Silencer, on 07 February 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:
I always found solace over the "why the fuck aren't I hitting him?" syndrome of the skill-based combat in Morrowind, in assuming that this was more an accurate representation of: my skill with the sword vs the opponents' skill at dodging/parrying.
It makes a lot of sense, actually. Just because you are *aiming* at someone and it looks on the screen like you should be hitting the target does not mean, in real life, that you would be landing a hit. In many ways it is a much more accurate representation of both the difficulty and skill inherent in melee combat. To me, the dichotomy of "100% goes where you're pointing attack" and "hold to block" is incredibly simplistic. While the appearance of the Morrowind combat system is obviously seriously lacking, and indeed frustrating (won't ever argue that one), from a, roundabout, "realism" and roleplaying perspective, it is much, MUCH more comprehensive and deep. Even if you have to use your imagination to make it anything other than really annoying.
This simplification is, I feel, very much a "console generation" move - the decline of the Elder Scrolls games (again, like Defiance, I actually love Oblivion and Skyrim) comes in their move towards "action" and away from "RPG". The instant gratification of twitch-based FPS...you can see its influence no more clearly than in the revamped combat system of Oblivion compared to Morrowind. Is it less frustrating? Sure! And the combat was sooo annoying in Morrowind. But is it better? Not really, no. All it did was swap frustration for boredom - there is no real influence of your skills on attacking, there is no variation in the attacks (power attacks do not count, they are stupid and should not exist), and there is no provision for your enemy to dodge, or counter you. That is not "improved". The direction they should have focused on was the animation - to make what happened on the screen reflect what was going on behind the scenes - rather than on the base mechanics (and even then, to say they "focused" on the base mechanics is implying that taking all complexity out of it and making it "click to hit enemy" is in some way BETTER, rather than just simpler/easier/more pointless).
I am addressing this point first because...No. Jus-just, no..
You haven't made me cringe so much in post in a long time Silencer
I... It's actually kinda hard to explain why this is so wrong. I'm no master, but I'm good enough that you should trust me on this
You're right that very high level mellee combat is pretty nuanced. But a very large amount of it is actually just trading blows and blocks/parries. With the defensive half being the harder part. If you spent the game fighting master swordsmen, I might agree with you that it's more "realist" (though I'd still cringe a little), but in reality you spend much of the games killing wolves, brigands, random monsters, town guards and half-arsed soldiers. For a military like the Imperial one, the sort of fine combat control you are thinking of would be fairly uncommon, rare even. Most of their training would be focussed on group fighting, taking orders and that sort of thing. High levels of swordsmanship aren't very useful when sandwiched between people (likewise, guards, if faced with a competent swordsman would probably be trained to stall and make noise till overwhelming numbers arrived). You've read Malazan, you should know that
While oversimplified, Skyrim's is actually a more realistic version. Messy angry fighting. Not bad, not unskilled, but not subtle. Lots of overpowering, pushing back and beating you're opponent down. Brutal and aggressive. That's probably the sort of fighting a Norse styled race would employ on bandits and the likes.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's too simple, but it's an improvement over Morrowind. Best fighting like this I've come across in a game though, is Risen, hands down. Best version of player skill based RPG combat. It's essentially an improvement on collision based fighting like Skyrim's. You could dodge sideways or backwards (and had to use the right dodge for the right move:dodge sideways for lunges, back for sweeps, etc). Blocks without a shield were semi-directional and short lived (so basically parries, and you couldn't block thrusts/lunges without a shield). As you levelled up your relevant fighting skill you did more damage with that weapon and you gained new ways to use it in a fight. When you first grab a big branch off the beach to kill a big arse bird all you can do is crappy clumsy overhand swings. I stuck with the staff till the end, and by then I could thrust, lunge, sweep, parry, counterattack and carry one swing into another with less break, essentially doing combos. Controls were pretty simple, and you were taught stuff slow enough to get used to it as you went. I could utterly destroy monstrous warriors from a fighter culture, and yet if I just walked in flailing I could get the shit kicked out of me by some crappy bandits or a few wolves. Those latter two were easy by the end with a little attention, but the point being that they still required a little attention.
Also, enemies had different "fighting styles" as it made sense. Wolves were usually in a pack and would try to circle you. They could also, sensibly, only do lunge attacks, which is leaping in to bite. So after fighting a few wolves you knew to always be ready to side dodge and to stop them circling. Big troll things did lots of huge wide sweeps, so back dodges and lunges worked well. Those monstrous warriors had parries and lunges and combos like you did, so fighting defensively to give yourself an opening was a good tactic (as was magic, if you had access to it)
In short, it was awesome
Maybe I'm wrong, but the "numbers in the background then dictate visuals to represent result" system wouldn't be very resource heavy would it? In fact I imagine it could be pretty resource light. It would require a lot of possible permutations for outcomes (if you didn't want it to feel too "canned"), but once set up it would simply be a "die roll" followed by an animation that's pre set to go based on the outcome and the positions of those involved. Provided you set up a big exhaustive list of situations, it would just be selecting the animation that goes with those criteria off a "shelf" or pre-prepared animations.
I have a much more limited knowledge of programming than I do of sword fighting though
Like a few others here I am very much in the camp of "I love lots of the improvements, but they have come at a high cost to other great parts".
I like the voice acting, but by necessity it greatly reduces all the idle chatter and lore tidbits and gossip you could get off NPCs (actually that's one of the only improvements that directly comes with it's own tradeoff). I love the classless system. NPCs doing shit, and all the improved graphics is good. I think the stats needed an overhaul, but they took too much away. Perks add a lot, but at the same time they took away quite a few skills. I miss Jump
It why I said when Skyrim was launched that what I really want, is for someone to remake Morrowind in Skyrim. Not just the continent, the content. But do it as a best of both worlds. No classes, have perks, add in missing skills (and make some perks for them), Skyrim combat (possibly take one of the improved combat mods), port over all the NPC conversations in text (and the story), put all the missing spells back, keep the new ones and add back in all the equipment slots. Possibly other stuff, but you get the idea.
Also, I'm sorry to show you this, but I feel obliged to:
"
The buildings of Alinor are said to look like they are "made from glass or insect wings." If the Summurset Isles are traversable at release will we see a design reminiscent of this? And will we see the Crystal Tower for that matter?! - By Callum Parker
When The Elder Scrolls Online launches, the playable part of the Summerset Isles will be Auridon, the big island between Summerset and the continent that includes the cities of Firsthold and Skywatch. The architecture of the High Elves is fanciful, certainly, but it’s also practical, constructed of real-world materials. Architects can’t make buildings out of poetry! - Offical Response from a Q&A"
Fuck you TESO Devs, they are a race of natural mages AND one of the best light armours in TES games is glass armour. Which means touch, sturdy and probably flexible (in the way metal has strength because it isn't brittle, I don't mean flexible like cloth) glass is a "real-world material", and that's without the magic part.
Gah! They really do have a lot of great game play mechanics and ideas (and are taking a lot of good ones from other places), but it's stuff like this that is making me so pissed off
(there is a lot of stuff like this) I mean it could still look like an awesome place, but that's a retarded response and worries me that they just plan to do standard high elf architecture.
Help
Silencer, get on that for me! 
