but personally I would have included it on the report as "old 30-06 hunting rifle make Unk".