[Tristan Jay]

Hey fellow Malazan readers, I knew it would be a long haul, and I got sick toward the end which dragged it out even longer. If I hadn't gotten sick, I think my progress would have impressed even me, as a very slow reader. I had a burst of speed for something like a 50-70 page stint, covering the winding down action with the Chain of Dogs and what happened after, Kalam murderously awesome run through Malaz to his goal, and some of the stuff at the Azath house. The last 20 pages dragged for 3 days, but only cause my eyes were sore and watery, and I was generally exhausting. Not quite the way I expected to cross the finish line, but in some sense it also echoes some of the hard doses of reality that emerged with Duiker and Pormqual.

Although I liked the bulk of the book, and it really had me with what went on with Coltaine, the wrap-up with Pormqual was a different matter. I get that it's a dose of realism that hints at sullying Coltaine's epic accomplishments, it felt like a tonal shift. The moment of capture and the way Korbolo Dom treats his POW's and Duiker felt like the book cross the event horizon of tragedy and entered the realm of full-blown psychological horror. I would have had harsher words to say if there hadn't already been some foreshadowing of how awful Korbolo Dom is. And I didn't get the solid payoff with the appearance of Irp and Rudd for several days afterward because of my health issues, the only hope was the enigma of the jar the was brought by that Warren-hopping High Mage-Merchant.

Deadhouse Gates was a hugely beneficial book for the characters of Fiddler, Kalam and Apsalar. I never disbelieved the things said about Kalam in Gardens, but seeing what he can do was great fun. It was neat to see that the book was able to give Apsalar a meaningful journey that helps the reader settle into what she is now in terms of attributes, memories, and personal choices. And Fiddler, he really shines, given a chance to operate on his own and not as one half of a double act (not knocking the double act!) a lot of intriguing character beats with him; but at the end of the day he has this endearing sense of...something (I want to say modesty? Self-deprecation?) that rides along side by side with a respectable level of competence. Fiddler is not quite the living, breathing, walking weapon of mass destruction like Kalam (or Icarium!) but he definitely comes across as solidly dependable. I was pleased and laughing when I wondering, and looked back in Gardens to see that Fiddler is the one who Dujek yells at for leaving his sword lying around unattended in a puddle! Despite all that Fiddler shows us his capabilities, there's that echo of Dujeks lament "The man's a hopeless legend!" every time I think about Fiddler. He's a clearly cemented himself as a favorite.

Thinking very carefully about it, and having a second book to compare that is generally considered the stronger, I think I find my preference leaning toward Gardens, I liked that better than Deadhouse. Is Memories of Ice as tragic as Deadhouse, or more cheerful...does Memories shift into psychological horror mode? I'm planning on reading it, mind, I would just like to have a general impression going in.

Random thoughts on the future books, with some general readership comments in mind. Memories of Ice is held in such high esteem, but I'm a realist, I'll let that book have breathing room going in (I won't go into it like a 20+ year old Star Wars fan going into The Phantom Menace expecting The Second Coming), I want to be fair to the book and let it have the chance to win me over. House of Chains seems to disappoint some readers, so I predict that it might surprise me and be a personal favorite or at least well liked (given that I'm favoring Gardens over Deadhouse by a tad). After Memories of Ice, I'm most looking forward to seeing the what 3rd setting jump into Midnight Tides will be like, and then seeing how it all comes together in The Bonehunters.

I must rest and read the shorter fiction that's on my reading pile after 836 pages of the Malazan world. I didn't get tired of it (or hardly ever) so being able to sustain my attention in the face of all the other reading material that I like to keep up on is impressive. My plan for Memories of Ice is for the summer (which I've moved forward from just hitting that one at the end of next year) on the strength of Deadhouse's ability to hold my attention and allay my fears of it's intimidating length. So, summer it is, and this is a fun approach from a pscyhological standpoint, I'm going to read it during summer because that's the season of blockbuster entertainment. All the big movies, the long vacations, the excitement...I think that's going to be a great way to triumphantly return to Genabackis, Paran, Wiskeyjack and all those others.

This post has been edited by Tristan Jay: 13 December 2012 - 02:52 PM

[Khellendros]

Hi!

Always love to read new opinions

Interesting that you preferred GotM - something of a rarer opinion that But it sounds like you did enjoy the vast majority of DG. To try and answer your question without spoiling anything at all for you, MoI is probably more similar in style and tone to DG than GotM - I don't mean this because of what happens, but in the sense that Erikson has moved on as a writer from GotM, which was written a fair few years before DG and MoI.

I promise you will find lighter moments within MoI, but there is a lot of dark there too. Ultimately, it's about the overall experience, and of the first three books, I personally found MoI the most finely structured and emotional (both in uplifiting and heart-bursting ways). There are themes of horror, yes, but they do not overwhelm the book. For me, it came down to the personal characterisation, which has always been a strong point of Erikson, and it is pretty incredible in MoI.

As for the other books you mentioned, yes, HoC often seems to disappoint first-time readers of it. I find this is for two reasons: Because a lot found MoI so great, it was hard to live up to that standard; and because there are parts of it which don't make complete sense until you read the later books. As such, however, it is one of the strongest books on a re-read. I found the same to be true of The Bonehunters, in both ways (because again, Midnight Tides is ridiculously good - if I had to choose the book which reads the best as a standalone novel, it is probably Midnight Tides).

Keep reading, it'll be worth it, and I hope your health is better!

[Tristan Jay]

Khellendros, on 13 December 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

To try and answer your question without spoiling anything at all for you, MoI is probably more similar in style and tone to DG than GotM - I don't mean this because of what happens, but in the sense that Erikson has moved on as a writer from GotM, which was written a fair few years before DG and MoI.

I promise you will find lighter moments within MoI, but there is a lot of dark there too. Ultimately, it's about the overall experience, and of the first three books, I personally found MoI the most finely structured and emotional (both in uplifiting and heart-bursting ways). There are themes of horror, yes, but they do not overwhelm the book. For me, it came down to the personal characterisation, which has always been a strong point of Erikson, and it is pretty incredible in MoI.

Very nicely put, I would say that helps give me a picture of what to expect, tonally. It's a curious thing, why I reacted to and classified the two events that way, but it's clear in my mind: Coltaine's stand in sight of Aren was a sublime, magnificently crafted piece of tragedy; almost a rapturous experience. And it shed a light on myself as the reader, and the conversation that I got the impression Steve Erickson intended to go on between author and reader. It was a metafictional experience because I felt like there was a sense of indictment on the part of humanity's practice of telling stories to move each other, and the characters are at the mercy of our sympathies as much as the Acendent Gods of the Malazan world play games with these characters. The characters, the Acendant Gods, and us (reader and author) on different levels of reality interacting together.

But the Pormqual situation and Duiker's more empty fate intruded on that, was jarring. Maybe that's why it went beyond beautiful tragedy to become a horror. It communicated to me in a different way, but it was less transcendent. Meaningful, meaningless; I'm still processing it to a degree. It felt like after I had "got it" with Coltaine, Erickson tried to outdo...perfection. Which marred perfection for me a bit, like a step to far. It sort of does and sort of doesn't ruin the Coltaine event, if that makes any sense. It didn't ruin the whole book by any stretch, and mercifully the scene shifted back to Kalam and Fiddler's activities, but it was a note of discord.

Khellendros, on 13 December 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

As for the other books you mentioned, yes, HoC often seems to disappoint first-time readers of it. I find this is for two reasons: Because a lot found MoI so great, it was hard to live up to that standard; and because there are parts of it which don't make complete sense until you read the later books. As such, however, it is one of the strongest books on a re-read. I found the same to be true of The Bonehunters, in both ways (because again, Midnight Tides is ridiculously good - if I had to choose the book which reads the best as a standalone novel, it is probably Midnight Tides).

There's no doubt I'm looking forward to MOI, I'm glad to be a step closer to reading it! And Midnight Tides is the next one I'm most looking forward to (for the life of me, though, I couldn't say why).. Deadhouse Gates has left me with enough investment to want to see what the next stage is for that setting and collection of characters, so I'm okay with that in between MOI and MT.

Quote

Keep reading, it'll be worth it, and I hope your health is better!

I think I'm finally getting there (I hope, I hope). Thanks.

This post has been edited by Tristan Jay: 13 December 2012 - 04:59 PM

[Khellendros]

Tristan Jay, on 13 December 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Very nicely put, I would say that helps give me a picture of what to expect, tonally. It's a curious thing, why I reacted to and classified the two events that way, but it's clear in my mind: Coltaine's stand in sight of Aren was a sublime, magnificently crafted piece of tragedy; almost a rapturous experience. And it shed a light on myself as the reader, and the conversation that I got the impression Steve Erickson intended to go on between author and reader. It was a metafictional experience because I felt like there was a sense of indictment on the part of humanity's practice of telling stories to move each other, and the characters are at the mercy of our sympathies as much as the Acendent Gods of the Malazan world play games with these characters. The characters, the Acendant Gods, and us (reader and author) on different levels of reality interacting together.

But the Pormqual situation and Duiker's more empty fate intruded on that, was jarring. Maybe that's why it went beyond beautiful tragedy to become a horror. It communicated to me in a different way, but it was less transcendent. Meaningful, meaningless; I'm still processing it to a degree.

Very nicely put yourself! I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head with what intentions (one of them, at least) Erikson had with these books.

As for Pormqual and Duiker, well, just remember that this is only the second book of a ten-book series (not including Esslemont's novels too), so what happens here is not necessarily the end of the matter. You can trust in Erikson that what happened there will have profound resonance later.

I would say though that what happened with Pormqual had to happen. The deficiencies brought in by the nobility's rise into military command positions, and Laseen's too-late cull of it, are encapsulated in the weak, sniveling figure of Pormqual, and brought to a stark conclusion.

It is perhaps funny to think that even considering all the characters who do immoral and even unspeakable things in Erikson's works, Pormqual is perhaps the most hated by the forumites here. And probably by a long stretch too. That incompetency and weakness, which is something rarely seen in Malazan characters (as in, those belonging to the Empire), rather than outright evil, really seems to have grated on people

[Abyss]

Based on your posts so far, MEMORIES OF ICE is going to blow your mind.
Trust us.



And also, welcome! When you have a moment, please be sure to submit the mandatory blood, tissue, cerebellum and hair samples, non-refundable deposit and completed next of kin form.

[worry]

I think MOI might make you feel every single possible emotion at one point or another, horror included, but everything wonderful too. You also get sight, smell, touch, hearing, and taste. Furthermore, you get all five tastes: salty, sweet, bitter, sour, and umami.

It's the fifth novel, Midnight Tides, that actually comes closest to horror again, but in that case it's more like a horror novel as a whole. Also, it's awesome.

That said, keep in mind despite the end of this book, nihilism is not SE's game. And MOI is the first bloom in that regard.

[Use Of Weapons]

Spoiler

Lady Envy = umami, right?